Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Realistic Distance For Ethical Kills

not_this_shit_again by Sharps45 2 7/8, on Flickr

Excellent comments from shooters I respect. The key for me, is shooting enough... in enough conditions.... to know when to use my booger hook on the bang switch.

This whole debate on 'ethics of LR hunting' should be a lot less about 'ethics' and a lot more about self-control. Remember: Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability....

I spend alot of time playing on steel at 600. It's fun! However, the voodoo is the wind and even at a paltry 600 yards it gets the best of me from time to time.

I really enjoy long range shooting, but when I hunt, I seem to always go back to "HUNTING" and try to get as close as possible. Hell that's more than half the fun for me.

Randy

I don't think people like Mule Deer are positing the dilema as an either/or situation where it's okay to gut shoot deer at 50 yards but not okay to blast legs off at 800 yards. Can't speak for the man, but I am guessing he is totally against either deed.
This is a common form of how things are debated here on the fire- "Oh, you are against talking on cells phones in the car, so you must be for drunk driving."
Slob hunters come in many guises, from all income groups all states, and are both resident and nonresident, and use the full range of guns and gear available to them.
The long range shooting concept might just have added another inspiration to the slob hunters imagination. In that way, it (long range equipment), is just exactly like every other technical advance, like the phone, electricity, computers, etc, some use the advances in positive ways, others just use it in ignorance and arrogance to the detriment of all. Not much you can do about it. That's life.

Yeah this nails it. What's "ethical" depends on who's doing it.

And what I see is a lot of "I can't do it so it must be unethical" attitudes.

Substantively it's no more risky shooting at an animal running at under 100 yards than making a wind call in broken canyon country at 600-800 yards,if you know what you are doing in either case.

And have brains enough to stay off the trigger if you can't pull it off,which anybody with experience will know pretty quickly.

+1

Excellent posts in this thread.

Here's how I suggest a guy should find the longest range he is competent to kill a big game animal.

Go to the range and pick a target for your cold bore shot as far out as you wish. Do everything as well as you can to make a first round hit; range is known, read the wind like you would in the field, shoot with your dick in the dirt.

Fire the shot and look at results.

If you make a hit, move out the next day or pick a day with tougher wind conditions and repeat. You'll soon find your realistic range limit on game.

Shoot a lot of long range practical rifle matches and precision rifle matches. They will make you a better hunter

That is about as good a way as any to figure your limits.

Shod,

There is nothing wrong or uncool about being a novice shooter. The fact that you are willing to put forth time and effort to learn the intricacies of the game is a good indicator that you are on the right path.

I've been fortunate to have a professional background in LR shooting, so while a lot of things were self taught (like most guys), many topics were instructed to me by men who were experts in the craft.

Now I am one of those instructors and I can tell you with certainty that even though I am an instructor, I never stop learning. That is one of the great things about precision rifle shooting in general, You can spend a lifetime perfecting your skill sets, as well as learning how to teach others.

On a side note, if you really want to know a subject inside and out, teach it. You will acquire knowledge from those you teach.

The comments someone made about one group of shooters having disdain for another is right on the money too. It is funny whenever you mention shooting game at a moderate to longer distance, how vehemently people start crying against it, even though they have no idea who is behind the trigger, or their skill sets.

No matter, as long as you know your abilities, and your confidence and competence are in proper balance.

Cheers!

Great post and I'd like to add that you should do more at the range than just fire from bipod or off of your pack, as that may not be possible due to terrain masking. You should KNOW what size groups you are capable off from:

1) Bipod

2) Prone slung and un-slung

3) Pack-prone

4) Pack sitting

5) Sitting

6) Kneeling

The latter positions will open up your group. You should already have a ballpark number in your head for each position that you've practiced from. When a yardage appears in your rangefinder, you should know what positions are feasible for YOU to make the shot.

The Army's doctrine with the M24 SWS in 308 was, head shot capable to 300yd, torso to 600yd. Anything further was considered "harrassing fire" and a low percentage shot. That was in pre-laser days and really top shelf shooters could push out another 100yd past those minimums. That was with an MOA rifle/ammo system each shooter had spent 6 fifty hour weeks and launched 2K rounds through.

Everyone in this thread would be a better rifle shooter if they'd spend a week at Gunsite's 270 or attend one of Randy Cain's Practical Rifle classes. How many here know what groups they are capable of from the Hawkins position?

My groups are tight from the Missionary position. The Hawkins is just a slight variation on that from what they tell me.

I think TAK was referring to the Hawking position.

I think the question of ethics does and should change as conditions dictate, I have just trashed my antelope tags for the season because of a few factors. One time I had a very easy shot at 650 yds. , but It was a fawn doe and a yearling buck, no wind no mirage issues. Next time was a Nice fat doe about 700 yds. Could not get the Leica to read a distance, so instead of shooting ,just packed up and tried to move closer. Saw a whole group together one evening at 385yds, cake shot, but they were up moving around and never cleared apart enuff for a GOOD shot on any of them. Antelope are best eaten when shot bedded and not running all around the countryside. So my way of hunting is looking for bedded resting animals with proper conditions. With the amount of hunters here this year. I did not click the safe off. Distance , conditions ,terrain , rest, level of practice , general health of shooter , amount of time available( is it ethical to shoot in the last twilight of the day?) are all personal things that are accounted for IMHO

Not quite but if you [bleep] it up your face might look like his.

Ethic should be constant, independent of range or conditions or equipment or etal. That is, Absolute certainty of a lethal shot.

Flame away...

Cannot flame when I kinda agree, but absolute uncertainty is unobtainable regardless of range. And, if archery were included no one would ever launch an arrow.

I've never been absolutely certain of a shot, in the truest sense of the word "absolute". but there are definitely degrees of certainty, and for me the key is being disciplined and waiting for the right shot

I separate the "long distance ethical debate" into two issues.
The first is that the long distance hunter must have a realistic
view of their capability. If they are honest with themselves and stick to it, then that is ok by me.

The other issue is just a personal way I want to hunt. I thoroughly enjoy the spot and stalk aspect of elk hunting.
I find it challenging to use the terrain, wind and patience to get as close as possible. The shot therefore becomes almost anti-climatic. One of the most dramatic elk kills I witnessed was that of a buddy, on snow shoes, used a meandering creek, willows and deep snow to sneak up to a herd of 27 elk..
I sat back about a 1/4 mile away on a sunny hillside watching the drama unfold. The elk were watching me, thinking they were safe. The result was one shot at 165 yards 75 minutes later. Good stuff!

Agreed.