Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting PA antler restrictions

Figured you were refering to Eveland in your previous post?

While ACSL and others are touting him as the expert, there are numerous flaws in his figures and even more "flaws" in his resume. He has made claims in his resume that no one else can verify, including PSU.

Also know that Eveland submitted his own proposal for the study funded by the PA Legislative Budget/Finance Committee, but he was rejected in favor of the Wildlife Management Institute, for that deer management review. WMI is a well-regarded entity of long standing and regularly does similar studies for many other states' wildlife management agencies.

The "best" that ACSL and others could come up with in rejecting WMI's findings, was that some former PGC employees (former upper management types, primarily), now work for WMI.

Having viewed Eveland's various web sites, one might come to the conclusion that his primary accomplishments have been self promotion and hyperbole?

I've been a believer in the antler restriction, if you want to shoot bigger rack bucks. In some areas it is making a difference. For me, where I hunt, it hasn't. I killed my best deer just before it went into effect. It was 4.5 years old. I still shoot some nice bucks, but nothing like the one's you fellows are shooting.
A couple things I've noticed. It sure makes it almost impossible to still hunt through laurel thickets and blackberry tangles, which I enjoy. The restrictions almost force me to sit in a tree, which I don't really enjoy. Where I hunt there is a percentage of the bucks that don't have brow tines, so I really need a lot of time to look them over with my old eyes, even with binoculars. When it rains, which it seems to do a lot in rifle season, the dark stained antlers that are common where I hunt make it almost impossible to count points.
As I said, I'm not opposed to them, it just hasn't show any real effect for me, yet, but I'm hoping over time that will change.
Bfly

Having viewed various websites myself, it seems the majority of folks criticizing Eveland have been you or your friends. Im no Eveland fan, but ive seen no one directly debate him, on any topic. Seems to me, his critics are full of self promotion and hyperbole, among other things. That tight knit group of former PGC employees, and others from various organizations, should be looked at with a watchful eye. Theyll go to great lengths to get what they want. Lobbying to lawsuits, and beyond.

Let me know if you're ready for a new crying towel yet. I have a line on some with the Uninformed Sportsmen of PA logo that you can have, cheap.

Im sure you do. I hope you pricks do well, I really do. You got balls, thats for sure. You'd not see my name on the lawsuit. Being 100% serious here now. I hope you and the other dipschits know, had you all even tried to get trespass fixed I wouldnt have given as much grief as I had. Though I still think the cute couple are both arseholes....and Bodenhorn, cant stand him...theres a lot we agreed on. May not seem like it, but its the truth.

In a perfect world, maybe. But under PA AR rules just the opposite will continue to be the trend.

Hypothetical (yet realistic) scenario:

Spring 2011 two buck fawns are dropped by two does on the same hillside. Both fawns eat the same food, drink the same water and walk the same trails. Fall 2012 the first buck is a 12" wide 7 pointer. Second buck is a Y & spike 3 pointer. Monday morning after Thanksgiving both bucks walk by Fudd and he neatly drops the 7 pointer. Fall 2013 the 2.5 year old (former) 3 pointer is now (or maybe not) a legal deer. He is roaming the same hillside with another 1.5 year buck that grew a 12" 7 point first rack. Although the 1.5 year deer is carrying better rack genetics, he is a year younger and 30-50 lbs lighter. He is not going to get breeding rights over the bigger, yet genetically inferior deer. The 3-point genes get spread while the 7 point genes do not.

What I see is that each successive generation of PA whitetail bucks will take, on average, longer to produce larger racks.

Granted, it's only anecdotal, internet info. But I have seen, on our property, more messed up racks since AR than ever........ A 4.5 or 5.5 year 6 pointer, an 18" or 19" wide 3 pointer, a 3.5 year 5 pointer with 4 on one side and a spike on the other, 2.5 and 3,5 year deer with tiny or no brows ........... and on.

So what if the 7 point buck survives his first season?

And, All it takes is one good dominant buck and he will breed most of the does in a very large area.

Your 3 pointer never gets to spread his genetics, ever, the bigger more dominant bucks take care of that, thanks to AR, there will always be a few to get the job done.

