Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire CT judge rules that horses are innately vicious.

If this isn't overturned, horse owners won't be able to get insurance and children will have to be kept away from them in CT.


Court Concludes Horses Are Innately Vicious; Farmers Appeal

HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) � After a horse named Scuppy bit a boy in the face, a Connecticut court came to a conclusion that threw animal lovers: Horses are a naturally vicious species.

Horse owners and farmers are mobilizing as the state Supreme Court hears an appeal in the case Tuesday. Such a classification � the nation's first, if it stands � would make owning horses uninsurable and jeopardize the state's sizable horse industry, farmers and horse owners say.

"You could not pair children and horses, the core equestrian business nationwide that it's all about,'' said Doug Dubitsky, a lawyer who represents farmers and horse businesses.

When the boy tried to pet the horse at Glendale Farms in Milford in 2006, according to court papers, the animal stuck his neck out from behind a fence and bit the child on his right cheek, "removing a large chunk of it.''

In February 2012, the mid-level Appellate Court overturned a lower court ruling and said that testimony by Timothy Astriab, whose family owns the farm, demonstrated that Scuppy belongs to "a species naturally inclined to do mischief or be vicious.''

Although he had no knowledge of Scuppy biting anyone before, Astriab testified that Scuppy was no different than other horses that would bite if a finger was put in front of him. "Significantly, Astriab acknowledged his concern that if someone made contact with Scuppy, whether to pet or feed him, they could get bit,'' the justices said.

The injury suffered by the boy was foreseeable and the owners of the farm had a duty to use reasonable care to restrain the animal to prevent injury, the Appellate Court ruled.

Astriab did not return a call on Monday seeking comment.

If allowed to stand, Connecticut would be the first state to consider horses as inherently dangerous, said Dubitsky.

Horse farmers and equine enthusiasts, who cite 2005 statistics saying that the horse industry contributes about $221 million a year to the state's economy in boarding, training, lessons and breeding businesses, are asking the state Supreme Court to overturn the Appellate Court's decision. The Connecticut Farm Bureau and Connecticut Horse Council filed a friend of the court brief saying that under common law viciousness generally is judged individually according to age, breed and gender, not as an entire species.

Fred Mastele, acting president of the state's horse council, said it is encouraging horse owners to attend the hearing Tuesday and support the Astriab family.

"In our opinion, horses are not vicious animals,'' he said. "They are certainly not attack animals.''

Astriab had won at a lower court in 2010, when a New Haven judge sided with the horse's owner and ruled that the child's father, Anthony Vendrella Sr., failed to prove the owner knew of previous incidents of aggression by Scuppy.

The Superior Court judge said Astriab testified that neither he nor anyone else had ever seen Scuppy bite a person before and that in 28 years, none of the horses at the farm bit or injured anyone.

"Cats have a tendency to scratch and horses have a tendency to bite, but the plaintiffs have failed to show, as they must, that the defendants were on notice that Scuppy specifically, and not horses generally, had a tendency to bite people or other horses,'' Judge Robin Wilson ruled.

Unfortunately I am not surprised by anything this fugging state comes up with. Utter BS, but that's Connecticut ......

LMAO... Now THERE'S a judge who's never seen, heard or rode a horse in his life..no doubt never got his his sorry azz no further than the local grocery store where he might have seen some pic of a horse on some rag magazine at the checkout..

Been around horses all my life, I agree with the judge.

We tell people, the best horse will have a bad minute once in his life, and during that minute someone may get killed.

Horses weigh a couple zillion pounds and can put it all into one hoof at warp speed.
I refuse to trust any horse at any time.

I would just as soon shoot a [bleep] horse than ride one. Can't trust them.

I understand that if you shoot them they make good dogfood ,otherwise I got no use for one.

Horse meat is just fine for humans too, name me another animal that eats grass and grain that doesn't taste delicious.

The person in that video holding the camera either wanted the boy kicked or is an idiot. Anybody could see that coming. miles

Innately vicious? No.

Some inherent danger? Yes.

Idiots need not apply.

Video was filmed by an idiot. Rule #1 violated.

Yeah, here a vet gets a lesson.

Stick a hot poker to my ass and that's the least you can expect!

