Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Montana tinkering....

I get several PM's asking questions about what I do to improve accuracy with Kimber Montana's. I've decided to start a thread detailing the steps I take and the things I look for shortly after buying one.

First and foremost, I'm not a gunsmith. These "improvements" weren't mine by design. I asked several questions to several guys on here that assisted me in the process. I'd love for those guys to chime in and add value to the thread too. Everybody has their own methods.

This isn't intended to be a Kimber bashing platform. I'm a huge fan of the rifle. To be perfectly honest, I had some troubled rifles in the beginning of my journey and swore them off a few times. I kept going back because NOTHING feels as good in my hands as the 84M Montana. I learned a few tricks and the rifles soon started to perform up to my expectations. I've owned a few -- my 20th is in route.

This isn't a thread of arrogance. Several guys on here have more rifle knowledge and experience than I possess. I just want to explain in detail what I learned through others and tinkering. I'd rather do this here than go through the process many times via PM.

More to follow...

The first potential accuracy robbing issue hides inside the stock. The last several Montana's I've owned have an issue with the mag box. The mag box has been longer than necessary and this creates undo stress and torque on the action.

The Kimber mag box has three protrusions (223 has three plus the spacer). The protrusions bottom out and won't allow the magazine to "float". The picks below are from a Mountain Ascent. Same insides, just painted a different color.

Note the black spots in the bottom of the stock. This is where the protrusions bottom out and remove the paint/dig into the stock.



The pics below are of the bottom of the mag box. Notice the paint residue on the protrusions.

Tag

The binding mag box creates several issues. Besides the oblivious, I think it creates a bigger issue with Kimber rifles.

The action is small and doesn't have much beef in the metal underneath. I believe the action flexes under recoil and a binding mag box amplifies the problem.

More pics from the Ascent below, but the white paint really shows rubbing well. With the mag box bound, the barrel shank wasn't fully seated against the slave bedding -- which is another problem, but we'll get to that in a bit.

Note the rubbed spots in the shank area of the stock, barrel and tang.







This action was moving upon recoil. You'll never achieve any level of acceptable accuracy with the action moving around in the stock.

The fix for the mag box is simple. Ten minutes with a Dremel and the protrusions are ground down a little. I measure the mag box before I start grinding with a caliper. I try to take off about .050".

I don't want to remove too much, just enough. I reassemble the rifle -- minus the follower and spring -- and torque accordingly. Open the bolt, stick a couple fingers in the action and make sure it has a little wiggle room. If the box is still binding, it won't budge. It should move a little side to side at this point.

If all is good, I polish the metal a little where I've been grinding and hit it with a blue pen.

Tag

As I stated before, I believe the action flexes upon recoil. Kimber's slave bedding aides that issue. The recoil lug is small and the lug inlet in the stock is spacious.

In my opinion, the lug needs to be bedded tight to eliminate this issue. Some guys bed the entire action, some drop a dab in the lug recess and some guys give everything a nice skim bedding.

I usually bed the action forward of the mag well, the lug and a portion of the shank. I also left the shank area free of bedding and allowed the barrel to float all the way to the lug. This has worked well too.

I prep the stock with a Dremel and alcohol, then tape it off.

The pics below show the method I use when I float the barrel all the way back to the lug. Doing this, I only apply bedding to the sides and back of the lug recess. You'll still get some ooze on the front of the lug



After bedding compound is in the stock...



I don't tape the bottom or front of the lug. I know some do, but I want it tight on a Kimber. After the bedding cures, I usually Dremel out the bedding in the bottom of the lug well so it doesn't bottom out.

Awesome buddy!! The same can be said for other makes like the model 70's. This thread should be a sticky...Brad will probably chime in on a few things he has found on the Kimbers as well.

Great idea, SAS, thanks for taking the time to post up your remedies.

I use a bedding stud from Brownells (same as 700) to make sure I have things centered nicely in the front pillar. I tape the stud to allow for minimal clearance and then start spraying. I use Hornady One Shot as my release agent and I've never had a problem. I spray everything (with the stud in), let it dry, then spray again.







