Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 30-06 Heavy Bullet Powder Question

Hmmmm. My hunt load was 58.5 gr H4831SC w/ 200 NPT this year. I figured I was getting around 2,600 fps. I have an Oehler 35, but did not get around to chronographing this load. I've gotten to 2,950 with H4831 and 180 gr bullets in my 30 Gibbs.

I think AGW summed up the powder issue: the makers change things. Next years lots/batches might well be faster.

I know the area where the factory is experienced 3 years of wetter and more humid than average weather up until about 18 months ago. Maybe the more humid atmosphere during manufacture caused slower lots to be churned out.

I dunno of course. A lot of conjecture.

I always used H4831 for 165's and lighter in my '06. But found too much compression with 190's to make top velocity with H4831.

Using IMR 4831 I could run the Hornady 190 btsp to 2800 fps and have good case life with excellent accuracy. I suspect it would also be a good choice with 200 gr bullets.

If we are talking ADI aka Hodgdon "Extreme" Series, The story goes like this:

ADI was previously called Mulwex, and there was a time when the powder manufacturer was run down and threatened with closure not being really viable and, having a very limited range of not overly desirable powders available, interestingly, called the "AR" series with AR2201 being the most notable, as I recall. (Old blokes used to use it in .222's as I recall)

An unusual thing happened. The Feds stepped in and injected money to refurbish the facility and develop the needs for the Australian Military. My understanding is that there was a very limited number of ships that could transport powders (explosives) and Australia's isolation could be threatened if those ships were known and targeted during a future conflict.

The plant needed to increase the range of powders and generate a market as local needs would only be an impost and not an income generator.

With that, IIRC, Dupont 4350 was used to set a baseline for burning rate and assigned a rating of 100. All powders generated would be set at burning rates a percentage faster or slower than that. Nick Harvey provided samples of the original war surplus 4831 distributed by Hodgdon and rapidly disappearing in the Aussie market by that stage and the first powders were developed and released to the local market.

AR 2209 was released as an equivalent to 4350 but my testing determined it was about 95% the speed of 4350 or just a little faster burning, meaning more like 760. This powder was extruded but the granules cut short and at an angle. The granules also had a predominant yellow hue to their coloration and a stronger ether like smell than you get today. In the early days I chronographed lot to lot variance of up to 6% but no-one cared as we had our own powder and it was cheaper than the imported powders. The 4831 equivalent was called AR2213 but I do not recall the % slower than 4350 but I did note that it was slower than the newer Dupont 4831, which was also a little faster than the Surplus powder designated 4831.

At that time, I believe the Hodgdon range of powder were sourced from Scotland and when that opportunity expired, the Aussie powders had expanded to become a viable alternative.

It was then that I noticed that AR2209 went from being just a little faster than IMR4350 to a little slower and the granule size, shape and color changed with the burning rate.

From my earlier post, you can see why they did not need to announce a change because making a powder slower, lowers pressures and the rifle still goes bang......

Savvy handloaders are always playing with loads and those among us that noticed the difference, simply increased charges to suit.

There were also powders that came and went. I used AR2214 and AR2218 in a .338/378 nearly 20 years back, and had a bunch of Weatherby rifles and calibers wander through my gun rack over that period. There wasn't much I didn't try at some point.

As for the "Extreme" marketing brand, I chronographed loads I brought with me when I immigrated to the US in temperatures close to 20 degrees F and my loads averaged something like within 12fps of the hotter Aussie climate so for me, I had good experiences with the AR powders and because they are distributed by Hodgdon, can continue using them. Hodgdon built a spec for lot to lot variation and that has shrunk considerably over the years to the reasonably consistent burning rates we see today.

John

Great info from Aussie Gun Writer!

It was several years ago, ( and I have related this story before) but a member on another site, asked the question of what was the max performance a person could get out of an 06, with a 200 grain bullet....

that caught my attention, so after consulting a batch of my manuals I noticed the lower pressures listed for H4831SC, and heavier bullets...

so I went to work at the load bench, and utilized three different 06s to test it all out...I came to the conclusion you couldn't get enough H4831SC in an 06 case to exceed SAAMI pressures...

when I posted the info, per usual, I got flamed from one end to the other by those that "knew better".. even tho admitting they had never tried it.... they had just read plenty of books...

one in particular was grilling me relentlessly about having pressure equipment to test it all....

finally someone came on that supported my findings... who got immediately flamed also... and got asked the pressure testing question by Mr Aggressive, and his was response was, 'well yes in matter of fact I do have access to pressure equipment'...

and he invited anyone who wanted to call him to discuss the subject.... I noticed it had a 541 area code which is home in Oregon, so I called it and asked for Mike...as directed...

We had a good conversation and his view was pretty much the same as mine, that the critics evidently had NO hands on experience, and were just talking about "what they had read"....

I wasn't the only person who called evidently....but the thread quickly went to page 4 and 5 within 24 hours....

and when you called "Mike", the receptionist answered the phone.." Nosler Bullets, how can I direct your call?"

Seafire,
That makes sense to me. As I was going to try H4831, behind a 180 in w-w brass if I remember right. I went to start about 4 grains below max and it filled my case up into the neck. I confirmed my powder weight and then gave up on H4831 in a 30-06 case.

No reading here, just 40+years of using 4831. I, however,( with no test equipment) have had hard bolt lifts on 220 gr bullets in the .06 using H4831 powder. My gun seems to max out at 58&1/2 gr of H4831. 59 and things get sticky. Over pressure? ,I don't know, but common sense tells me when things start to not work right, a person needs to back off.
What I like about it is the same load in an .06, with 180 gr bullets will print two inches high at 100 yards that a 220gr will print dead on a at 100. Plus it works very well in 100 gr,.243 loads, 270, 130 gr loads, and 130-140 gr 6.5x57 loads.

4350 might be tad better, but certainly not by a big margin.

Hard and fast rules like you can't get enough H4831 powder in an .06 case with heavy bullets to over pressure can come back and bite you in the butt. To me 180gr bullets in an .06 is not considered a heavy bullet. Tight chambers, tight barrels, thicker brass, a little to much head space???? What is safe in one gun can be devastating in another. As AW said these were HIS loads.

People who like to ride the horse with fastest speeds tend to get into more trouble than those that do not.

Saddle,

my experiences didn't mirror yours, but as we can't say enough... Start lower and work up....

but a Browning, a Model 70 and a 1917 Enfield ( Winchester Made) didn't have an ounce of problems with it.. and each cartridge case was reloaded 10 times, just to verify primer pockets were living right and staying good and tight...