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Moby1 Offline OP
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We have a 11 month old Border Collie who was house trained very quickly. She rarely had an accident in the house, and only if we missed her signals to be let out.

For the last two weeks or so, she has been peeing and pooping in the house, as if it is, in her mind, the place to do it. She could be out all morning, then come in and pee or poop.

We are at our wits end. We have tried scolding her and making her stay out longer, but nothing seems to be working. When we clean up, we always use a strong scented cleaner, but nothing seems to be working. Luckily, we have tile and hardwood floors with no carpeting.

I would be truly appreciative of any and all advice on how to put an end to this behavior. If anyone has successfully cured this , please share your experience.


Patrick

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Have you tried going out with her, waiting and watching till she does her business then praising and rewarding for doing it in the RIGHT place?


Most folks just give them hell for doing it in the wrong place.Its negative reinforcement, but its the only reinforcement she's getting....


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Yep, be with them outside and praise them for going. Haven't had a problem with the youngest since April and I still praise him when outside with him.


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It's crucial that you don't make this issue an emotionally charged one for your dog. The very best approach is to never give her an opportunity to make a mistake. This means she's NEVER in the house unless constantly supervised (preferably on a leash), or in a small enough crate that she would find it distasteful to soil its floor. All other times, she's outside.

When supervising her in the house, learn to see the signs and the times when she will need to go (and provide plenty of short visits to the yard), and at that time take her out and praise her for doing her business outside.

Now here's the hard part: If she makes a mistake, exhibit no emotional response whatsoever. Merely pick it up and clean it up, otherwise ignoring it. If you attach any emotion to it, it adds complexity to the task of housebreaking that you don't need. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by ingwe
Have you tried going out with her, waiting and watching till she does her business then praising and rewarding for doing it in the RIGHT place?


Most folks just give them hell for doing it in the wrong place.Its negative reinforcement, but its the only reinforcement she's getting....


I think it helps if you go too while you are out there.


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Pretty good advice from TRH...with the exception of putting the dog in a crate. Very much of that at all makes a Border Collie neurotic....but the advice of paying attention and not putting the dog in a position to fail, then ignoring a bad event is all crucial.

Its not rocket science, but with a Border Collie you are ordinarily two steps behind the curve.......they are not for the casual pet person.


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My daughter taught me that a dog that is kept outside a lot goes to the bathroom outside will housebreak itself. All my dogs in the house have gone outside automatically. I do have a pet door that makes it easy for them....but Tucker, my cockapoo will, on occasion leave a tootsie roll on the floor. Not often but I just pick it up (with a paper towel) and toss it.

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Originally Posted by ingwe
Have you tried going out with her, waiting and watching till she does her business then praising and rewarding for doing it in the RIGHT place?


Most folks just give them hell for doing it in the wrong place.Its negative reinforcement, but its the only reinforcement she's getting....


Every night before I put her in her crate, I take her outside on a leash and she doesn't waste any time. She goes immediately and then heads in to her crate. I always praise her and pet her when she is finished.

By the way, her crate is a large one, but I have put a plywood divider in it and slowly expand it as she grows, so that she isn't tempted to pee in the far corner of her crate. She has never had an accident in her crate.

I am beginning to think that periodically during the day, I will put her on her leash and maybe trigger a response causing her to pee.


Patrick

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I want to go where they went."
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And on the 8th day, God created the Border Collie.
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
It's crucial that you don't make this issue an emotionally charged one for your dog. The very best approach is to never give her an opportunity to make a mistake. This means she's NEVER in the house unless constantly supervised (preferably on a leash), or in a small enough crate that she would find it distasteful to soil its floor. All other times, she's outside.

When supervising her in the house, learn to see the signs and the times when she will need to go (and provide plenty of short visits to the yard), and at that time take her out and praise her for doing her business outside.

Now here's the hard part: If she makes a mistake, exhibit no emotional response whatsoever. Merely pick it up and clean it up, otherwise ignoring it. If you attach any emotion to it, it adds complexity to the task of housebreaking that you don't need. Good luck.