Once the action is in the stock, I insert the action screw in the tang. I tighten the screw two-finger tight. I do nothing to the front stud. My goal is totally stress free bedding.

Forgot to mention -- I put a couple of wraps of tape on the barrel near the end of the forearm. I do this to keep the barrel centered in the channel. You can also adjust the spacing of the barrel in the channel when inserting the tang screw. I do both to make sure things are straight..

I use AcraGlas Gel. Other bedding compounds work too, it's just what I started with. My comfort level is there with the product

I let the bedding cure a minimum of 10 hours. I've tried popping it out earlier, but the results were poor for me.

After 5-6 hours, I take a toothpick and clean the bedding ooze from the sides of the action. I wait until it's firm enough to make a nice clean break from the bedding in the stock. The compound will still be a little tacky at this point, but most of the elasticity will be gone. I keep the unused bedding compound to use as a hardening gauge.

I pop the action out of the stock and inspect.



These pics are from a Montana that I bedded under the shank.





I then take an a Exacto knife and trim things up. I remove any excess, trim around the pillar hole and get everything out of the mag well. I don't have a pic in photobucket after I trimmed....but take out everything that doesn't need to be there.

Back to the mag box....

For those of you with a 223 or 204, the pic below show the rear of the mag box with the spacer protrusion.



The spacer always digs into the stock because of the elevated edges in the mag well.



Rather than completely shorten the spacer protrusion, I just shorten it a bit with a Dremel and then do some stock inletting. I basically remove enough of the hump in the bottom of the mag well to allow the magazine to float. It takes a few seconds with a Dremel.

Another accuracy robbing issue I often encounter is the length of the front base screw. I only use Talley LW low's on a Montana. The front most screw is longer than needed. The bottom of the screw bottoms out on the barrel threads. This prohibits the base from being fully seated and allows the front of the base to move. Not to mention the fact that you could be messing with barrel harmonics...

The picture below shows shiny spots on the threads. They don't look like this from the factory. The shiny, flattened spots are a direct result of the screw making contact. I don't have a "before" picture in Photobucket, you'll have to trust me on this...



The pic below shows all four base screws AFTER the front screw has been shortened. All four screws are the same length when shipped from Talley. I shortened the screw on the far left with a Dremel. I'm posting this pic as a reference as to how much I take off the screw.

Hitting the nail on the head with everything so far. I see things that would simplify your approach and get the same results. But looking very good so far. Like I said before, a lot of these same things can be done to the model 70 to insure your going to come out on top in the accuracy dept. Good thread, carry on...

Which gave better results, bedding the lug and shank or just the lug?

The front action screw is also an enemy. It's too long as well and bottoms out in several Montana's I've owned as of late.

The pics below aren't great and it's hard to see what I'm referencing. In person, the results are glaring. The screw makes contact and polishes things up a bit. As usual, if your front action screw isn't fully seated groups will open up considerably.

Some guys use lipstick or a magic marker to check this. I've done so in the past. The action below was as new, then after about 20 shots. Things are polishing up and showing me the screw needs some attention.

As new...



After...

Hard to compare, but the most accurate Kimber I've ever owned had only the lug bedded. It was floated all the way back...

Thx. I have a 270 wsm that is showing great potential....I think one of these easy fixes might just make it perfect.

Look at the mag box first. I think that's the modification that makes the biggest impact. Bedding is good too, but nothing will work if the mag box is too long.

Thanks for the advice

I bedded my .223 this AM (waiting anxiously), the mag box was digging in real bad. Will take notice of the other screws also.

Thanks for the thread and the effort

I sure wish these Kimber tricks would work on other rifles.

Good stuff. Mirrors what I did to mine. I lightened the trigger just a tad and also shot part of the Tubbs Final Finish kit to really even out the barrel. I had no issues with the mag box. I bedded the shank as well as the lug.

I realize your comment was in jest....

But these are truly the biggest culprits to Kimber's reputation in my opinion. No real tricks involved, just a few minutes of tinkering. I find these issues with every Kimber I purchase, not just a random few.

