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Originally Posted by Trevor60


As you live in Texas you have the heat as an additional condition benefit. The heat taxes your body more then a air controlled fitness club and you body has to overcome the heat as well. trying doing your workout outside.




This has been studied and found not to be the case, in fact, if you are training for an activity top be performed in a cooler climate, it is a training distractor/impediment.

Also, VO2 Max is a very poor predictor of work capacity, unless you plan on running on a treadmill, which is typically how it is measured. There is somewhat of a correlation, but it is weak and hardly predictive

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I just don't see how limiting the O2 you get during training will help for hunting. I seem to recall that professionals were shifting to workouts at low elevations to get the most out of a workout and sleep in a chamber simulating high elevation to get the red blood cell benefits. Best of both worlds. In my opinion, you want good workouts to build better muscle and endurance. Once you get to the mtns, just adapt slowly. The stronger you are, the relatively easier the effort will be and better aerobically will make the most of what O2 you have. So, lose weight (less to haul), get stronger, and get more aerobically fit. No substitute for hauling a pack around too (stair wells work well), as there are many small muscles in the shoulders are uniquely worked by a pack, and you get stronger and more fit at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Trevor60
I have seen the snorkel idea as there are a few MMA fighters that train that way. Sena or Cena sp had a video interview where his workout regiment included the mask and snorkel. You would look silly with just the snorkel LOL.

The principal behind the snorkel is oxygen deprivation what it does is limit the amount of O2 you get in your blood stream requiring your body to utilize a higher percentage of oxygen from the limited amount of air intake.


I've never seen any information that substantiates the benefits of this, have you? I think you're talking about Wanderlei Silva training with the mask, the last fight he had, this was mentioned but the announcers even said they thought it was bogus.



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Perhaps short training in low oxygen stimulates erythropoiesis (red blood cell creation) which in tern allows more hgb to be available to allow for more oxygen to be attached thus making each breath more efficient.

The question is how much oxygen deprivation leads to a body system change.

My bet is that snorkels don't work and that's why Lance doped for the tour. If all it took was snorkel, I bet he'd have done it.


�Some people hear their own inner voice with great clearness. And they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy�or they become legend."--Jim Harrison


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I don't know how much it correlates to using the mask/snorkel, but I can tell you that after performing whilst being deprived of oxygen, and then returning to a normal level, will make you feel like Super-Man. Asthma attacks opened my eyes up to that pretty quickly....

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Originally Posted by Ed_T
Originally Posted by Kevin_T
Actually, I think TAK's assessment is pretty on for the most part. I'll admit, I have not done CF in a couple of years, and now I'm starting to notice it. I need to get on some more of the strength stuff. I have done a lot of heavy walks /hikes lately though at 75 - 126 lbs loaded in the pack. In my opinion, I'm faster with two loads at 75 than one load at 126. With 75 , I'm ok and probably hike at an average hiking speed of 2 MPH up and 1200 feet or so of gain per hour. At 126, I crawl practically. At 100, I'm in between, but there is a noticeable drop off above 75 lbs. My ideal, is to be able to two load 175 lbs from 3 - 5 miles back. Of course, during a hunt adrenaline helps, and I just don't have adrenaline for a heavy hike.

At altitude in big country, I think CF lacks some of the endurance focus. I like to do a few 20 mile plus days in the mountains every year, and it seems to help a lot. There really is no substitute for a good 8 hrs or more moving.


I very much agree that the 8+ hours of moving is also a necessary component... Preferably with moderate weight and in the mountains.
Fully agreed! Moderate work loads for a long time, IMO, more fully mirror a backpack hunt. However, that component is the most difficult to replicate...especially living in Indiana.

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I also live at sea level and like to hunt high. I've gone back and forth on this and try to experiment with something new every year. Last year I basically did main site crossfit with stadium runs mixed in. I did pretty well in the mountains but I feel like I could have done a bit better (having a newborn at home didn't help since sleep was at a minimum and training time was short).