When I was six my dad had a a tour in Korea. Mom and I lived with my grandparents in northern Wisconsin for a year. Uncle Frank had a team of Belgians for hauling pulp but mostly local competition. Grampa took care of them, he had a great affinity for horses.

He taught me about horses, how to approach them, how to read them and essentially how to communicate with them. After he saw that I had learned the lessons this little six year old was allowed to approach great big Belgiums. Jerry was particularly friendly. Nary a problem or a threat of one. (Though Momma about crapped every time but Grampa mediated.)

As always, it's properly conditioned animals and people understanding them. Now cows, they're crazy!

Yep, and that's the best ones.

I've had broken bones and schidt and pizzed my share of blood from love pats from horses. I sold my last two and used the money for a comfortable bed. Much easier to ride, and I don't have to feed it.

Well, I'll give you that they are unpredictable and sooner or later, if you're around horses enough you'll get hurt. But I love them (most of them anyway) and I'm willing to take the risk.

Its like my neighbor she foster cares dogs and right now she as one that is itching to take a piece out of me, I told her that if it should occur and there is blood, its going to be bad for me, getting a rabies treatment, bad for the dog because I will shoot him, and worst for you when I file a 10 million dollar suit against you. I was real polite about it, I have ever right to take a walk when I want, my taxes pays for the road too. As for this judge, what a fool, all that was needed was to pay for the medical and leave it at that, or shoot the horse. He didn't have the stones for either. How the hell to the function when a horse will have more common sense!

so, this then begs the question: would you rather fight a horse-sized duck or 100 duck-sized horses?

My grandfather used to say, "A horse is 1000 pounds of stupid, with mean at both ends". Pretty much my experience as well, not all that bright and ALWAYS looking for a chance to hurt you. The secret is to not give them that chance and always be aware of the possibility.

Wow, some of you guys know next to nothing about horse behavior.

Disagree, the father repeatedly told the boy to move away from the horse. The boy moved away and then darted back in toward it. Maybe from now on the child will listen to his father.

always take a gun to a duck fight

Yeah, and it only took me 58 years of them around to learn nothing.

Stupid kids and stupid animals don't mix.

I grew up on a ranch and spent a bunch of time on/around horses. you have to treat them with respect because they can hurt you.

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cCG7HWdRtkQ[/video]

LOL

I hope he knocked the fool's head clean off!

Not as smart as a six year old. I do believe that was the first lesson, never stand or walk up behind a horse even if you "know" it's safe. And that is not how you get a horse to pull, obviously.

Been around horses many years. my horses haven't a mean bone in them. However do know some questionable ones, their stalls are posted and I always tell people to never assume all horses are nice. Can't help the stupid people that they think they know all. [bleep] that judge!

Yep, what a maroon. Sometimes you get what you ask for.

If the dad wasn't more interested if filming than helping the kid, he could have avoided the painful lesson for the kid. I'd be surprised if the kid's leg weren't broken. The dad is a maroon.

I doubt it, after all he is a boy and we all know boys must learn the hard way.

i don't care for them

What a bunch of bullshit, "Always looking for a chance to hurt you,"what kind of garbage did he ride?

wtf?

I know that they seldom seem to want to hurt you. They're just so big and so strong that if they spook a little or act up just a little, there is a big potential for injury.

I never had a mean one, but I had some "uncooperative" ones.

Like many things in life. ..respect what can hurt you and never for a moment forget that it can hurt you

Think about this country and where it is going when inanimate objects kill people on their own accord and you can't get insurance for a horse...

One of my favorites.

Neighbor lady, real pretty gal, just got a horse this summer.
After maybe two weeks I drove by and saw her, looked like her husband took a bat to her head.

I've never been a horse kinda guy, but really never tried either. They are what they are, big fuggin animals. Kids and stupid people don't need to be around them.

They also make really good dog food.

Awesome. TFF, Again sometimes you get what you ask for.

It's just funny to me the number of people that try to make it the horse's fault.

I've probably been around more horses than most from owning, riding, packing, jumping, transporting, and trimming and shoeing. A lot have been what one might call "bronc-y". "Somehow" I have fewer injuries and far less severe than some folks that have been around a lot fewer critters.

