Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Diagnose These Groups Please

The first gun (280 Rem) likes to string vertically...







The second one (270 Win) likes to string horizontally...






So how do I fix these rifles?

BD: I dunno as there are too few shots in the group to diagnose a problem or where to start beyond the basic stuff of float/bed,screws tight etc.

I would keep shooting, first off and see if there isn't a bigger story there somewhere.

You've left a lot of variables out of the equation. Your 280, may just be you: IE, trigger control and breathing. Is it a real light rifle? The 270 has definite problems. Is it bedded? Probably has uneven pressure on one side of the barrel as well...Properly bed that rifle and freefloat it and let us know how it shoots. Start shooting some 5 shot groups too, that will give a better representation of the ability of both shooter and rifle...

A guess, heat and pressure points. Could be the guy behind the trigger as well. Are the barrels free floating? IE take a dollar bill wrap it around and slide it down the barrel. Does it catch any where? Glass bedded on the action etc. Each rifle has its own set of rules.

I would guess the 270 has an action binding/bedding problem.

I would guess the 280 has a barrel contact problem.

The vertical strings look like breathing issues -- the shooter is squeezing the trigger with a different breath hold position on one shot.

your 280 wants to be seated deeper, your 270 longer.

One inch (more or less) groups from your 280 and you are complaining?? What deer will tell the difference?

The 270 needs some work. The 280 is probably you.

Just preliminary, not much to go on here.

re the 280 - the shots aren't numbered. Is the first shot the bottom one and 2 and 3 the higher ones? Was the barrel clean and needed to foul before it settles down? As others have said more shots are needed and a little more information would help.

Jim

What bsa said. For the 280, I'd add grip pressure on the pistol grip. When I do my part, my rifles shoot nice little groups. When I start hanging onto the gun a bit (r.e. gripping the pistol grip in an inconsistent manner), my groups look exactly like your 280 - opens them up to 1.5" or so. For the 280 it looks like a consistency issue with some facet of your form. For the 270, I'd bed and free float it if it was mine. Then follow the aforementioned form/consistency suggestions.

Not enough info.

Does the 270 fit you?.......if the stock is too long or scope too far forward, the shooter often gets the butt out of the pocket and onto upper arm/shoulder......recoil causes rifle to move down arm and produce lateral stinging.....

This is typical "what's wrong with the rifle?" thread. Everybody has a potential answer, but my experience is that it's impossible to tell without the rifle in hand, partly because it could be so many things. And that's true here, of both rifles.

Nobody has mentioned scopes, which are always high on my list of potential problems.

The plot thickens......

...but it's still fun to ponder the possibilities, even if they are nothing but speculation. My initial thoughts, before reading other's opinions was shooter on the 280 (or slightly inconsistent forend rest) and some mechanical issue on the 270 (magazine binding, barrel contact, etc.). Inconsistent cheek pressure also causes horizontal, but that's really a lot. Regarding the notion of seating deeper to fix one and shallower to fix another, I've read that elsewhere, but don't really understand how that works. Seems the idea is to time with barrel harmonics, but wouldn't moving either way accomplish that? Why does one direction fix vertical and vice versa? I've also learned through my own frustrations that 3-shot groups suck. There's always the one stray and you can never really tell if it's the odd one out, just a bad shot, or really conclude anything.

Or it could be the mystical Chit happens rule.Face the facts"The bullets got to go somewhere." I sure would not worry about the 280.

Yes. More info. Any pattern in each string? I.e. left to right, top to bottom, random placement?

Did one switch between rifle/targets between shots? Fouling shots? Clean/cold/warming barrels?

I find it best to do the standard things to the gun as mostly mentioned above first.
Then do you best to follow good and consistent bench protocol. Then analyze five shot groups.
Then you may have to go back to re do some of the "fixes" to the gun or start tweaking the bullet/powder/seating for small improvements.
..but,I do shoot them first, before doing the improvements, just to see what I have to start with.
I am not a gun writer so.....
jmho
Tim

That about sums it up. First thing that comes to mind every time I see this same post is what kind of rifle? is it a POS, What is the shooters ability in shooting and hand loading. I always wonder if the person is capable of putting a load together an shooting a sub .5 group.

Looks like the .280 is ready to roll for hunting. Unless for some reason you've built a BR rifle chambered in the .280... Really, this reminds me of my brother-in-law calling me before Thanksgiving and telling me that his .30-06 "isn't shooting worth a crap anymore" and he sent me a 5-shot, 3" group. I did the load development and load the ammo. So we went to the range. I had him shoot it. 5-shot, 3" group. So I asked him to let me shoot it. 5-shot, 3/4" group, just like it did when I did load development. I told him to get out his .22 LR and work on breath control, trigger control, and follow-through.

There are so many things that could be "wrong" here, not the least of which is the shooter - and I'm not saying you're a bad shooter - but we all have our bad days. If it's a proven accuracy load in either rifle, then something MAY have changed. I'd leave the .280 alone - the .270 looks like something is wrong, but who knows. Shoot some 10-shot groups and post the results, with more details about the rifle, scope, mounts, history, etc. That will reveal more information.