Sometimes he will survive. And he will be a quality breeder. But, absent the illegal kills and the few the kids get, ALL the inferior-racked bucks are artificially preserved to grow another year class older and bigger-bodied. True that one dominant buck can do a lot of breeding. But that's a BIG part of my point. The DOMINANT buck is not necessarily the genetically superior buck. Especially in a program that is allowing inferior rack genetics to gain year classes over the better genetic deer which get taken out at an early age.

but if we go back to no restrictions, you don't even get to wait for that 7point you see him the first year as a spike and will never know what he could have turned into

lots of things are people problems. where would that debate end? all the cans and bottles strewn along the back roads during the hunting season werent placed there by anti hunters. im afraid a large part of the hunting population is made
up by this type individual. ive never archery hunted because i took the 1 deer law seriously and didnt want to sacrifice rifle season. that was always a joke among many others i knew. it was even a joke with 1 hollier than thou former game commissioner by name of david drakula. caught after shooting a second deer with his wifes tag on it. yes theres a people
problem and the game commission is run by people also. ask your potter co friends about the deer situation where they hunt.

I haven't read all the responses, so this may have been covered (and I think Yodel touched on it). I also have never been to PA, so take this for what you paid for it.

ARs work well for a few years, but after some time, you start getting those huge 2X2s and 3X3 being the deer who live through the season and do the breeding. I know of a few hard draws in Idaho (Owyhees to be specific) where once drawn, most folks want a good solid 4X4. The general season is 2X3 or smaller, and half of Boise kills 2 points out there. Problem is, once a guy finally gets that any buck tag, they have to filter out the huge 3X3s and 3X4s to find what he has waited so long for.

I know of a 30+ inch wide 2X3 and several BIG 3X3s that have come out of that area the last few years. Not that there's anything wrong with big 3X3s, but the results speak for themselves.

Game departments have to manage for everyone though, and some folks are perfectly happy shooting the first deer they see. Some folks just want to get their kid on a buck, of any size. Requiring kids to pass on a 2X2 and potentially not take a buck may discourage youngsters. I think ARs make sense in some ways, but requiring statewide ARs is not good business IMO.

Ever wonder how that Drakula fellow got caught????

Hint: Higly doubtful he turned himself in. Ya think????


Pottor county will be back. Until then I would think the wise thing to do would be to hunt where they are and not where they supposedly are not. And a lot more than one somebody bought up every Doe tag for the Pottor County unit. Why?

While deer numbers are down in many areas up there, one look at the Potter paper's big buck contests over the past few years, oughta make some wake up?

Bucks that would've won that contest 10 years ago, aren't even in the top 20 these days.

Have fun looking. Big and small are represented. Potter has always produced some big Bucks, but not in the one year only numbers you will find represented here.

For your viewing pleasure; The Potter Co. 2012 Big Buck results.

Things could and have been a lot worse as far as nice Bucks coming out of Potter. And the kids seem to be doing just fine in removing the little guys and also some of the big ones.




http://tiogapublishing.smugmug.com/Events/2012-Potter-County-Buck

......aaaaand!!!



http://www.endeavornews.com/news/2009-01-24/outdoors/054.html

(Click on the pic to see it better)

Guy I know fussed to me some years ago, that while the bucks are now bigger, we used to get twice as many brought in to our local buck contest, years ago.

Well, yes that is true. Even if half of them were little bucks that guys mostly drove down to weigh. Then there are other changes that've taken place, like the store changing hands sevral years ago and closing earlier now, even on the first few days of rifle deer.

Anyone that hasn't noticed the nicer quality of bucks since ARs came into being in PA, must really have a nasty place to hunt in?

As for kids, some of the big bucks have been taken by junior hunters and even MYH kids, the past few years. And now that is apparently infuriating many older hunters, since the commissioners have considered setting a minimum age for MHY kids?

Too many complaints from old buzzards, grumbling about big buck pics and 9 year olds, it seems?

Hey watch that, or i'll have do quit circling, land and pic your eyes out!!!!

I am officially an ol' buzzard myself, but can no longer get off'n the ground to circle. Advantage to you.

....and some from the western side of the State:

http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/community_chevrolet/slideshow/Big%20Buck%20Contest%202012

And these !!!





Sorry............ couldn't help myself !!!