Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Realistic Distance For Ethical Kills

I've done a fair bit of shooting out to 1500 yds and realistically I've found that getting on target in what I would consider the kill zone to be 700 yds or less for me. Though I have pulled off some incredible groups at well over 1000 yds for me it's not consistent enouph to warrant shooting at game.

I suppose whats got me thinking about this more than ever is a fella I know who took a shot at an elk with a 338 lapua last week at 1350 yds. It took 4 shots for him to hit the animal and when he finally did he most certainly did not go home with any meat. This individual is an expert tracker and an excellent hunter at that however the allure of wanting a long-range kill under his belt I think has been muddied by not producing an efficient, ethical kill.

Friends....best of luck in your long-range hunting experience but please do it with great pride and respect both for the hunter you are and the animals that provide for our families.

Shod

Shod,

Ethics are a personal decision learned from life experience.
Asking others to help you decide your ethics is either stupid or a deception to impose what you have already decided on others.

So...Which is it with you?

It really depends on how much time and effort a guy has put into developing loads, testing them and practicing.

Long range really reveals any problems with your load with vertical stringing. Practice with verified drop data and wind reading

It's all about the wind once you are confident in the load. Lots of things go wrong at long range and most have to do with wind if the range is known

Why don't you try reading the post before you try to unintelligently answer. I never asked for any help deciding what is ethical for myself....I very clearly stated for myself it was 700 yds or less. My post also never implied that anyone who shot further than 700 yards was an unethical shooter. It implied that the reckless wounding of game is not a good ethic. YES....I'LL PROUDLY STICK TO THAT STATEMENT.

Shod

RC.....thank you for the well thought out and intelligent reply. Though I've done a fair bit of long-range shooting I'm reserving my first long- range hunt for next year. This year being my first year into long-range shooting I've taken to heart what many of the Men who I respect on this forum have stated about lots of practice. I respect you very much sir and thank you for your good advice.

Shod

Obviously your acquaintance is far from proficient at 1350 yards, irregardless of the bullets energy at that distance.
To answer the title of the thread, the distance where you can hit the vitals with certainty and the bullet has enough energy to sufficiently expand. That distance changes by the minute under hunting conditions.

Wapati....thank you for the reply sir. That advice is
greatly appreciated.

Shod

I guess I just don't really understand the whole long range hunting just for the sake of long range hunting thing. I understand wanting to be able to shoot accurately at long distance. I understand taking a long shot if it's all you have or if it's necessary. I agree that its a good idea to become as proficient as possible at all ranges, and I plan to do plenty of practice to become a decent long range shot.

I don't really understand the thought that says "lets see how far away I can get and still hit this animal". If its prairie dogs I don't see an issue, a hit is likely a kill. A big, tough animal like and elk though? Why not get closer, if possible? Is it fair to the animal to risk gut shooting it just so you can brag to your buddies?

Like I said, if you can shoot with confidence at the range presented to you, and it's all you have, I'm fine with that. If a guy wants to see how far he can hit something just so he can brag, grab a piece of [bleep] steel!

For example, a fellow behind the counter at a local gun shop was enlightening me as to the qualities of his new Sako TRG in .338 |Lapua or something. This after I told him |I was kinda looking for a lightweight mountain rifle. He said this was his choice, but it might be hard to find a sheep that was 1200 yards away so he could shoot it. That bothers me. If he said he could hit a 6" target 9/10 times at 1200 yards, and would take the shot if need be, I'd of thought him slightly less idiotic then I did. As it was, he clearly wanted to shoot an animal at a range that would hopefully impress his buddies and customers.

I suppose I'd have to say that you should get close enough to know you can make a good shot, even if your estimates and calculations aren't spot on. Chit happens, try to allow for it. I just never saw a reason not to get closer, if you could. I'd think generally one could sneak just a bit closer than 1300 yards. Just my opinion though, likely worth every penny you paid for it.

I do not have a gun with a drop chart worked up well enough for me to confidently take a 1300 yard shot at a game animal right now. I have 2 weeks but doubt I will have anything ready to shoot past 800. I have in the past had my drops down to the point I would have taken a 1400+ yard shot at a game animal. I have killed pigs at a mile, not nearly that far for a game animal.
With enough work and time I could get ready to shoot past 1K again, but I am just in load development with a new barrel on my ELR rifle.

I used one piece of brass to shoot the first 6 shots out of my new barrel the day before yesterday. One shot to get my POA to intersect with POI. A 3 shot group in the 3s, then 2 shots at my 800 yard target. My drops were pretty close even if I was not happy with the 3 inches of vertical. I am hoping the that light variations were the difference. The shots were taken about 40 minutes apart to simulate a cold bore shot. I will know more tomorrow. It is hard to tell a lot with only six shots down the barrel.



A lot of people think they are ready to make a cold bore 1500 yard shot on big game, few rarely are.

I can attest in southern Oregon, that is not a deterent to many road hunters during elk season around here....

many of these clowns will get out and start banging away at elk, without a clue on how far away they may be....and they keep shooting until they are out of ammo or the elk high tailed it into the closest thicket or grove of trees....

to me the limit is only on how far and how well someone can apply the skills they have learned and knowing their equipment.... not some blind luck shot by some road hunting moron...

