Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 7x57 loads in a modern action

In a modern action, and what determines a modern action? Can a 7x57 be loaded to in comparison? Example, to a 280Rem, 280AI, 284Win, 7-08, get the idea.

7-08 easy. Case capacity dictates. That's in my Mauser's (M98 and 96) and a Ruger.

My 24" 7X57 runs about 125fps slower than my 280 with a 25" barrel when using 139 Hornady Interlocks.

John Barsness did a write up on just this a while back. I think he said that generally speaking, 2800 to maybe 2850 was top end for 140s in a 22" bbl. @2700 for 150s, and 2600 for 160s. That's off memory, and I could be off.

My father used to run 140 Partitions in my brother's Ruger M77 7x57, at 3000fps. I can't recall the exact powder charge, but want to say 48 or 49 grains of H4350. I know it made a crunching sound when he seated the bullet.

He said over 2900 was easily doable for a 140 like the Hornady Interlock 139 and 2850 or so for something like a Partition. With 49 or 50 grains of H4350 I can get 3000fps. I usually shoot 48 and just use the same charge with a 139 grain Hornady or a 154. With the 154, I'm getting over 2800 with that load.

I think you recall better than I.

The load I mentioned above in the 7X57 runs across the chrono at 2985.

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Perhaps "in a strong action" might be better than "in a modern action". But, again... that doesn't tell you much. I.E. ... define "modern" and define "strong"?

Generally, I'd say a "modern action" or "modern rifle" is any action or rifle made since about 1935 (the Model 70 Winchester) or possibly even earlier... back to maybe 1920 or so. However, I believe some manufacturers were "modernizing" the steels they used in their firearms as late as the late 1920's or early 1930's, but don't quote me on that.

However, most of us understand that a "modern action" means a rifle which has been manufactured within a certain time-frame using modern manufacturing methods, modern steel, modern ballistic knowledge and reasonable caution as used in the popular reloading manuals.

I.E., few, if any, of us would consider a rifle made in 1893 a "modern rifle". (Just ignore the Model 94 Winchester introduced in 1894 or the Savage Model 99 introduced in its original form in 1895 and re-introduced in 1899) In fact, it is generally well-known the 1893 and 1895 Mauser rifles manufactured in those years weren't as strongly made as the famous 1898 Mauser.

Therefore, the SAAMI recommended chamber pressure for the 7x57 cartridges is limited to a low 46,000 CUP due to the fact that in many 3rd world countries, they're still using 1893 and 1895 Mauser rifles. (Don't even ask about the chamber pressures of "blue pill" loads - )

By the same token, "modern" rifle cartridges often have chamber pressures that run upwards of 50,000 CUP to 54,000 CUP or more if the so-called "magnum" cartridges are also included.

However, in at least one well-known reloading manual, the recommended MAXIMUM LOAD for the 7x57 cartridge is listed using a powder load of 50.0 grains of H4350 (my Ruger #1 International loves this load) and indicates this yields a chamber pressure of 50,000 CUP. HOWEVER... this load has a "warning" attached to it indicating that the maximum load MUST BE USED IN MODERN RIFLES ONLY!

Most shooters would consider that this means in a bolt-action rifle ONLY, but such is not necessarily true. My Ruger #1 is a "modern rifle" (made in 1993). HOWEVER, it's action is very old... it has a "falling block" action found in rifles made in the late 1800s.

Hardly a "modern rifle" if it's "heart"... it's action... is well over 100 years old, eh?

That said... it must be admitted that a well-made falling block action using modern steels is a very strong action and can easily handle chamber pressures of 50,000 CUP... and even more!

Now... considering all of the above, let's talk "REALISM"!!! You mentioned examples of comparing a 7x57 cartridge to a .280 Remington, a .280 Remington AI, a .284 or a 7mm-08. Let's talk about these cartridges.

All of the cartridges you mentioned (except one, the 7mm-08) have a larger powder capacity than the 7x57 and, therefore, like cubic inches and horsepower in engines, the engine with the greatest amount of cubic inches can normally be made to out-perform any engine with smaller cubic inches... and thus, all the cartridges with a greater powder capacity and an equal or higher chamber pressure will out-perform the best the 7x57 will do at the same chamber pressure.

The same can be said of "powder capacity" in all cartridges if all the other factors (chamber pressure, cartridge shape, barrel length, use of the best suited powder, etc., etc.) are the same.

While the shape of the cartridge case and the angle of the shoulder CAN make some difference in muzzle velocity, the big "deciding factors" are POWDER CAPACITY and CHAMBER PRESSURE. If we give all these cartridges the SAME chamber pressure, then the ONLY difference will be POWDER CAPACITY... and that is the REAL DECIDING FACTOR that determines muzzle velocity in a rifle with the same barrel length under normal conditions.

I may have forgotten to include some small details, but the above is the true basis of the "realism" of why some cartridges under-perform or out-perform other cartridges.