This year I pretty much stuck to powerlifting for the first few months of the year. About 4 months out from the season, i.e., now, I'm transitioning to more endurance training. I just started one of the programs from Gym Jones and like what I see so far. It essentially has 3 smoke session weight training days mixed in with 2 long cardio days and two rest days. I'll use one of the long cardio days to do stadiums for 60-90 mins. The one thing I don't like about CF for hunt prep is that it mentally prepares you that it's only going to suck for 20-30 minutes. I found myself going like a bat out of hell on the mountain for about that long and then I started looking for a break. This Gym Jones program sucks for longer, which may address that mental conditioning. I just don't know if one can train for a long day of suck in 30 minutes.

You all need to evaluate your needs as a hunter when it comes to your training. If you're carrying everything on your back, you will need to prepare for those loads. If you're headed out with a guide and a daypack, I'd focus more in on cardio & endurance. My hunt will be on horseback so the hikes will be hours, not days in duration and the load on my back will be light. I'm training accordingly.

I also found a way to get to altitude a few days earlier this year for which there is no substitute.

As for the snorkel, I don't think you'll see a real benefit. I asked a cardiologist friend about wearing a gas mask and he said that while I helps strengthen your diaphragm (as I recall), it does not simulate less oxygen- it just makes you work harder to get it.


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The snorkel keeps coming up..

I work pretty hard while abalone diving (breath hold diving only), and a snorkel doesn't restrict breathing at all.

IMO, get in shape, watch your gear weight, and acclimate.


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Originally Posted by Woodhits
As for the snorkel, I don't think you'll see a real benefit. I asked a cardiologist friend about wearing a gas mask and he said that while I helps strengthen your diaphragm (as I recall), it does not simulate less oxygen- it just makes you work harder to get it.


Exactly right, the other claim that the Training Mask people make is that it increases the surface area of the alveoli, allowing you to take in more oxygen with each breath. I read their web page and the paper they cited. The training mask was developed to train firemen who have to breathe through SCBA's which puts a strain on their pulmonary system.

It appears to help with that, but the limiting factor with altitude is not the surface area of your alveoli for oxygen exchange, it's the surface area of red blood cells in your system to hold the oxygen and circulate it to your muscles. The Training Mask does nothing for that.



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I like to take up smoking in the off-season to put some stress on my lungs. Then quit right before hunting season starts. You'll be angry all the time, but you will breath so much better...

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Originally Posted by Take_a_knee
Originally Posted by Trevor60


As you live in Texas you have the heat as an additional condition benefit. The heat taxes your body more then a air controlled fitness club and you body has to overcome the heat as well. trying doing your workout outside.




This has been studied and found not to be the case, in fact, if you are training for an activity top be performed in a cooler climate, it is a training distractor/impediment.

Also, VO2 Max is a very poor predictor of work capacity, unless you plan on running on a treadmill, which is typically how it is measured. There is somewhat of a correlation, but it is weak and hardly predictive


Heat training i would kindly disagree. Yes there has been numerous studies and the reports i have read support my assertion.
While hot, humid air holds less oxygen (similar to altitude training) the stimulus doesn't reach that same level of effect b/c you're not in the heat 24/7. Even though the heat leads to increases in the level of blood plasma,assuming you are working out at the same level poached from another board .
the study was about the two groups of cyclists in 2010 that conducted heat training.

http://shodless.com/running-in-the-heat/summer/

VO2 capacity i am not quite following your statment you don't believe VO2 is a good indicator or you can't test for it... pulled off of wiki VO2 max (also maximal oxygen consumption, maximal oxygen uptake, peak oxygen uptake or maximal aerobic capacity) is the maximum capacity of an individual's body to transport and use oxygen during incremental exercise, which reflects the physical fitness of the individual.

i am always willing to learn could you direct me to your reference which state V02 is a weak predictor.

bottom line if you body is more efficent in training aerobic excerise and you use other tips and tricks to up your efficenices (heat training) it is free and available to the OPs)) you should be able to perform better in the cooler climes and manage the altitude.

All the best Trevor


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