The trigger can be adjusted to perfect and the crown can be improved, but the things I listed are the most detrimental out of the box.

....and yes, Kimber should address all of this before we open the box.

Great thread Darrik!


To be honest I'm not into dicking around with rifles that much but it really is pretty quick and easy to bed/tweak a Montana.

Love my 243, have a grand total of 1-2 hours into getting it good to go. Didn't even fiddle with the 257 Roberts and it shoots almost as good as Tikka......grin!

I never left.

Rifles with tupperware stocks, plastic trigger guards and parts, protruding plastic magazines, and even short action rounds chambered in long actions are far too common. In fact common is a perfect word for them.

The Kimber Montana is unique in the market, as I expect the Forbes rifles will be.

The Forbes rifle is right up there with Unicorns and Sasquatch as far as I can tell.


They don't really exist, but people SWEAR they saw one for realsies.

My main gripe with my Kimber 84L was a short front action screw

A Remington rear action screw from Brownell fixed it

If you're talking stainless, that's true, but there's quite a few 24B's in blue around.

I actually passed on the first (and still only) 20B I have seen (I didn't need a 308, and want stainless too). It didn't last long.

Here it is:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=380401080

Good thing I didn't see it! The serial number is 10 -- Rick told me they built 10 in the first run. I bet Melvin had a hand in these...

The next batch is 50, first 7-08's. I have one coming with a stainless barrel and a Hunter Green stock.

Can't wait!

Great thread Darrik, thanks for taking the time.

Sorry I didn't think to PM you.

Once I decided to pass I gave a heads-up to a guy I knew was waiting for one.

It lasted a lot longer than I thought it would.

Your order sounds like a dupe of what mine would be.

I was always ascared of spending my hard earned money on a Kimber,but now I sees a glimmer of hope. Mebbe by next Xmas,the stars will align.

They seem handy and prolly even dandy.

I full bedded mine with great results

You could add a bunch here. What about the action modification for increased COAL?

Yep, just yanking your chain and it's all good information. I bet you are referring to some action grinding, I would like to see that posted again too.

Rifles is rifles and many are in a hurry to forget that. There's no "Magic" involved and Starting At The [bleep] Start will ALWAYS bear fruit. The vast majority of "issues" I've seen,are due to incorrect assembly. I still loves to procure rifles,that "don't shoot".

To reliably arrange happiness and harmony,one needs to savvy twist/throating/COAL latitude...so he can kiss,find pressure and rock on,which is where the warm/fuzzy reliably resides.

A magbox Spacer Shim Slide,is a breeze on all things made out of metal,but things can get phony fast on Barbie Doll Schit(Tikka for example). The Spacer Shim Slide is a more involved affair upon a CRF platform,because there is more schit going on and not nearly as simplistic as PF,so are more problematic by their very nature. Hardly Rocket Science or an 82 Trick Move venture,but things rate a thunk.

I'll not beat it up here,if only because I've lined it all out,on Threads dedicated to same. Happiness is a rifle with the requisite RPM to spin the projectile of intent,that will feed kisses of same from it's belly. Very easy to gun issued COAL ammo and fodder slated the throat in extrapolation,then weigh them findings wayyyyyyy in advance of everything. Lotsa dots reliably get connected in sucha fashion.

Lotsa folks are eager to get the cart in front of the horse and I'll never understand why.

Curious.

Thanks for the post, I have a couple of 84Ms and appreciate the information.

Gotta pull my 84m apart and check all these tips out.

Thanks
Eric

Thanks SAS! I will be bedding the lug on my 7mm08 Montana. It has huge gaps on both sides which can't be good. My mag box is good to go from the factory as well as the trigger. It shoots pretty well now but I'm sure it can be better with a "tweak"

Hey SAS, what in/lbs are you tightening the action screws to.
Also, is there away to increase the magazine length for more coal

Thanks for your time
Eric

I go 45 on both....but I've been known to go tighter too. Some guys go tighter, but that's where I stay. The action is pillar bedded and should be good to go once a true bedding job has been completed.

