Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles .35 Whelen barrel twist vs. bullet weights

I saw in a thread on the Gunwriter forum a mention of something I had suspected -- the 1:16" twist in the Remington 35 cal rifles isn't the best for 250 grain bullets.

So I have a couple questions:
1. If you had a 1:12" or 1:14" twist barrel for a .35 Whelen, would that affect the accuracy of the 158 gr pistol bullets appreciably (particularly within 100 yds)?

2. What 250 grain bullets have you used in a .35 Whelen, how did they perform, and what was the barrel twist rate? Also, have you had any problems with any 225 gr bullets in a 1:16" twist gun?

I'm intrigued with the .35 Whelen for animals larger than deer (bear, elk, moose), and I'm wondering what the barrel twist trade-offs are because if I get a .35 Whelen I will want to shoot 250 gr for big game and shoot pistol bullets for some extra low-cost, low recoil practice.

I have a Remington 700 CDL in 35 Whelen which sports a 1 in 16" twist barrel. It shoots Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 225 grain factory fodder in groups of three ranging from 1 1/4" to 1 1/2." I got minute-of-barn door with Nosler Custom 250 grain Nosler Partition ammunition. Superior Ammunition found a magic recipe using Barnes Triple-Shok 225 grainers closing in at 1."

There's a barrel maker up here in Canada that makes a 14" twist 35 barrel. I've chambered three of them to 35 Whelens and they all shoot 250's very well..225's too. I'll be doing another in 350 Rem Mag soon. I wasn't aware that the 16" twist was a problem with 250's...?

It's not a problem. I can introduce you to a few 358 Wins as well as 35 Whelens that shoot just fine with 1:16 twist barrels.

My buddy, Bert's 358 Winchester has an 18 1/2" Remington factory 16 twist barrel. He shoots 250 gr Speer and Hornady spitzers into an inch with them starting off at a mere 2250 fps. The Whelen will launch them 200 fps faster than that.

My wife's Model Seven has a 20" Shilen barreland all she uses is the 250 Speer spitzer.

I agree that spitzer bullets heavier than 250 gr might need a faster twist, but the 1:16 is fine for everything up to 250 gr.

Ted

Yukoner has a lot more .35 cal experience than I do, so I'd listen to him.

That said, I had trouble with three different 700 Classics in .35 Whelen shooting 250 grain Speers. By trouble, I'm talking 1.5 - 2 inch groups. That's not bad, but compared to the 1/2 inch groups 225's and 200's shot, it was bad! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The 250's were going in the neighborhood of 2350'ish. 225's were 2550 fps.

Personally, if I was going to build a Whelen, I'd go with a 14 inch twist. 12 inch if you're going to shoot heavier than 250's.

I couldn't imagine messing up the 158's that bad within 100 yards. You might have to back off on the velocity a bit though.

Teeder,...you have to set your purse down when you load the Whelen <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Your 250's should go minimum 2500 and the 225's should go minimum 2600....maybe it would have shot better with more powder?..

my 24" tube pushes 225's to 2725 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ive had very consistant 1"-1.2" 3 shot groups in my 35 whelen (remington slide action rifle) of a sand bag rest at 100 yards
http://www.gricewholesale.com/specials_7600.php

useing SPEER 250 grain bullets over SEVERAL POWDERS, seat the bullets out to the max length the rifle will function with and use a federal #215 primer, theres not much advantage in useing a 35 whelen if you are not going to use the 225-250-275 grain bullets.
the slide action rifle in 35 whelen is close to ideal for jumping ELK in the thick dark timber where shot ranges seldom exceed 150 yards,but it works very effectively out to 300 yards or so with a 3.5" high sight in at 100 yards, as that puts the bullet in the chest easily out to 250 yards (dead on at 230 yards) with a center hold and to well over 340 yards with the horizontal cross hair on the back line

try
these powders, with the speer 250 grain, but work up from below as I don,t know how YOUR rifle pressures will be

55 grains of IMR 4320
55 grains of IMR 4064
54 grains of WW748
54 grains of IMR 4895
53 grains of H335

You're probably right! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Can't remember the exact loads with the 250's, but the 225's were 55 grains of either IMR 4895 or 4064. These shot so well I never went further.
Now my .338-06 is pushing 225's at nearly 2700 with RL-15, which will do anything I'll ever need.

Still, something about a CDL in .35 Whelen calls to me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

My experience with my 700 CDL .35 Whelen has been contrary to conventional wisdom.

I haven't found a 225 gr bullet it will shoot well, and I haven't found a 250 gr bullet that it won't. It shoots the Rem factory 250gr corelokt ammo into easy 1" groups.

I hope to kill a Montana black bear next week with the Rem factory load.

Just goes to show you that every rifle is different I guess.

Speaking of bears and Whelens. My friend just got back from Vancouver Island on a blackie hunt. He whacked a 6 1/2 footer with his classic .35 Whelen using 225 TSX's. He said it was at a hard quarter towards him, and hit it in the shoulder. The bullet exited the offside ham. Don't know any more details yet.

Teeder,

I think rembo has pointed you in the right direction. Unless you have a particularly slow barrel, you should be getting at least a hundred fps more velocity without leaning too hard on your rifle or the brass.

