Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Winchester 1895 Vs Savage 1895

Ok already I need to ditch these cloverleaf 88's for a 99 E in .308. Do I need to liquidate my 30 Gov SRC and my 30 Army also?

Wouldn't carry one to Armageddon myself. Darn magazine!

Angus

I operate a retirement home for 30 Gov cals rifles. Will take them off your hands at no cost to you. Promise to keep them fed a few rounds on a regular basis, regular walks in the woods on their retirement farm and keep them clean, oiled and rust free. GW

Not positive what you are asking for here but here is my opinion. They are very different in the way of chambered calibers as the Winchester was designed for different cartridges than the Savage: .30 US (.30-40 Krag)and initially two black powder calibers with the .38-72 WCF and .40-72 WCF. Later .303 British, .30-'03, .35 WCF, .405 WCF and .30-'06 along with the Russian musket orders. It was chambered for the biggest smokeless Winchester calibers in repeating lever guns until replaced (along with the 1886) by the Model 71 in .348. I think the earlier thread about Model 99s and 88s is different as they may have been in more direct competition caliber wise. I like 1899/99s.


I'm interested in the "leap" both designs made with rotary and box magazines rather than the tube magazine. I'm often told by guys that an 1895 Winchester can be a hard sell, but the nice ones are kind of hard to find and I know a bunch of guys that collect them. One drawback to most of the Winchester 1895s, for my tastes, is if it doesn't have a factory installed receiver sight a guy is schit out of luck if you want more than a rear barrel sight (and want to keep it original). Otherwise I really like the Winchester 1895 Sporting Rifles, but you can keep the carbines and muskets...they are just flat out ugly in my opinion not really my favorite look.

Brad



Ditto

Any pre 1964 88 should buy you close to a dump truck load of 308 99 E's

If you want to understand what sets the 1899/99 family above all other lever actions ever made, I'd set you sights a little higher than a high quality birch wood stocked mass produced 308 E, unless you need a truck/boat gun that could double as an emergency pry bar, jack handle, hammer, or boat anchor.

I like the Winchester 1895 carbines and have two of them in 30-40 and 303.

They're as good as any bolt gun if you're hunting from a stand. If your out and walking about not so much. That damn magazine gets in the way of a comfortable carry hold.

If manufacturers knew what a big deal this is they'd all be making rifles round on the bottom, like a 99. With the longevity of the 99 and the Winchester 94, I'd speculate that the ease of carry is a BIG factor in a rifles long-term appeal, coupled with dependability of course.

I agree that the 1895s are heavy and don't balance well, but they were probably the most powerful non-bolt action repeating firearm in their day.

I know that the 1895s in 303 were popular in the Eastern Township of Quebec, as my Uncle lived in Bedford, QC, and several members of his hunting camp shot them.

I have read that Winchester dropped the 1895 in the mid-1930s because of lagging sales volume, during the depths of the Great Depression, and because people kept blowing up the 30-03 and 30-06 versions when firing 8x57 ammo in them. I assume that the 8x57 ammo was WW1 GI bring-back, but don't know 'cause that was awhile before I was born.

I've personally never hunted a Win 1895 but have held one several times and to my mind they would be an awkward carry. I know that there are those that hold them in high esteem but I just can't get there. The Savage M1895/1899/99 are just so elegant and carry friendly that I have to question why someone would prefer a Winchester 1895. The 1894 is a different matter but since its not scope friendly and given that my eyes are getting old I'd rather pick up an already D&T 99. Given that you mount a proper scope for the rifle they still carry well.

Can't understand why someone would fire 8X57 in a Win M95 since they're not even close to any of the cartridges that the M95 was chambered in.

The Winchester 1895 is no more scope friendly than the '94. The scope still has to be offset due to top ejection.

And your point is....? Did I post that the M1894/94 Winchester was scope friendly prior to the angle eject? IIRC I said that the M1894/94 carried better than the M1895. Maybe I didn't spell it out that well. The Savage M1895/1899/99 scopes much better and is much more carry friendly when scoped than any Winchester lever gun and the scope is properly mounted parallel to the bore.

I have hunted with both of my Winchester 1895 carbines and they are a little heavy and don't carry as nicely as other lever action rifles, but as noted previously, they were chambered for more powerful cartridges than most of their competition.