If your mag box is binding, the tighter you go the worse things get.

308 magazine or 223 magazine?

For clarity, these are simple things you should check out on every rifle you purchase. I identified them as Kimber Montana issues because EVERY Montana I've owned of late shared these common traits.

With the 20th in route, I consider it more than just a consequence.

Thanks Darrek. Good stuff. Maybe Kimber has listened to you. I just checked my 84L montana and the mag box was not binding. However the front screw on the talley lightweight did make contact. A simple file pass or two and it no longer hits the barrel threads.

thanks again

Please take this as a question, and not to open a wrath of sh- - on this thread. With issues such as SAS said...."I identified them as Kimber Montana issues because EVERY Montana I've owned of late shared these common traits", as well as numerous documented other issues on these forums, I have to as why are the Kimber faithful so in love with these rifles? I'm just curious as to why people think they're so great if most every one requires tinkering and fiddling around with to get to perform? Thanks.

for me its cause they are light enough to make them real nice to pack in the hand as much as possible when hunting broken country or thick timber.....an extra pound in the pack and no one is gonna notice...an extra pound on the shoulder(slung) and everyone will notice but wont bother most....however that extra pound in the hand does make a hell of a difference for bout anyone and if yah dont think so im guessing your rifle stays on your shoulder most of the time.....

plus with my chit knees i am limited to how much total i can carry and a lil bit off the rifle can be traded for water and keep me out longer as i get dehydrated easier than most...

JG --

The tinkering I suggested really doesn't take much work. A few minutes and all is good.

I consider the Kimber ergo's to be the best of the best. I love the weight and the CRF action. The trigger is as good as any after market hunting trigger I've encountered. Stainless, ADL, nice factory stock --- great value for $1100.

How much lighter is it than a T3 Lite? I've had 4 knee surgeries btw, and I carry my stuff across sand and sandhills. You'd guess wrong in my case about keeping it strung on my shoulder (if that was directed at me). You're starting to sound like safariman....every post you make lately sounds like you whining about your health or physical condition.

SAS, makes perfect sense.

i dont have a T3 Lite....do know my Montana in 260 with steel bases, scope, sling and 4 in the mag weights less than my wifes Remington Seven Youth in 7-08 with no scope, bases, rings, sling and an empty magazine.....plus the Montana has a more normal barren contour and length

JGR,

As already pointed out once or twice, the tweaks advocated doesn't just apply to Kimber. It's an excellent check list one should go through for every bolt action rifle no matter the manufacturer.

Everything that has been posted is not that difficult, and doesn't take a trained gunsmith to sort out. Nor does it involve a tremendous amount of time or money.

People don't seem to realize that what you're actually getting for the dollar is a bargain. Where else would one obtain a scaled down stainless steel CRF 3-posi safety rifle that tips the scale at just a little over 5lbs, and already comes equipped with a McMillan comparable synthetic stock for 900-1300 dollars and points and handles like a dream in the hunting fields???

Even IF I were be so unlucky as to acquire a Kimber that doesn't shoot because of a POS barrel (I've rebarreled two, and not because of a POS standard barrel), I'd still not bat an eye. Even if I had to screw on an aftermarket tube, it's still worth the price of admission IMHO.

I've been fortunate to own, handle, and hunt with a lot of different rifles over the years. When it comes to a factory mass produced off the shelf rifle, Kimber as a total package is far and away head and shoulders above the rest IME.

Obviously, for some folks YMMV.

I'd swing along with what Fosteology said. The Kimbers are pretty unique in terms of the features wrapped in a package for the money. Over the years I have seen precious few factory rifles that did not benefit from some judicious tweaking...certainly some needed nothing at all, but many benefit from the kind of treatment guys have discussed on here.

I have never carried a Kimber in the field except for the Varmint models but that isn't because I wouldn't. I have owned and shot 6-8 of them.

When you finish the same kind of tweaks you do on most any factory rifle you have something light weight and easy to carry , "normal" barrel length for the intended cartridge, a well proportioned and designed stock (wood or synthetic),and enough accuracy for any rational use.

