Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR 40-70 sharps straight

Gentleman,
I am in the process of rebarreling a Husqvarna model 12 rolling block to 40-70 sharps straight. It will have a 30" octagon barrel with 16 twist by douglas. (what about the compairson with a green mountain barrel?) I have some bertram and reformed 30-40 brass on order. I am trying to locate dies, bullet molds, and a BP reloading manuel in good used condition. Also trying to decide what sight setup to use. Any one having experience in this type of setup, I would appreciate your imput.
Rider

I just recently sold I Shiloh Sharps in 40-70SS along with Lyman dies and four moulds...three Lyman and one custom Accurate Moulds mould along with 100 new to twice fired cases from BACO. Your rifle will probably take the standard Remington 30-40 Krag case. The problem with the 40-70 is expenses and availability of brass and getting the right cases. Several different ones are made depending on which rifle. C. Sharps and Ballard rifles take one kind,Shiloh Sharps another and yet originals take a different case, all due to differences in head space and thickness of the rim.

If you're re-barreling it I'd have the smith to set the chamber up for originals type brass. You can get them from BACO (Buffalo Arms Company)Elsewise, other brass may be difficult to come by. The most difficult to find are the ones specifically for the Shiloh Sharps. They have a rim of .068" and the originals .064", IIRC.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/40_70_Sharps_Straight_Reloading_Brass_it-157192.aspx?CAT=3838

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Brass_39-40_Caliber_pr-3838.aspx?CAT=3838

BTW-You'll need a powder compression die, wads, blow tube and a lot of other goodies to get started. I always cast butllets for BPCR's 1:20. Use SPG lube and you'll get no leading.,

How difficult would it be to shave a bit off of the Sharp's rims?

Don't know about that. The rim on the ones for the Shiloh Sharps are raised, sort of and not so on the others. I guess that's how they get the extra height. Why not just buy the proper brass in the first place?

I shoot mostly PP bullets in my .40-70 and the .405 Hornady cases work the best for that in my Shiloh. There is nothing wrong with the BA .30-40 cases either. I been using the Rem .30-40 cases for 13 years and they are still holding up very good.
I got 50 Bertram cases when I first got the rifle and better than 1/2 split lengthwise in a short time.
If I was to rebarrel the rifle I would chamber it for the .405 win brass.
CAnt tell you anything about the barrels., except I used the GM barrels in the front stuffers I build and they needed a lot of help. But, that was 20 some years back.

I would suggest you google up Sulphur Gulch Gunsmithing just up the way from you in Parker.
Eron can handle the job, do it right and turn you out a rifle capable of winning matches or just flat accurate shooting, and you won't have to worry and wonder about what brass..

I would suggest a caliber other than 40-70SS. I have one, and it was a royal headache to get to shoot, even after the issues with brass were solved. If you gotta have a 40, make it a 40-65. The 40-65 us a user friendly cartridge, not a drama queen like the 40-70 Straight.

Dittos.

I know that part of the appeal of traditional single shots is the factor of historical "cool", and just plain BIG. Unfortunately, many who are new to the BPCR world buy themselves a whole bunch of hassle getting some of the more exotic rounds to shoot well. I'd sure be curious to see the numbers of rebarrel jobs Shiloh gets, or those rifles that end up as permanent safe queens.

If you absolutely must have more velocity than the .40-65 produces, consider the .40-82, which is formed by simply necking down .45-90 brass. I had my .40-65 rechambered, and it is a great shooter. Get just over 1300 fps with my loads and a 417 gr. bullet. That said, if I had it to do over I probably would leave it as .40-65.

Paul

Heed what SharpsGuy posted. I hear the same from other ..40-70SS shooters.

The .40-65 is a very pleasant round. The cartridge is easily formed from readily available .45-70 brass.

Gentlemen,
Thanks for your advice. I may need to reconsider my caliber selection. I have done some reading and the general consenses is that the 40-70 SS is difficult to load. I have already commited to Sturtevant Arms here in Pueblo for the gun smithing work. Bill is backed up with work right now so I have some time to reconsider the caliber. Again, thanks for the advice.

I must have an oddball .40-70SS. When I got it I had to go through load developements but it was a short search and after I learned how to load it, it turned out to be a very fine shooter.
The problem is guys that have this caliber try to feed it what dont work.
The same goes to the Sharps bottle necked cartridges. Pay attention to what your doing and learn what works in them and they will shoot.

rider if it's a 40-70 you have your gut set on, then just do it. You won't rest until you finally get one, so instead of horsing around for 40 years ( like I did) get the rifle you want now.
I'ld still recommend Sulphur Gulch unless you absolutely can't get your stuff back from the other guy. It doesn't get much better than having a world champion bpcr shooter, match director and superior gunsmith build your rifle. And his prices are reasonable, quality of work is extreme.

What ever caliber I decide on I will need a sight system. Anyone have any suggestions for mid range shooting ( too 300 yards) The best maker in the mid price range? Is Steve Garbes book the "Holy Grail" of BPCR or are there others that fill the bill?

Paul Matthew has two good books on BPCR, "Loading for the Black Powder Cartridge" and "More How-To's for the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Shooter" I got copies of both from Amazon at a great price and they are well worth it.

Ed

If you read Matthew's books in particular, or those by other BPCR gurus, pay some heed to when they were written, and try to read them in that order.

They have tended to change their views over time, and the prevailing wisdom and practices have changed as well.

Paul

Paul there is a lot of truth in that.
We who have shot these powder rifles for many years have changed our way of loading, casting, and components used as time goes by to improve our shooting ability. The learning ability stops when your set in just one way of doing it.
How many times have I heard "my rifle quit shooting"

Kurt

It basically boils down to we've caught up to the knowledge in shooting these things the average teenager had in the 1880's...

Amen! I am an absolute novice at the BPCR game and I noticed a number of things in Matthews books that are done differently now, but I gathered a lot of the basics from them and got a good view of how things are changing.

One of the best pieces of advice I have received was to go to a BPCR event, watch what and how the shooters were doing, and ask lots of questions.

Ed

Very true. I'm wondering if Mike Venturino is still enamored by the 40-70SS as he was fifteen years ago and still using Federal 215 primers, primarily.

The gun writers are no different than you and me or other shooters. They do things and and put it down in writing later to find out that there is a better way or the Mag primers and larger flash holes are not the thing. Something they dont find out just shooting a few test loads before writing the article.
I use a mag primer for one caliber but not all. Case length, diameter, bullet weight and compression is not a fixed thing and all will change when the powder manufacture changes a lot as well as the brass or primers.
And above all else the person that has the press handle in his hands or the nut behind the butplate that is mostly the issue.

Kurt