This is really where we have been wrong. We have been scolding her and obviously we shouldn't be. From now on, she will be outside until we are able to keep an eye on her 100% of the time.

We are going to have to find a way to not show any emotion if she does have another accident in the house.

As I mentioned earlier, she has a large crate, but I have partitioned it with a piece of plywood that I keep moving back as she grows. I will not put her in the crate anytime other that for sleeping though, as that is her place of refuge, her little den. I don't want her to think of it as her prison.

I just wish I knew why she started doing this, as she was a model dog up until a few weeks ago.


Patrick

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die,
I want to go where they went."
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And on the 8th day, God created the Border Collie.
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Border collies crave attention and affection and human contact and approval. They are willing to accept your negative reinforcement of scolding rather than get no attention at all... ( which is why you ignore it and treat it like a non-event when she has an accident...what I call a Focused LACK of attention)


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The fact that she is crate trained you need to use to your advantage. When she comes out of the crate, she goes outside. when she pees, praise her like she just just peed liquid gold. Then she gets play time with you. Take her out and ignore her until she pees. Then you need to get her into the habit of popping after she eats. After play time, bring her in, feed her in her crate, let her outside and wait until she poops, then praise her like the turd was solid gold.

Keep her on a leash tied to your hip while she is in the house. Don't give her a chance to make a mistake.



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Originally Posted by WyColoCowboy
The fact that she is crate trained you need to use to your advantage. When she comes out of the crate, she goes outside. when she pees, praise her like she just just peed liquid gold. Then she gets play time with you. Take her out and ignore her until she pees. Then you need to get her into the habit of popping after she eats. After play time, bring her in, feed her in her crate, let her outside and wait until she poops, then praise her like the turd was solid gold.

Keep her on a leash tied to your hip while she is in the house. Don't give her a chance to make a mistake.



^^^^^^^^

This...Exactly.


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Moby1 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ingwe
Pretty good advice from TRH...with the exception of putting the dog in a crate. Very much of that at all makes a Border Collie neurotic....but the advice of paying attention and not putting the dog in a position to fail, then ignoring a bad event is all crucial.

Its not rocket science, but with a Border Collie you are ordinarily two steps behind the curve.......they are not for the casual pet person.


Ingwe, I appreciate that Border Collies are not for everyone, but Border Collies have been part of my life for so long. Overall this is my sixth Border Collie.

All my other Border Collies, once they were trained never made a mess in the house unless we missed their signs.

My little pup Tikka is not giving us any signs. She used to, but now she isn't.

I am going to try leaving her outside and then every two hours or so, put her on a leash and take her to where she has a pee at night. I don't know if that will work, but it is worth a try.

I am also going to take her and a sample of her pee to the Vet, to see if she has a bladder infection or something.

Ingwe, as you are a professional at dog training,I particularly want to thank you for your advice. To everyone else who responded, a heartfelt thank you as well. I truly appreciate your advice.



Patrick

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die,
I want to go where they went."
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And on the 8th day, God created the Border Collie.
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Hang a bell from the door. Praise her for ringing the bell and go outside with her until she potties. More praise. If you see the potty signs in the house, bump her nose on the bell on the way out and praise her.

A friend of mine trains the guys that train the military bite dogs says a dog has at most a 2-3 second memory. If you don't catch them within this time they don't know what they are being praised or punished for. A clicker will extend this for a few more seconds but overall you need to catch them pooping in the house before punishment actually does any good. The same for rewards outside.


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This just reminds me of why I love labs


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Originally Posted by ingwe
Have you tried going out with her, waiting and watching till she does her business then praising and rewarding for doing it in the RIGHT place?


Most folks just give them hell for doing it in the wrong place.Its negative reinforcement, but its the only reinforcement she's getting....


That's a very polite (and accurate) way of saying that she needs more attention. It's tough with active dogs but you gotta put the time in.


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