Even in a custom or semi-custom rifle to get the same weight reductions and features, you have to shell out substantially more dough and I am not sure you end up any better off.

I think a Montana in 7/08 and 7mm WSM are about as good as a guy can get in their respective power categories, and in a factory rifle for the money. No flies on the 84L in long action chamberings either.

You summed it up pretty well Darrik.


I used to be one of those guys that never owned/shot a Kimber and always wondered why guys were willing to play 'Kimber Roulette'. Or have to 'fiddle with them' to get 'em to shoot.

Negative reports from 6-8 years ago were fairly common. I bought a couple (new)Sako's instead of Kimbers just because I wanted a really 'accurate' rifle. Hell I didn't even reload at the time!


For the last 10 months the only rifle I ever want use/bring along is that 243 Kimber. I just love the way it handles and carries. Great stock, great trigger, nice action, it's a rifle that can actually get used and basically last forever.





JG, the .243 with one of Pat's MT slings and 4 cartridges weighs 6 lb 11 oz..

Should be around 6.5lbs with just the rifle and scope.


A .308 would be even lighter with it's skinnier barrel. Too light for me but that is subjective. The 243 and 257 models have plenty of barrel, handle great, not whippy at all. I would love to get an 84L in 270.

Honestly I've never got a new rifle of any manufacture that never had some of these issues. Sakos with bound magazines, bolt releases that don't release, and crappy injection moulded floppy stocks on a rifle that cost more than kimbers. New winchester that I bought last weekend that has really creepy trigger, bound magazine and a crown that is damaged, Remington's with terrible triggers, off centre chambers, out of alignment scope mounting holes. Savages that are so rough and clunky I don't even want to work on them. Kimber doesn't in any way have a monopoly on sloppy assembly or poor machining. Thing is with kimbers you get a rifle that you can work on, do a few judicious adjustments and have a real hummer rifle without having to resort to purchasing aftermarket stocks, triggers etc while ending up spending more to get the same end result in rifles that generally weigh at least a pound heavier.

These "tweaks" are just standard checks on any bolt action rifle. They are not Kimber specific. For example, I've experienced all of those he has mentioned on Remington Model Sevens that I dearly love.

What SAS has done for us is collate the most common "tweaks" he sees on Kimbers into one post so that they are easy to find.

im much the same....the Montana just fits me and im far more likely to grab it than any other of my big game rifles even if im just road hunting for yotes and not planning on packing it anywhere.....it was just a flat out well thought out design....nice and trim and light and unlike most production light rifles isnt horribly muzzle light/arse heavy.....my wife loves her rem seven youth but its heavier than my 84M, though lighter than most production guns and horribly muzzle light to me.....

JG . . . I didn't see that anybody directly answered your question about weight, so I'll try.

According to Kimber, the 84M weighs 5lbs. 2oz. in 7-08 or 308, 5lbs. 4oz. in 243 and 257, and 5lbs. 6oz. in 204 and 223.

The Tikka technical specification says the T3 Lite is 6lbs. 3oz. in standard calibers.

So the short answer is, about a pound lighter.


You can see the specs here:

http://www.tikka.fi/pdf/specs/LiteStainless.pdf

http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/model-84m/montana




.

7-08 that I had Ackleyerized....the only thing I wish, is that I could play around with bullet seating depth more.
Other then that I love this rifle

Eric

'Raider,

Your sheer and utter cluelessness,remains magnificent in it's magnitude.

Congratulations?!?

The only thing you shoot is your mouth and Imagination and I find it curious that you are always in such a hurry to reiterate same.

Wow +P.










'123,

You've no box moves,but had great opportunity at the punch-out,to setback and throat as per whim in accords to OEM confines.

Hint.

65 in/lbs is spec fwiw.

My buddy and I just went through these steps on his new Kimber Mt 7-08 to fix his rifle. Once scope rings arrives, we'll see how it shoots. I have rather high expectations.