Have seen an increase in hopeful banging away here in Montana since long-range hunting became popular. That shouldn't be the way it goes, but there it is. Of course, saw a lot of the same thing years ago as well, but before laser range-finders and "turrets" the boys weren't as likely to hit anything.

This doesn't mean solid first-shot hits aren't possible at longer distances than they used to be, from people who actually shoot quite a bit at longer ranges. But from what I've seen the "take-a-chance" range has been extended considerably.

There are high percentage shots and low percentage shots.

Plenty of people who hunt take shots at running game, well under 100 yards that don't even come anywhere close to making a clean kill, if they hit the animal at all.

To put an arbitrary number such as 700 yards as max indicates to me a novice long range shooter. From one hour to the next conditions can change enough that a shooter who may be comfortable shooting out to 1200 yards in ideal conditions, would choose not to take a shot at 1/4 that distance.

Conditions generally dictate what a max distance is, in regards to a high percentage shot on a game animal or anything else.

The bottom line is that a person should only be taking high percentage shots. It does not matter if it's with a .44 mag or 300 win mag. Kill clean and set a good example.

I cannot stand the longrange spray and pray guys. I cannot ever see making a second shot if you miss the first. If you miss the first shot it is time to reevaluate the accuracy of your range finding, your drop data, or your ability.
I have missed a few times, what I have done more than a few times is set up for a shot got my dope dialed, then refrained from pulling the trigger. It takes some will power to refrain, but if you are not positive of the shot, hold fire.

The "who can shoot the furthest" thing is just another dick measuring contest, similar to SCI.... heck, you can even get into a long range hit club.

It's one thing to be proficient at long range, practicing to enhance one's hit % when the chance to stalk closer is limited...... but to shoot as far as possible simply to best one's buddies or brag on a message board is highly disrespectful to the game, and to the hunting community. We owe the game a chance....if we are shooting from outside of the game's abilities to out-sense and out-maneuver us, we just as well be using artillery or remotely shooting from a computer

Yep. Lots of dudes running around the hills these days who shoot a half box of ammo a year....but after buying a rangefinder, a turreted scope, and watching Shooter on DVD 14 times, are pretty sure they are long range experts.

It's good to see well considered discussion of long range hunting.
My observation has been that those who are not experienced with long range shooting often think it a stunt... or irresponsible. Those who have been doing it know what their rifle can do, and also realize the limitations.
I think RC is right on. Once your ballistic solutions have been field tested and tweaked to be true, wind is revealed as the most difficult variable. Drops remain predictable because gravity doesn't change, but those down and updrafts can sure play hell with a bullets flight.

Mackay Sagebrush,

I'v driven to the range twice a day for months on end to get data for a true cold bore shot under varying temperatures and weather conditions. While it may be true I certainly am a novice being my first year and all I think it would be safe to say I am a novice who is willing to put in the time to get effective first round hits and be able to put a number on best possible scenario as a maximum that I have seen during testing for myself.

I don't feel my number 700 was arbitrary in any way at all because my statement was 700 yds or LESS. The word less makes it a non fixed number allowing for differing circumstances. 700 yds has proved to be the furthest I would consider under close to perfect conditions. I still have a lot to learn and ways to go before I consider taking any such shot. I'm really enjoying the learning process and I believe the most important thing I have learned is........put in the time first! For myself I've decided on two years and that's a lot of practice for a fella that frequents the range a minimum of 3 times a week.

Shod

Wow! In the few minutes I took to post a comment a slew of others were posted... demonstrating yet another observation I have seen on the topic of long range hunting: it doesn't take but a minute before it becomes some sort of pissing match.
For you guys that might be interested in dicussing long rang hunting with other experienced shooters, and without a lot of the BS, take a look at longrangehunting.com

I have not noticed a pissin match in this thread yet, just some opinions some well grounded in experiance and some wild arse guess based on some heart felt ill conceived notions, but no pissin match yet

I posted on LRH for years, ironically I got tired of the pissin matches I have started posting there a little, but there are just so many times you can answer "what is the best scope for......" questions. There used to be a ton of really knowledgeable guys over there who were serious. When Len started banning folks because they would bad mouth sponsers products I lost interest.

I used to love to play dumb about stuff over there, you could get some decent responses. I sometimes do the same here just out of habit. It never hurts to play dumb.

I do sometimes wonder why some people ever open a thread in the LRH section, especially when they do not have a clue and only expose their lack of experiance, or maybe they are just playing dumb.

The difference between cooter bob shooting a running elk in the ass at 100 yards and cooter bob loping bullets at an elk 1k yards away....one more ethical than the other? The high percentage of bow hunters making bad shots at 40 yards unethical? Who knows , obviously not cooter bob. This has been beat to death , its the natural progression of things. Traditional bow hunters hate compounds ,traditional muzzle loader hunters hate in lines , who hate sharps guys who hate center fire guys who hate guys who use scopes who hate guys who use match bullets who hate guys that go on guided hunts who hate guys with bigger dicks than them. Guess it ends there