Prior to WW2, telescopic sights were the rare exception, rather than the norm as they are today, so a rifle being "scope friendly" or not wasn't really an issue for most people when they were making a buying decision. You would think, given the low cost and significant increase in potential accuracy improvement offered by receiver mounted peep sights, that they would be much more common on rifles of the pre-WW2 era than they are.

IIRC, most of the 1895 Winchester sporting rifles made were sold prior to 1920 and Savage didn't introduce a cartridge that was in the same neighborhood power wise as the 30-40, 303, 30-03, 30-06, etc. until the 300 Savage was introduced in 1920. It may be possible that the introduction of the 300 Savage cartridge in the Model 99 ate into the Winchester 1895's market share and contributed to its termination in 1936. Over the forty or so years of production there were only around 125,000 sporting rifles made, compared to around 300,000 military rifles made for Russia.

The 1895s in 303 British were popular in Canada because of Canada's relationship with the U.K. and the popularity of ex-military rifles in 303, Enfield and Ross, and the ammunition was available in even the most remote areas. I believe that the Remington Lee, Ross 1910, and Winchester 1895 were the only common sporting rifles chambered in 303 British and the 1895 was the only non-bolt action option.

I don't know why anyone would purposely fire a 8x57 cartridge in a Winchester 1895 either, but I have read that doing so was a contributing factor in Winchester's decision to discontinue the Model 1895 in 1936. People do stupid things all the time, always have, always will, it is just human nature. For example, meth users know what meth is made from and they still knowingly/willingly put it into their bodies. Explain that bit of stupidity to me.

I know one time me and a friend were shooting on the same bench and I inadvertently tried to stuff a 30 06 aka 30 government into my 8x57 mauser. Now I load my 30 06 with barnes xlc (blue boys) and try to pick only one or the other of those calibers to shoot at a time. Same with the 300 sav and 308 win.

I'm due for something really stupid myself, like 338 Federal in the 308. That's the problem with necking up the brass, even the headstamp's sCReWeDd up.

Since we're all expressing opinions, mine are as follows:
- Nothing carries better than a Winchester 94
- The Savage 99 is the most elegant lever action rifle ever made.
- The Marlin levers are rock solid and scope friendly.
- The 1895 Winchester/Browning clone can handle the '06 length cartridges and thus offers the greatest power/trajectory options.

FWIW, I own a number of each including a Browning 1895 in .35 Whelen. Shot my first deer when I was 10 with a 99, shot my first bear with a Marlin 1895, killed a lot of deer in between with Win. 94s. Got lots of bolts, pumps,semiautos, ARs.. But, I love the levers most.

I always wanted an 1895 Whinny, once I found out Roosevelt took a couple of 405's to Africa. Sometime after 1995 I saw one on the wall of a tackle shop. Looked too worn to be one of the new ones so I asked if it was an old one. It was bought in 1910, and I got it from the original owner. He was asking $750, but after I called several times he dropped to $500, so I bought it. Shot 1 deer with it, and was thinking about selling it, to buy more 99's. Then we had some black bears move onto the farm. I always wanted to take a bear with it, so I still have it. Mines in 35WCF, Joe.

Can't explain stupid. Agree with most of your points. Agree that the 1895 Win was chambered for the most powerful cartridges available in lever guns until the advent of the .300 Savage. While that cartridge may be passe now at the time of its introduction it was the equivalent of the contemporary 30-06. Back then the 30-06 would launch a 150 gr bullet at about 2700 fps. So would and still does the .300 Savage. Improvements in powder has put the 30-06 well ahead of the .300 Savage these days. On the other hand, If you have a modern bolt gun chambered in .300 Savage that will handle the pressure of the 30-06 you can handload the .300 Savage and end up right back in the ballgame.

I agree that being "scope friendly" wasn't an issue prior to the early '50s or so. Fact is that the only reason my first 99 was D&Ted was because my Dad's vision was going south back about '65 or so and so he followed the conventional wisdom back then.

30-40 Krag would be 30 Government.

I do not believe so..... The 30/40 was also called by winchester as the 30 U.S. and or the 30 Army. The 30 government was what winchester called the 30 06. People would confuse the U.S. with the government hence the later 30 Army designation.