Pretty funny though that Kimber on the phone admitted to shipping out all their recent rifles with too big of an action screw, that bottomed out. Well done Kimber. (grin)

I'm in the market for a 7-08 MT if anybody knows of one.

Tag

Mon"tinker"

The only thing I shoot consistently is big zzzz mule deer bucks, on the place that you were too much of a panzyazzz, broke, drunken, midget to show up for a potentially free hunt. You got the lip service part down pat though.

As I told you before.....chew on this half man....."Como le dije antes, puedo comprar todas sus cosas con el dinero en mi bolsillo."

Shortactionsmoker,

As a Kimber 84M owner really appreciate this thread! Well done.


Any fixes for creep on the trigger?

regards
JohnT

You should be able to get rid of the creep with the sear engagement adjustment.

JG, what does it cost to shoot one of those deer?

'Raider,

I always get a kick out of your Whining Do Nothing Kchunt! Bless you heart. You poor stupid [bleep],it's a shame you are too stupid to savvy how [bleep] stupid you are. Laffin'!

You keep telling yourself that Texas,Spanish and Free...is the way to roll.

Wow +P+.

You damned near thought about saying sumptin' about a rifle,but KNOWED better.

Laffin'!










JohnT,

Anyone asking a question like that,had best not be [bleep] around with adjusting a trigger(ANY trigger). Take it to someone with a clue.

Hint.










Sammo,

The fences help her a smidge.(grin)

Any chance someone could explain this process?

I just last night figured out how to do it on a Remington. No clue about a Kimber. Sorry.

Shame once again a very good thread has to get chit on by certain people.

Couple definitions of a certain someone that I think fit well?


Narcissistic Adult Bully: This type of adult bully is self-centered and does not share empathy with others. Additionally, there is little anxiety about consequences. He or she seems to feel good about him or herself, but in reality has a brittle narcissism that requires putting others down.

Verbal Adult Bully: Words can be quite damaging. Adult bullies who use this type of tactic may start rumors about the victim, or use sarcastic or demeaning language to dominate or humiliate another person. This subtle type of bullying also has the advantage - to the bully - of being difficult to document. However, the emotional and psychological impacts of verbal bullying can be felt quite keenly and can result in reduced job performance and even depression.


This was on tv a few weeks back, just googled it and sure enough here it is. Think it hits all the marks fairly well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXXH3QTm7o

Thanks cal. Agreed.

I think this thread is very good. Thanks SAS and others. I am wondering about removing the trigger creep as well.

'gwe,

Triggers is easy,but folks asking such questions...had best leave it to others.

That'll save 'em cooking schit off.

Hint.









'74,

I see you are far more at ease in Whining,than you are talking 'bout rifles. Congratulations?!? Mebbe take your hurt feelers and scroll along and let the men talk. Hint.

You Whining Kchunts are a hoot!

Simply shut the [bleep] up,take notes and apply same...if only because it'll much improve your game.

Hint.











'nautique,

I find it fascinating,that you Boobs stick your heads so deeply up your asses,so as to miss these most simplistic of matters.

You can only be lead to water,but it IS funny,when you don't drink.

Hint.

If you are stupid enough to be asking about a trigger's adjustment,you assuredly shouldn't be [bleep] with a trigger's adjustment. Hint.

Who dresses you in the morning and chews your food for you?

Wow.

Actually, the trigger adjusts similar to the old style Remington.

I don't have a rifle in front of me -- I'm at work, so bear with me.

The trigger housing has three screws, two on the front and one on the back. IIRC, all screws are Allen, but the front two also have a hex nut.....I think (going off memory) the rear is just an Allen.

You'll first need to remove the red material prohibiting the nuts and screws from turning.

The two screws on the front adjust over travel (top screw) and weight of pull (bottom screw). The screw in the rear is sear engagement.

Once the nuts are loose, back out the front screws a bit.

With the rifle cocked, tighten the rear screw until the firing pin drops. (You can actually see sear engagement through a small hole in the housing). Back the screw off 1/4 turn.

Work the bolt so the rifle is cocked and tighten the over travel (top front) screw until it makes slight contact with the trigger.