A friend of mine advised some Arab owners not to pack on their horses. When they asked why, he told them you have to be smarter than the horse. It hurt feelers, but is true.

Horses are just like dogs, or cows or pickups, or women or whatever.


There are good ones and there are bad ones. Easy to spot a bad horse(most of the time..).


Didn't click on the links but the fools running up on a horses ass are just that, total fools.

Grew up with horses, never hurt once. Knock on wood....grin





The latest pony, really good little horse.

Oooh! He's pretty!




LOL!

Total show pony.....grin

Showing cows who is boss!

Does he bite steer on the ass?

Maybe bite if he was pushing cattle in an alleyway. I rarely work cows in a corral(horseback) but his previous owner had him pretty much doing it all. Full-time working horse.

Total broke cow horse, 7-8 year old.


The best kind, not some squirrely 3 year old....grin



Tiny head, headstall bottomed out of holes and it was still a little loose and he rubbed it off 3-4 times before I finally shortened it up.

I've heard of a few horse bites, not good either.

He's nice but he's not Fred.

Do the links when you have time.

When my dad was a kid he got bit by a horse. Got him right on the back.



Griz, no Fred but he ain't bad.

I have Fred's skull aging on an ash tree.


Right where he died.

Ya, horses are bad for kids.

60 years old, spent my entire life around horses - and been kicked twice. Once - a nick on the shoulder from a colt, the other broke 3 ribs by an older horse (not ours) - I did something stupid.
I won't blame most horses for people's mistakes - or stupidity (ignorance).

Mark

Cool. I kept ol' Lester's skull for a long time until somebody decided they needed it more than I did. Lester was running free following me on another horse when somehow he ran a snag up in his "arm pit" and bled out right there on the mountain. Nothing could be done. Pretty sad end for a good pony. After a couple of years I packed his head back down off the mountain.

Tough go for Lester.


Dang.


Wrong turn crossing a ridge last week.

I'm not too crazy about cows these days.Tthey can ruin a nice day in the saddle, but that looks nice.

I've never been too crazy about cows but they help pay the bills.

I'm familiar with the Eastern horsey set; all though high school I shoveled poop in a stable with anywhere from 50 to 90 horses boarded. Thoroughbreds mostly, owned by folks whose avocation ran to dressage and jumping events. The sort of event where someone has to get in at 5am to groom and braid manes.

This is a considerably moneyed group with husbands and fathers associated with elite professional organizations.

Hard for me to imagine this ruling won't go unchallenged.

Birdwatcher

Yep. That said, women can sneak up on you it you ain't careful. That's a good lookin' pony.

That guy filming is an aszhole. The minute that horse moved off he should have gotten that kid out of there. I'd like to see the guy filming be pushed up into that same horse.

I would rather see the putz in jail... That is absolutely felonious child endangerment and I come close to hating horses...

Yep, your thieving ass should be his cell mate...just saying.

Birdy-
With that background, If you are not familiar with the story of Snowman, you might enjoy it and be able to relate to it also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowman_%28horse%29

Book here:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Eighty-Dollar-Champion-Snowman-Inspired/dp/0345521099

I can never keep it straight - are statements like that slander or libel?

Show me again just how stupid you are, please. You are clueless at best and equating less than half a story with a story well-told on video makes you feel smug?

Every time you post you show what a clueless twit you really are. How about I start shadowing your stupidity and making public note of everything you post and how obvious it is you are hiding in Mom's basement while posting?

But then I just took a stroll through your posts... notice I am the only one that ever posts to you? That just ended. It should have ended a long time ago as you clearly have nothing worth adding to any discussion. You now get to ride with the worthless likes of Jeff O and eh76... There are only two others I have ever put on ignore, but that makes you number 5. Between you there are not enough brain cells to rub together to spark on a doorknob.

Call Sarah dipshit.

GFY! Thief!

As much as people want to put human ethics and values into their animals, animals have their own set of ethics and moral values. The nicest dog will bite and horses kick. I seen guys who "know horses" tell me they can walk behind their horses and prove it. Then they want me to prove that I can walk behind their horses. Nope, not gonna do it.

I've been kicked once and it wasn't because I was back there on purpose. It's not something I want to do again.

