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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
230 grain XTP 1100 plus FPS next to 180 grain XTP 1300 plus FPS ![[Linked Image]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/image_zps487a87bb.jpg) The reason I prefer the 45.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 64
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 64 |
I think I like the 45! 
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,100
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,100 |
Was there any difference in penetration? Just curious.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,311
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,311 |
jwp,
What were they recovered from?
Jerry
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
We just had a heavy rain and I was shooting a pop can on the water soaked ground. I did not use a tape measure penetration but both appeared to penetrate about equal. I will do a proper test between the 2 when time permits me to gather the proper materials.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660 |
230 grain XTP 1100 plus FPS next to 180 grain XTP 1300 plus FPS The reason I prefer the 45. How was penetration? Note: You gotta love the XTP bullet. That .45 Super pushed that 230 grain XTP beyond what it was intended to do, and look at how well it held together while being flattened nearly to being a washer. That's just impressive.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
We just had a heavy rain and I was shooting a pop can on the water soaked ground. I did not use a tape measure penetration but both appeared to penetrate about equal. I will do a proper test between the 2 when time permits me to gather the proper materials.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500 |
I, too am impressed that those XTP's held together so well. I generally try to load Gold Dots, but those are nearly impossible to find on a shelf these days so I have been loading some Brass Plated hollow points that look like a Remington Golden Sabre. I might have to see how my recipe for the Gold Dots (14.6gr of AA#9, 1375fps) does with the XTP's, starting a bit lower on the powder charge when changing bullets, of course, and working back up slowly and with a chronograph.
IMPORTANT NOTE!!! THESE LOADS are safe in my 10mm which has a FULLY RAMPED BARREL, and when used in only brand new Starline Brass. Do not replicate these loads and try to run them in old brass or in a handgun that does not fully support the brass case!
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,879
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,879 |
I run the 45 Super too in a Sig 5" 1911. Mine will push 200's to 1285 fps.
I wouldn't choose a 10mm over the Super for any reason.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263 |
230 grain XTP 1100 plus FPS next to 180 grain XTP 1300 plus FPS The reason I prefer the 45. Yep!
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,719
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,719 |
230 grain XTP 1100 plus FPS next to 180 grain XTP 1300 plus FPS The reason I prefer the 45. Very nice. The reason I choose it too!!
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Joined: Mar 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
I'd choose the 10mm over the .45 Super. That's because the 10mm is a factory round that has been extensively tested in the guns it is designed for. The 45 Super is not. E
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660 |
I'd choose the 10mm over the .45 Super. That's because the 10mm is a factory round that has been extensively tested in the guns it is designed for. The 45 Super is not. E I think that depends on how "factory" you want to get. I believe at one time .45 Super has been made as a "factory" round. And there were a couple of copies (Triton IIRC) who made an identical round with a different name. Here's a bunch of factory .45 Super: http://www.underwoodammo.com/45super.aspx The only .45 Super guns were those made by Hindman since he has the copyright on the name ".45 Super"
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
I'd choose the 10mm over the .45 Super. That's because the 10mm is a factory round that has been extensively tested in the guns it is designed for. The 45 Super is not. E The 10mm in its original factory loade spec is about 38,000 psi and a 45 Super is about 28,000 psi don't you.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
I'd choose the 10mm over the .45 Super. That's because the 10mm is a factory round that has been extensively tested in the guns it is designed for. The 45 Super is not. E I think that depends on how "factory" you want to get. I believe at one time .45 Super has been made as a "factory" round. And there were a couple of copies (Triton IIRC) who made an identical round with a different name. Here's a bunch of factory .45 Super: http://www.underwoodammo.com/45super.aspx The only .45 Super guns were those made by Hindman since he has the copyright on the name ".45 Super" . In addition, Ace Custom .45�s Inc. of Cleveland, Texas trademarked the .45 Super name in 1994 and currently markets factory .45 Super pistols, as well as gunsmith adaptations of .45 ACP pistols, and .45 ACP conversion kits. Texas Ammunition and Buffalo Bore offer factory loaded ammunition which is marketed by Ace Custom and others.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
The 10mm's SAAMI design pressure is 37,500 psi. All of the factory made guns were designed for this level of pressure.
There are no ".45 Super" guns made by any of the significant makers of .45 ACP pistols.
I suspect it is because the ammo made for the .45 Super is way over the SAAMI level for +P .45 ACP ammo. Such ammo can be expected to damage a .45 ACP pistol. While one can argue that limited use might prevent significant damage, such damage can not be reliabily predicted to happen at a certain number of rounds. Therefore, a person using such ammo is gambling on his gun working with it, especially when he'd really need it to work.
If others wish to gamble with the reliability of their choice of handguns, that's up to them. Frankly, if I need more power than a standard SAAMI .45 ACP load will give me, I'll break out a .44 Magnum. E
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263 |
The 10mm's SAAMI design pressure is 37,500 psi. All of the factory made guns were designed for this level of pressure.
There are no ".45 Super" guns made by any of the significant makers of .45 ACP pistols.
