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Re: Ladder test, How, why? RDW #8555938 02/07/14
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 97 . W WapitiBob Campfire Greenhorn
WapitiBob Campfire Greenhorn W Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 97 .	My 200 yard group was .6" with 73.0 gr and at 400 it was maybe 6". I finally realized I was chasing my tail and did the ladder. I'll try the 3 charges when it quits snowing. I'm at .015" off the lands right now. Would you suggest moving in to the lands, off , or both?

GB1

Re: Ladder test, How, why? WapitiBob #8556693 02/07/14
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 17,527 Colorado D dogcatcher223 Campfire Ranger
dogcatcher223 Campfire Ranger D Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 17,527 Colorado	Originally Posted by WapitiBob My 200 yard group was .6" with 73.0 gr and at 400 it was maybe 6". That could be from a number of things...optics power, parallax, wind...If you are shooting .6" at 200 then you are there. Run your 73gr loads over a chrono and see how much velocity spread you get.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? WapitiBob #8561026 02/08/14
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,465 North East TN S smalljawbasser Campfire Tracker
smalljawbasser Campfire Tracker S Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,465 North East TN	Originally Posted by WapitiBob I'm at .015" off the lands right now. Would you suggest moving in to the lands, off , or both? Complete the powder test using the same seating depth for all. Once you've found your charge, then you can tweak seating depth.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? smalljawbasser #8561079 02/08/14
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,474 Alaska R rost495 Campfire Kahuna
rost495 Campfire Kahuna R Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,474 Alaska	IMHO, and its from years of competitive shooting, you do not want to be just at the lands ever. Bullets can vary a bit in ogive, and there is a different pressure between an engaged, just touching and not engaged in pressures. My rule of thumb has been either .015/.010 engaged or same amount off as a minimum. We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....

Re: Ladder test, How, why? rost495 #8561873 02/08/14
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 97 . W WapitiBob Campfire Greenhorn
WapitiBob Campfire Greenhorn W Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 97 .	Thanks guys. It's going to be just a bit, got 2" of snow in the last three days.

IC B2

Re: Ladder test, How, why? WapitiBob #8629167 02/27/14
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,960 Wilmington NC BountyHunter Campfire Regular
BountyHunter Campfire Regular Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,960 Wilmington NC	The key is to find the node that you have very little vertical dispersion AND very little variance in MV. IMO you must have both tightly grouped. Most of the time it is easy to see the bullets make jumps in elevation and MV and then you get 2-4 rds that seem to cluster in both elevation and in MV. Take the middle of that node and work your seating depth tests.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? BountyHunter #8629405 02/27/14
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,893 B Boxer Campfire Tracker
Boxer Campfire Tracker B Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,893	Ladders "tests" are about the dumbest [bleep] schit I've ever heard of. Wow.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? Boxer #8631104 02/28/14
Joined: Feb 2002 Posts: 7,197 K keith Campfire Tracker
keith Campfire Tracker K Joined: Feb 2002 Posts: 7,197	Originally Posted by Boxer Ladders "tests" are about the dumbest [bleep] schit I've ever heard of. Wow. +1 If you were shooting in an indoor warehouse with no ventilation system to make it OSHA approved, it still would not be worth a crap.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? keith #8631237 02/28/14
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816 rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter
rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816	Originally Posted by keith Originally Posted by Boxer Ladders "tests" are about the dumbest [bleep] schit I've ever heard of. Wow. +1 If you were shooting in an indoor warehouse with no ventilation system to make it OSHA approved, it still would not be worth a crap. Hilarious! Originally Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? WapitiBob #8631325 02/28/14
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 29,835 Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA 1minute Campfire Ranger
1minute Campfire Ranger Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 29,835 Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA	WapitiBob: Any parallax issues with your scope, or can one dial it out? There is no known reason for unit doing well at 200 to open up that much at 4. Check for parallax. Last edited by 1minute; 02/28/14. 1Minute

IC B3

Re: Ladder test, How, why? 1minute #8631525 02/28/14
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816 rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter
rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816	600 yard Audette 600 yard group with no vertical 15 minutes later Ladder... Group with the load in the "node" at 330 yards. LOL Saying "node" makes me [bleep] laff! 100 yard group with the load... 600 yard, 3 shot with the load... .338 Norma Mag Audette worthless ladder... [img]http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/rcamuglia/P1020396.jpg[/img] The Accuracy Node... [img]http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/rcamuglia/P1020397.jpg[/img] Load taken from the accuracy node... [img]http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/rcamuglia/photo.jpg[/img] Originally Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? rcamuglia #8631556 02/28/14
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816 rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter
rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816	Creedmoor Ladder... Load... Ladder... Load... Originally Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? rcamuglia #8631904 02/28/14
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 18,917 NM S SLM Campfire Ranger
SLM Campfire Ranger S Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 18,917 NM	Better put some calipers on those groups.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? SLM #8632000 02/28/14
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816 rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter
rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816	Oh yeah. Why run a ladder? To develop a long range load with as little vertical stringing as possible in the fewest number of shots as possible. To find charge weight ranges to which your rifle's barrel is tolerant and indifferent. You're looking for consecutive shots that tend to have the same POI especially with vertical as a consideration. When you have identified these accuracy "nodes", shoot groups with the loads in the node to see which one shoots the best. Tweak seating if even necessary. A load that vertically strings at long range sucks ass There's never been a better load development method ever invented since Man came about on earth, the earth was created, and the Universe big-banged itself. So there. Originally Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? rcamuglia #8632006 02/28/14
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 14,119 Texas G geedubya Campfire Outfitter
geedubya Campfire Outfitter G Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 14,119 Texas	Hello RC, What's the haps? don't have a dog or a ladder in this, as I'm a short range meat hunter, but FYI................. Have fun, but be mindful of the fact that in some instances what you know don't count near as much as what some that know it all counts fer.! There is a pecking order strictly enforced Best, GWB Last edited by geedubya; 02/28/14. A Kill Artist. When I draw, I draw blood.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? geedubya #8632067 02/28/14
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 18,917 NM S SLM Campfire Ranger
SLM Campfire Ranger S Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 18,917 NM	The pecking order is clear here. Your pic has accounted for a few good laughs.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? SLM #8632110 02/28/14
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816 rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter
rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816	The look on Ol' Blacky's face is the look of experience... Originally Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? geedubya #8632119 02/28/14
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816 rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter
rcamuglia Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 10,816	Originally Posted by geedubya Hello RC, What's the haps? don't have a dog or a ladder in this, as I'm a short range meat hunter, but FYI................. Have fun, but be mindful of the fact that in some instances what you know don't count near as much as what some that know it all counts fer.! There is a pecking order strictly enforced Best, GWB Howdy GDub! After reading your post, I had a case head separation... Originally Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.

Re: Ladder test, How, why? rcamuglia #8632325 02/28/14
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 11,521 Edge of the map Kenneth OP Campfire Outfitter
OP Kenneth Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 11,521 Edge of the map	So, when we find the least amount of vertical dispersion, We have found the "node", And this node tells us we have found the best pressure? Consistent pressure,= least vertical spread? Yes?

Re: Ladder test, How, why? Kenneth #8632368 02/28/14
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 44,817 M mathman Campfire 'Bwana
mathman Campfire 'Bwana M Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 44,817	It's from consistent position and movement behavior of the barrel at the moment the bullet leaves the barrel.

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