Pull the trigger. Adjust the weight of pull to your liking.

Tighten the hex nuts. Work the bolt and dry fire the rifle several times. Take a rubber mallet and bang the tang to make sure the rifle doesn't accidental discharge.

If all is good, apply your choice of thread locker on the hex nut and screws to prohibit movement.

Again -- I'm doing this from memory, I don't have a rifle in front of me. It's a pretty simple process once you've done a few.

JGRaider, I often have the same question of Remington 700s. Why do folks keep buying them for the action only, then replace every thing including the trigger and bolt handle? Thirty years ago, we just bought a 700, scoped it and shot little bitty groups. Not so much true anymore. Jack

Edit, this also is not intended to flame the product. It seems to me that corporate goals center on profit, and profits are tied to shoddy assembly. It may actually be an economic advantage for the buyer to fine tune things. Not everyone can do that work is the problem. JT

Tag

I was about to ask about a trigger, but I see you just covered it.

Thanks

Dave

Thanks for taking the time. Now all I need to do is find a Montana.

Pretty simple answer. There are very few production rifles that meld ergos, barrel length, twist, and throat geometry that matches box constraints. Kimber is one of the few, but only in a couple of calibers, others still need tweaking. The Remington 700 is relatively cheap and has more replacement parts, triggers, stocks available than anything else. Pretty much every rifle rem makes can be taken off the shelf and shoots plenty good for 99% of shooters/hunters needs. A lot of the people around here are in that 1% that have wants/needs for better.

Boxer�that trigger I just adjusted was on the new .223AI with the 1 in 8 twist�.

But Ive been keeping that from you�'fraid you might try to copy me��..


Preliminary range sessions indicate it might kill schitt�..

If you are new at guns, and lack experience to do internal minor repairs and parts replacement... this may not be for you. Do not do the following unless you are skilled enough to work on guns, and responsible enough to handle them safely. I'm presenting this information as "Information Only"... it is SOLELY your decision whether you have the skill and ability to use this information.

If you have an accident, it means that you weren't skilled enough, or responsible enough, so you shouldn't have done the following, so it's not my fault!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now on to the details
The Remington triggers are very good, except they come with a built in lawyer, and he weighs about 9 or 10 pounds.

You will need a bit of good quality gun oil (CLP or equivalent), and a set of small screwdrivers, and some white or red nail polish.

Remove the barreled action from the stock.

Looking at the gun and trigger so the safety is up, and the barrel is pointing to your right... the front of the trigger is to your right...


The three screws are as follows...

On your right, (the front of the trigger) the top screw, near the action, is over travel...
The bottom screw is spring tension...
On your left side, (the back of the trigger) is the engagement screw.

First, break the white "Seals of God" and screw the three screws out enough so that you see several threads.

They may be hard at first, but they are NOT staked in place. The screws and trigger body are carbon steel, and may be rusted, or they may have a sealant on them. Just break them free. Drop a teeny bit of oil on the threads. Run the screws in and out several times until the oil is in the threads, and they turn freely.

OK, now down to business.

Back out the spring tension screw out until there is just enough pressure to keep the trigger forward, but it's very light (4 or 5 oz's) and easy to move.

Back out the engagement screw, (the single screw on the left) and the over-travel screw (the upper screw on your right) out, so there's play to adjust.

Close the bolt on a cocked pin (don't pull the trigger) and VERY SLOWLY turn the engagement screw (on your left) in until the firing pin drops. Back it out about 1/3 to 1/2 of a turn. With the firing pin down, you should now feel the trigger wobble back and forth if you pull it because there is excessive over travel.

Because the back surface of the trigger is NOT undercut, you have to adjust over-travel with the pin "down".

Now, with the firing pin in the "fired" position, screw in the over-travel screw until it "just touches" the trigger lightly, preventing the trigger from moving... back out the over travel screw 1/4 turn. Pulling the trigger now, (with the pin "down") you should feel just the "slightest" free movement.

Now turn in the spring tension screw (lower right) to a pull that you like... I'd strongly suggest a good trigger pull gauge, instead of guessing.