But worry not because I'm sure some know-it-all troll who likes to pull the wings off of butterflies will find a way to poke holes in my post.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Ron T,
thanks, a great explanation, now I have a better understanding of how it "works"

Bob...

Glad you now have a better understanding. But I forgot one HUGE factor... RECOIL !!!

And the LACK of unpleasant recoil is a big factor in the reason so many knowledgeable hunters choose the 7x57 cartridge (aka "7mm Mauser" and ".275 Rigby") as their preferred hunting cartridge. The 7x57. like the 6.5x55 Swede. seems to kill far beyond what their ballistics indicate they should... and they do it with less-than-expected recoil.

With the exception of the "big bears", the 7x57 is easily capable of taking ALL new world big game animals and, in a pinch, the 7x57, backed up by a guide using a .338 Winchester Magnum or a .375 H&H Magnum, will take the "big bears" as well, but shot placement becomes extremely important at that point.

With about the same recoil as the .270 Winchester (which has a fairly light recoil) firing 130 grain bullets, the 7x57 is an excellent choice for an "all-around" big game rifle cartridge.

Incidentally, about the turn from the 19th. to 20th. century, (1900), an ivory hunter named "Karamojo" Bell, an excellent marksman, used a 7x57 Mauser to shoot and kill over 1,000 elephants in Africa. Most of 'em were one-shot kills. However, I doubt if anyone would recommend the 7x57 as an "elephant gun".


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Ron,
I am a tradtionalist, always admired the 7x57, 257Bob 270, had one, I made up my boys 257AI's and the 6.5 Swede, I hunted all this fall for a new swede, or Bob and did not like the Ruger 77, in what I could afford, but Tikka does not import them anymore, CZ550 was just out of my price range, whored myself on a Vangaurd in 257WM. To fill the rifle gap looking to get a 7mm, I have a Ruger#3 in 45-70 for the big bore. I have the knolewdge that the 7x57 is a real killer but always have a bug about getting more velocity out of them, like a 280Rem, but still having the 7x57, that is why the question.

At about 62000 psi (7-08 pressure) a 7x57 will hit 2950 fps or so with 140's and 2750 with 160's. Chamber (throat) variations are major in these, so you have to be careful or use a pressure trace. I had shot some of these for years and hooked a pressure trace up just to see how much pressure I was running.

I personally know a lady that set out to, and did, take a rhino with her 7x57.

jstevens,
what is a pressure trace?

I keep grabbing my featherweight in 7 x 57 a lot when it isn't raining out hunting...( this is Oregon, so rain here is inevitable)...I have a batch of ammo loaded up with a 140 grain ballistic tip at 2800 fps ( 10 rounds)....

since I hunt in an area where 150 yds is a long shot, I also load something lighter every year that usually gives me the same bullet impact...

this season, I loaded a 139 grain SP Hornady with a charge of 35 grains of H 322...dime sized cloverleaf at 100 yds... "close enough for government work"...

no deer taken this year... as I was too busy trying to herd them toward kids/ teenagers...

did push a big buck toward two kids... I told them to be in two spots... instead they were together and listening to their MP3 players... so never saw the buck that went rocketing right behind them...

their response? "sorry man!"....

I know this is an older thread but I figured it would be pertinent.

Has anyone been able to safely push a 162-168 gr bullet to 2800 fps in your 7x57?

160 TSX going 2650 out of mine, and its red-lined...

Yeah, the 160 TSX develops more pressure than some other bullets, despite the grooves in the shank. I've used 46.0 grains of H4350 in my 21" barreled 7x57 for years with various 156-160 grain bullets, and never had a problem, but the 160 TSX will get touchy with that powder charge in warm weather. (Yeah, H4350 is an Extreme powder, but even those still develop higher pressures in temperatures much above 70, though not to the extent of "standard" powders.)

Loading the 7x57 isn't like most other rounds, due to the varying throat dimensions of different barrels. My present rifle is a custom, chambered with a reamer with a short throat. It will still chamber and shoot any factory ammo I've tried, but doesn't require as much powder to reach the same velocity levels as some of the dozen other 7x57've I've owned, and pressures would definitely be too high with some of those loads.

Plus, as somebody already mentioned, the whole point of the 7x57 is a relatively mild-recoiling rifle that will still neatly kill big game. Believe it or not, a 140 at 2800 or a 160 at 2650 will do that, even on very big animals. I haven't done a Bell and shot elephants with mine, but have used it on good-sized Canadian moose with no problems, and also on African springbok (a little smaller than pronghorns) at just under 400 yards, both with 160's at 2650. Have killed a lot of other game with my other 7x57's out to 400 with 140's at 2850 or so.

If you want more velocity from a 7mm, buy a .280 or .280 AI or some sort of 7mm magnum, instead of pushing a 7x57 hard. It works just fine at moderate velocities, which is why it's still seen in hunting camps 121 years after it first appeared.

Well said!

I've never grasped why shooters who want magnum velocities from a standard cartridge. Any thoughts to share on this?