I can get 2350 in Marg's 358 Win, but it is a bit more recoil than she wants, and the 250s deck moose, caribou and bear just fine at 2250. Brass lasts forever, too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ted

I've used the 250 Speer SP, Speer GS and Hornady SP in my 700 classic with 1:16 twist.

I get great accuracy with 250 speer and 225 sierra. Last summer I shot a group at 200 yards with the 250 speers that was well under an inch. (haven't done it since) I average about 1" at 100 yds with the same load.

Haven't shot any pistol bullets yet.

Ramblin Razorback,

I have always read that overstabilized bullets are more accurate than understabilized bullets. Thus, 158 gr. pistol bullets will likely come apart in a 1~12" twist if pushed very hard. That's not saying they won't be accurate at reduced velocities.

I have owned 3 Whelens, and still have 2- .35 Whelen AI's in the safe. I have also owned 4- .350 Rem Mags... And still have two of them. And out of the 5- .358 Winnies I have owned, still have 3. So:

If I were building a Whelen to shoot exclusively 250 gr. or heavier bullets, I wouldn't even consider going anything other than a 1~12" twist. Throw 225 gr. bullets into the mix, and I'd go 1~14" twist.

I would only go 1~16" if I were to shoot cast bullets exclusively!

If one wants to shoot 180 or 200 gr. bullets one might better have a .30-06. It's impossible to make one cartridge do everything well. At some point you lose something. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
JMHO... FWIW. Hope it helps... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Grasshopper

that's better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />....Rel15 is all I've used in my Whelen..tried it, 4064 and Varget.......settled on 60grs of Rel15 under the 225 Partition for 2725fps.........

and there's something about the CDL in a Whelen that beckons to me too...local shop has one that I have to ogle every time I'm in there.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

After seeing what RL-15 did for my .338, that would be the first place I'd go if I had another Whelen.

The local shop just got another CDL Whelen in. I've been trying to thin down my safefull, but it's getting hard to resist! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

RR, my 35 W is built on a Rem. 721 action. The barrel is a 1-12 twist Lilja. I have only shot 200 and 250 grain bullets so far. The 200's shoot every bit as accurate as the 250's. Deadly accurate! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Powder of choice is RL-15. There is not really that much price difference between the lighter bullets and the heavies. The ony 225 grn. bullets I've put through mine were some factory Federal TBBC's. They would shoot 3/4" @ 100 yrds. The 200's are Hornady's. The 250's are Speer and Hornady's.

Because I have the 1-12 twist, I will soon be playing with some heavier bullets this summer.

FWIW - of all my guns, the 35 Whelen is my all time favorite.

Best To Ya .. BP...

RAMBLIN_RAZORBACK:

My 700 custom 35 Whelen has a 16" twist, and I have no problem getting 250's to group under 1" @ 100yds.

As I have a 375 H&H I have no desire to shoot bullets heavier than 250 grains in my Whelen. If I did perhaps, I would choose a 12", etc.

I shoot 56 grains of 4064, have since the 1970's, with a 250 Speer Hotcore, I am getting over 2600fps. This out of a 24" barrel. A 225 Ballistic Tip gives me 2750 + or -, and great groups.

Don't overlook the 225 grain Ballistic Tip. It does a great job on elk. I shot a cow elk here in Arizona, and the recovered bullet weighed 206 grains, really great performance.

Good Luck

Jerry

I have two 700's in .35 Whelen. A Classic and a BDL. They both have 1 in 16 twist and long throats. This is not a happy combination. The slow twist works better for the lighter (shorter) bullets, but you can't seat the bullets close to the lands because of the long throat. I was able to get some reasonable accuracy with 225's at 100 yards, but at 200 they were all over the place. I finally settled on a load for the Classic using the Hornady 200 grain PSP. I have the bullet seated out way farther than I ever thought I could get away with, about half a caliber. FWIW this Hornady seems to be a pretty tough bullet, after a few deer and hogs I haven't recovered one. The BDL is just now on it's way back home from one of my favorite gunsmiths with a Shilen barrel. I went with a 1 in 14 twist, and plan on shooting a 225 Nosler Partition. I have no experience with pistol bullets in this caliber. As far as the 1:16 twist being a problem, obviously it is not a problem for everyone, but contact a few barrel manufacturers and see if you can find one that will reccomend it for ANY bullet weight!

I, too, figure I'll dust off my .375 if I need a bullet heavier than 250 gr. My whelen with its 1:14 and RL15 consitently shoots moa, and less if I have the right target (I have heavy crosshairs in the low power scope, so it is mightily field reliable, but targets can be tough to see that finely at 100 yards). Considering that nothing I've shot with the Hornady 250s has failed to die right quickly, I'm happy.

I do intend to play with some 180s, though, and see about working up a flat shooting antelope load.

I have the Rem. Classic in .35 Whelen, so a 1 in 16 twist. My rifle has had great accuracy, MOA or less with nearly everything I have shot in it. Factory 200 and 250s as well as Fed. 225 gr. TBBC. Handloads with Sierra 225 gr. BT over 58 gr or RL 15 also goes under one inch. With Nosler Custom ammo, I get right under 1 inch with the 250 gr. and just over 1 inch with the 225 gr.