Alan

Oh, and I don't need a CT judge to tell me that horses will bite and kick. My daddy told me that when I was very young. I believed him, but the horses proved him right.

Alan

Tenderfoot:" Should I buy a horse, or mule?"

Oldtimer:" You want to get hurt accidentally, or on purpose?"

Who ya gonna kick now, horsey...? LOL

Sounds like a great story, thanks

Shovelling horse crap on weekends was the greatest job in the world for a high school kid back then, or at least I thought so. Kept me outside around the barns from before sunup until dark, paid for it too I still recall the spring peepers (frogs) and the first phoebes (birds) coming back in the spring.

Horse crap and sawdust in enough quantities that I got to be an absolute ace hustling that Massey-Fergussen tractor w/front end loader down the aisles, scooping up a pile of horse poop/sawdust and throwing the tractor back into reverse in one smooth movement.

I recall exactly where I was when the news first came about Nixon resigning; I was double-clutching a battered old dump truck, coming back through the woods empty from the manure pile.

Anyhoo.... rich, pretty women and homosexual men; that was my impression of who was into eastern-style equitation back then. It was no mystery why a woman would find a 2,000 pound animal between her legs to be appealing. One of 'em even attempted suicide, slashed her wrists, when her horse died

Me, I was just a kid with a funny accent shoveling horse crap. Which is why them ladies who would bring their horses whole buckets of iced tea complete with ice cubes in summer would ignore us mere humans entirely...

While I know that Eastern tack and riding techniques lend an unrivalled degree of control and communication with the horse, I myself much preferred the Western approach, both for the practical riding and the surrounding cultural mindset.

Birdwatcher

Point taken.

Horse bites can be ugly. When I was a kid, my folks told of a lady they knew who had lost a breast to a horse bite.

I never met an unpredictable horse. One just has to know how to communicate with them. I am moderately fluent in horse. I know some who are proficient and I am jealous of them.

All most every horse exhibits a tendency towards biting as a colt or filly. It is how they communicate within the herd and establish dominance. Biting of humans must be trained out of them.

Horses telegraph their intention to bite, an experienced horse person recognizes that for what it is and avoids the bite, and offers negative reinforcement.

A city kid, or adult, visiting a "petting zoo" has not a chance of recognizing the signals which my eight year old grand daughter surely would. The eight year old would not be bashful about slapping the offending pony right in the kisser either.

There a few simple rules to be safe around horses:
Always speak as you approach from the rear, so that you do not startle the horse.

Never step behind a horse with more than one foot space between you and the horse, or less than eight feet of space. The horses hind leg is less than eight feet long. And he can not really hurt you if you are actually right up against his butt when he tries to kick.

Never trust a horses mouth, especially a strange horse. He can hurt you severely with his teeth. Watch for the typical signs of displeasure such as laid back ears and bared teeth. If you see that, something is going to get bit.

There is nothing in this world better for a kid than to have a relationship with animals in general and horses in particular. Learning to be a proficient rider teaches numerous skills, both mental and physical. Not the least of which is a spirit of cooperation.

There is nothing better than watching a youngster and his horse mastering new skills together.

Excellent post.

I had a girlfriend in high school who mucked out stables for riding lessons. I helped her once and was invited to ride a horse. I had a nagging disposition that it was not natural for anyone to get onto the back of a wild animal so I declined. A couple years later, I dated a girl who had a scar across her chest she got when a horse threw her. My friends went elk hunting in Colorado and 5 minutes into the nice horse ride into camp, my friend Eddie's horse kicked my friend George in the leg (up on his horse) and 10 minutes into the trip, it bit my friend Dean. A half hour into the ride, Dean's horse took off at a bolt and threw him. He broke a couple ribs a half hour into a $5,000 trip of a lifetime. A couple years ago, my cousin in New York got tossed off her horse. Broke her back. The horse went back to the stables without her. They went looking and found her face down in the mud crying. Horses are not for me.


Now Cows! My friend just put electric fence around the fields I hunt and bought a half dozen cows. I unhook that gate and walk in and all of a sudden, I have eight cows following me wherever I go. I don't like how they drop what they are doing and come up to me. He said they're harmless. There's a bull in the pasture. He said "harmless." I may be over thinking things but any one of these guys could knock me down and tap dance on my forehead.