Cock the pin and try it... it should break like glass.

Check by:
Slam the bolt closed a dozen times, check to see if the pin dropped each time. If the pin drops, back out the engagement screw 1/4 turn, and do again.
Cock the pin, set the safety, pull the trigger, release the trigger, and release the safety, a dozen times... if the pin drops, increase the spring tension (shouldn't be necessary, unless you're down around 10-15 oz's, and this trigger is not reliable at that light a pull.
Put white or red nail polish on the screws. Let dry, and put another coat on it again, and again.

There will be no "take up slack", this is a single stage trigger, and can't be adjusted to act like a two stage.

These triggers are easily capable of going to 24-26 oz's, and they keep the setting year after year, and I've never had to re-adjust one.

thanks dvdegeorge, this is great info

'smoker,

You's gonna have dumbfhukks cooking schit off.(grin)

THAT is mean.










'402,

Thirty years ago,I bedded everything,tweaked triggers,kissed,found pressure and rocked on. Hint.

I'd MUCH rather do that myself,than get charged for 82 Trick Moves of Snake Oil.

Re-hint.










'87,

I may have a 700.










'gwe,

I've no interest in Wildcats,because if they were that "good" the factory would chamber for them. Same goes twist rates. Do you REALLY "think" that after nearly 100yrs,they don't recognize how exceptional a 1-14" .224" twist rate is,for velocity increases alone?!?

Sir,you are chasing your tail.

Now you have to shoot to make brass and your bullets that don't fly apart,will go too slow.










'george,

You's as mean as SAS.

Sorta like danglin' instructions on how to lick a light socket.(grin)

Kimbers don't shoot,due to their light barrels...EVERYONE knows that.

Boxer: Sir, respectfully. I'm not completely sure you know whereof you speak. My new .223AI wildcat with the 1 in 8 twist shoots bullets so fast you can't even see them. Its either that or the faster spin that makes them invisible to the naked eye.
You will never convince me that my shooting 'platform' and complete 'system' isn't working�

sheesh�.

One of these days, I'm going to follow 'Stick's tutorial and modify the action of a 223 Montana to accept longer COAL....

....I've asked him several things in the past, but I'll refrain from painting advice.

Dude, my new rifle ( the wildcat 223AI) with the 8 twist benchmark barrel is rapidly climbing to the top of the "favorite rifle" charts! Thanks again!

They do make a good barrel!

You're not going to paint it Zebra-like are you?

Not unless you give me the tutorial on painting�.

I'm no help there, but send it to KY and I'll give it a try!

Thanks butttt��..


Its already got a 'money shot' paint job

boxer/stic can show you how to break that barrel in too. Just sayin

Good post buddy...

Nice write up. Thanks for taking the time to do so.

I've made the same magazine and action screw mods to my Kimbers. Haven't messed with the bedding as it has appeared to be OK so far. I did notice the rubbing on the shank and forward of the mag well on the stock and action on my 84L in 30-06. Think I'll go back and check the rear lug bedding.

Very good thread.

Where do you find the tape you are using for masking off the stock? It looks like it cuts much cleaner than the blue painter's tape of basic masking tape I've used.

I also want to thank you. I read this thread many times before purchasing my Montana. After I purchased it, I checked it over for any potential problems. You saved me a lot of time to go directly to the source of potential issues. Thankfully everything looks good and the rifle is shooting great but I was fully prepared to jump right in on these fixes. This should be a sticky.

Just wanted to bump this thread and say 'Thanks'! I have a Kimber that had a mag box problem took it out and started to dremel away. Out of fear of taking off too much (is that possible, we wan it to "float" right?) I stopped after grinding off a little.

Have noticed that there is play in the front of the mag box when I put the rifle back together, but no play in the back of the mag box.

I believe I still need to remove some metal in the back to gain some play. All we want is the mag box to sit in there and hold the cartridges, not be pressing on the action, correct?

When I bolt it all together, and I press the spring/follower up and down, I should see my mag box move around some too? Not be solid, "stuck" from the pressure of the action.