Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Combination Guns and Drillings Just "found" a 28 gauge/.22 hornet combination gun

Have a few questions....it needs a little TLC and wondered who is a go to guy for these types of guns? I need a rear flip up sight, I will have to repair/replace the wood - looks like someone tried to "separate" the wood from the receiver by prying and it spilt near the upper part of the receiver (on both sides), and the safety is a little stiff. Other than that it is in pretty good shape. It came with claw mounts and the fella I got it from gave me a scope with claw mounts that might work but I am not sure of the limitations of these systems (as far as moving rings, etc...). I will try and get some pics up so you can see what I am talking about to solicit some advice - I was just so excited that I finally had a combination gun and in two of my favorite calibers/gauges!!

PennDog

I'm anxious to see it!

The hornet is pretty common in combos; the 28ga not so common.

Overall Gun....note scope spacing issue.


Close-up with stock defect (same on left side)


This should make a great little turkey/small game gun here in PA


Left-side

Nice find! I'd like to say that would be useless here in PA. You know those turkeys are too big for that gun and squirrels are too small. You might as well send it to me in Newville. I think I can send you an old long barreled 12 gauge single shot in trade, but you know better. Cool old gun!
There are only two places I let work on my German Guns, Champlin Arms and PISCO. New England works on Germand guns as well, but I've never had them do any work for me. Any of those three might even be able to salvage your stock for you. Champlin and New England will work on claw mounts. Neither is cheap, but they are good. Last time I talked with PISCO, they referred me to New England for claw work.
Of course you have to keep us posted on its restoration.
Bfly

I just found (at a garage sale; go figure) an old reproduction of the ALFA 1911 catalog in four languages. ALFA (Adolf Frank and Co.) was kinda the Stoegers of pre-Nazi Germany. Haven't had a chance to go thru all of it, but did notice combos of your type in 28 ga and ".22 Winchester," and will have another look to see if that specific action type was sold by them, and under what brand.

Their "ALFA" brand guns were made by many German and Belgian and Spanish makers, the best known being J.P. Sauer and Sons, but it is often hard to pin down the actual maker of an ALFA, although the Germans were well-known for marking things meticulously (in codes) and a German gun collector can usually help.

So if you could let us know any stampings on the barrels and on the "water table," somebody might be able to tell you who made this, or who made the main components.

Unless this gun is VERY late, it isn't made for our .22 Hornet but the ancestor of the Hornet, the .22 WCF or in German, 5.6x35mm Vierling. Normally this used lead, not jacketed bullets, so you might think about handloading if you are going to run a passel of bullets down the bore. Most owners don't and a few hundred Hornet bullets won't hurt it much. AND unless the 28 barrel is marked "28/70," it's a 2 1/2" chamber and needs shorter than standard US shells. Several makers make 28 2 1/2s that will work fine (28/65 is the standard European 2 1/2" chamber of the times; 70mm chambers were usually for guns made for export).

I'll let you know if I find "your gun" in the ALFA catalog, and what they called it.

Neat gun; BTW I was VERY surprised to see how popular 28s were in 1911! Thought they came later, I guess WE caught up to the guage a little late.

Thank you Mesa for ALL the information.....I will look at the markings as soon as I get a chance to do so - have to travel for the next few days. It really is an interesting gun and one that will be just as much fun to get back into shooting condition (making sure of the proper cartridges, restoring the broken/missing items, etc....) as it will be to shoot the thing. The only thing that I have noticed on the barrels thus far was "nitro-proof".....I will investigate further.

PennDog

Yeah, you gotta love a "project"! I'm keeping the ALFA catalog; once common, now hard to find, so take your time.

I did find a couple of ALFA brand combination guns that were offered in 28 ga.x ".22 Winchester" and look VERY much like your gun. The two models seem to differ only in the style and amount of engraving. The catalog specifies steel barrels, meaning NOT Damascus.

Some of the same models were offered in larger caliber rifle barrels with the same 28 ga. shotgun barrel--9.3x72R and 8.15x46R, with other smaller calibers special order. But the three standard offerings seem to have been ".22 Winchester" ("Vierling") and the two just mentioned.

I assume a combination gun of the caliber/guage you have would have been used for pretty much the same game as we would shoot with a Savage Model 24 in .410 and .22LR or .22WRM--rabbits/hares, small birds like woodcock and snipe, wood pigeons, and predators like fox, polecat, stoat, and crows if encountered.

A little light for bigger game; the 28 was available loaded with a round ball in those days, but not a real deer slug that I can find. The ".22 Winchester" had ballistics very similar to our present ".22 Rimfire Magnum."

But maybe they had some specialized use I'm not familiar with.

Providing the scope mounts are the right height both front and back, and they have the claw bases, which it looks like, LeeLeBas can mount the scope. He has his shop open back here in N NV. I could get you in touch.

BE AWARE that the scope will need to be completely disassembled, polished to white, have the uppers soldered in their new place, and all re-blued. This is how it's done with these scopes.

I'd just have the stock repaired and glassed to the receiver.

Heck! It's too much trouble. Send it here and save aggravation and money.

By the way, I think Mesa is correct as to the rifle round being the 5.6X35R.

Thank you both for the great information.....luv2, I may take you up on the scope because it is out of my comfort zone (if you have time send me his contact information and I will get in touch with him)....I can fix the stock no problem. Can a hornet be fired in a 5.6X35R safely?? I have a lot of learning to do with this gun but I always wanted a combination (german/Austrian) gun and when I found that it was in .28 gauge (my favorite gauge) I damn near wet myself

PennDog

Hey!

If I can't have it, you're on your own!


I'll get you that information.

I never said you couldn't have it Just not sure when you might get it

PennDog

PennDog,

From the book "Cartridges of the World", Seventh Edition, comes this load data for the 5.6x35mm Vierling;

48gr SP (no brand specified), 8 gr.2400, MV - 2120fps, ME - 480fp.

This same load notes a Lyman #225414, so that data would interchange between the lead bullet and the jacketed one. There are ballistics shown for three different RWS soft point loads as well.

The book "Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Converions" shows data for the 5.6x35R Vierling in the listing for the .22 Hornet and gives the following load;

50gr Spire Point, 11.5gr IMR4227 for a velocity of 2585fps.

Ken Howell's book "Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges" makes the notation that the 5.6x35mm Vierling uses .222 cal bullets as opposed to the .224 bullets used in modern .22 Hornets.
It also gives the case specs showing that the Vierling is slightly smaller in most dimensions than the .22 Hornet and that it can be formed from Hornet brass via a set of RCBS forming dies.

I hope this helps in getting that beauty back up and running. I really look forward to updates!

Thank you for sharing that!

Ed

A lazy way to get that rifle barrel shooting safely would be to use a Hornet chamber adapter for .22 LR or .22 WRM. The WRM is fairly close to the original Vierling ballistics.

I will have to do a chamber cast..... a .22 Hornet loaded round fit in the chamber with no resistance? I will be able to look into this more when I get home this weekend.

PennDog

Might not hurt to slug the barrel while you're at it.

The specs are very close for both rounds.

Ed