Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 454 Casull vs bigger calibers question

Uh, not really.

Jacketed bullets were created first to allow the ammo companies a way to get around leading in magnum revolvers and feeding issues in autos, since "hardened" lead was basically lead/tin.

Halfway reliable expansion with jacketed bullets in handguns was many years and miles later. Bear in mind getting a reliable jacketed bullet from a powerful rifle didn't show up until 1948.

If you really want to do some damage with a handgun, lead alloys will provide it, at the high end or the lowest end, but its not a "one size fits all" proposition like many folks demand.

Like so many things, getting the best things in life isn't always about money, but its always about work and effort....

In an earlier post here there is a claim made by a man that shot "crater" bullets through a stack of 6 feet of wet newsprint at 100 yards.

While I'm not claiming this is a "lie" I would sure like to understand more of this event. I've shot through a lot of stuff in my life especially when I first got my 458 Lott. I rather doubt that my 458 Lott could shoot through 6 feet of wet newsprint at 100 yards. Wet.... damp? News print can be very difficult to penetrate in length. It tends to stack and compress very well. I don't think I have ever shot through even three or 4 feet with a rifle. Maybe I have heavy duty news print here?

This guy claims he did this with a 420 grain bullet at 1600fps from a 45/70.

My 458 Lott was shooting 2300 with a 500 grain bullet. Even the solid tungsten bullets would not likely go through 6 feet of stacked news print. I'm not sure anything you can fire from the shoulder will! Now maybe there was some kind of placement of the paper that was unique, or wet to the point of pulpy paper or other unknowns.

I guess the point I'm making here is that " If you read it on the internet it must be true right?"

Something way fishy about a story like that and it does nothing to improve the credibility of the rest of the story which may actually be accurate. I tend to throw the whole set of ideas out the window when there is such a high level of simply unbelievable content.

You may want to get some of these calibers and try some testing yourself before you claim others may be lying. Penetration within that slower velocity range has been documented time and again. A 45/70 will out penetrate a 458 win mag. I have a copy of American rifeman where a guy took a marlin 45/70 after cape buffalo. Using the garret load(relatively slow velocity), he shot through the first Buff and hit a econd almost completely pentrating that one too. Both buff were cleanly taken. High velocity kills game, but so does low velocity. High velocity is not a magic slayer of animals.

Hope everyone here has a very merry Christmas!!!!

The thing with handguns is you can choose either a large dia shallow wound i.e. a hollowpoint and no exit, or a smaller dia deeper wound i.e. cast bullet in and out.

Honestly I don't think you'll see a significant difference in killing power between a 250 and 300 gr cast bullet at 1000-1200 fps. They'll punch a hole clean through with a ~1 1/2 to 2 inch diameter wound channel. The animal will lay down and die in time. If you really want to anchor the animal then take out some bone.

As far as meplats, the larger dia meplats will disrupt slightly more flesh but you might find for peak accuracy it's easier to work up a load with a smaller dia meplat.

Bringing this thread back from the dead because i have sold my .454 and switched to a 629 Smith 44 mag 8". I need some help with choices on bullets.

I want to kill whitetail deer under 50yds with open sights. My past has not been good with bloodtrails with HP bullets in .454, so that's why i am looking at Cast FP's.

Please critique my choices here and which should do the best job for what i have in mind. All will be handloaded.

1) 240 gr XTP (had a bunch of these loaded already @ 1300 fps.)

2) http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=CP44%2F255PB

3) http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=CP44%2F300

4) http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/details.php?id=91

5) http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/details.php?id=90

I am trying to understand this wide meplat thing. The Cast Performance 255 gr. has a .350 as opposed to everyone's .340.

Am i better off with a heavy 300 gr. with a .340 meplat or a lighter 255gr. with a .350 meplat? I can load them to whatever velocity would be best.

I realize shot placement is everything, but i need a bloodtrail as i hunt in thick northeast woods.

One side note--the very first bullet i tried in my old .454 was a 300gr. win. JFP. This bullet gave me the best bloodtrail and reaction (deer fell down) then got up and walked away (could not get another shot). I lost the blood trail after 300 yards in a snowstorm, but found the deer another 100yds away the next morning.

I switched bullets because i thought with such a big bullet the deer should not have gone far. That got me trying hollow points at faster/slower velocity's, now i am beginning to thing i need to come back to FP's.

Thanks in advance.

Your problem will be the ability of the 629 to handle 300 gr + boolits. Recoil can damage the gun. I would say 265 gr is tops. It is not velocity or pressure in the S&W, it is heavy recoil with parts inertia.
A good 265 gr like the Ranch Dog and a decent meplat at around 1300 to 1350 fps will be where it is at.
I find no difference between a WLN, WFN or RNFP.
The 429421 Keith under 1400 fps will work. Water dropped WW boolits work.
Once you shoot too fast you can go to maybe 75% WW's and 25% pure lead but water drop them.
The Ruger can shoot heavy but I top out at 330 gr for accuracy with the 1 in 20" twist. The Lee 310 gr is golden cast with WD, WW's. Either will mess up deer with short runs and huge blood trails. These boolits might be too heavy for a S&W. I never shot the enhanced S&W. The gun needs a harder unlocking pin in the center of the cylinder and a stronger cylinder lock spring. After that, you can shoot heavy boolits.
The .44 is perfect as long as you don't look for 1500 fps or use light explosive bullets. The 300 gr XTP will work (NOT THE MAGNUM BULLET.)
I would go with the 265 gr and put 22 gr of 296 behind it with a Fed 150 primer. That should kill a deer FAST and do down to 1/2" at 50 yards with the S&W. It will do the job to 100 yards.