I suspect it is because the ammo made for the .45 Super is way over the SAAMI level for +P .45 ACP ammo. Such ammo can be expected to damage a .45 ACP pistol. While one can argue that limited use might prevent significant damage, such damage can not be reliabily predicted to happen at a certain number of rounds. Therefore, a person using such ammo is gambling on his gun working with it, especially when he'd really need it to work.
If others wish to gamble with the reliability of their choice of handguns, that's up to them. Frankly, if I need more power than a standard SAAMI .45 ACP load will give me, I'll break out a .44 Magnum. E
Someone did figure out to better the 10mm and Super. Check out the Wilson Combat Hunter. Hint: not the 10mm version.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,660 |
I'd choose the 10mm over the .45 Super. That's because the 10mm is a factory round that has been extensively tested in the guns it is designed for. The 45 Super is not. E I think that depends on how "factory" you want to get. I believe at one time .45 Super has been made as a "factory" round. And there were a couple of copies (Triton IIRC) who made an identical round with a different name. Here's a bunch of factory .45 Super: http://www.underwoodammo.com/45super.aspx The only .45 Super guns were those made by Hindman since he has the copyright on the name ".45 Super" . In addition, Ace Custom .45�s Inc. of Cleveland, Texas trademarked the .45 Super name in 1994 and currently markets factory .45 Super pistols, as well as gunsmith adaptations of .45 ACP pistols, and .45 ACP conversion kits. Texas Ammunition and Buffalo Bore offer factory loaded ammunition which is marketed by Ace Custom and others. Yes, Ace's last name was Hindman (don't remember his first name.). The cartridge was developed by Dean Grennell of Gun World fame, and the gun was created by ACE Custom Guns (Hindman). ACE retained all the patents. He actually patented the cartridge. The .45 Super copies typically have small pistol primers so as not to infringe on the patent. Triton ammunition wanted to make .45 super but ran into issues with ACE, so they created a "new cartridge" called the SMC (which reportedly stood for suck my C@#k - in reference to Hindman). They did load some .45 Super ammunition with a 185 grain Flat Point FMG for the Navy Special Warfare to be used in their Mk 23 H&K pistols. Other than the owner of Triton mentioning that they did load that for the Navy, I've never heard anything more about it. The .45 Super is a brilliant load.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,263 |
I'd choose the 10mm over the .45 Super. That's because the 10mm is a factory round that has been extensively tested in the guns it is designed for. The 45 Super is not. E I think that depends on how "factory" you want to get. I believe at one time .45 Super has been made as a "factory" round. And there were a couple of copies (Triton IIRC) who made an identical round with a different name. Here's a bunch of factory .45 Super: http://www.underwoodammo.com/45super.aspx The only .45 Super guns were those made by Hindman since he has the copyright on the name ".45 Super" . In addition, Ace Custom .45�s Inc. of Cleveland, Texas trademarked the .45 Super name in 1994 and currently markets factory .45 Super pistols, as well as gunsmith adaptations of .45 ACP pistols, and .45 ACP conversion kits. Texas Ammunition and Buffalo Bore offer factory loaded ammunition which is marketed by Ace Custom and others. Yes, Ace's last name was Hindman (don't remember his first name.). The cartridge was developed by Dean Grennell of Gun World fame, and the gun was created by ACE Custom Guns (Hindman). ACE retained all the patents. He actually patented the cartridge. The .45 Super copies typically have small pistol primers so as not to infringe on the patent. Triton ammunition wanted to make .45 super but ran into issues with ACE, so they created a "new cartridge" called the SMC (which reportedly stood for suck my C@#k - in reference to Hindman). They did load some .45 Super ammunition with a 185 grain Flat Point FMG for the Navy Special Warfare to be used in their Mk 23 H&K pistols. Other than the owner of Triton mentioning that they did load that for the Navy, I've never heard anything more about it. The .45 Super is a brilliant load. I be damn. Interesting.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,890 |
The 10mm's SAAMI design pressure is 37,500 psi. All of the factory made guns were designed for this level of pressure.
There are no ".45 Super" guns made by any of the significant makers of .45 ACP pistols.
I suspect it is because the ammo made for the .45 Super is way over the SAAMI level for +P .45 ACP ammo. Such ammo can be expected to damage a .45 ACP pistol. While one can argue that limited use might prevent significant damage, such damage can not be reliabily predicted to happen at a certain number of rounds. Therefore, a person using such ammo is gambling on his gun working with it, especially when he'd really need it to work.
If others wish to gamble with the reliability of their choice of handguns, that's up to them. Frankly, if I need more power than a standard SAAMI .45 ACP load will give me, I'll break out a .44 Magnum. E
Thank god not everyone only wants a factory round and firearm Thais SaAAMI spec'ed because if that were the case, we would be missing many great cartridges. The 475 Linebaugh,in 1988 I had to make my own cases and bullet, but now we can by factory made revolvers and ammo. We proved their reliability and the platforms ability to contain them. The same could be said of the 454 Casul, and the Weatherby cartridges as well, they were loaded and sold for decades without being SAAMI'd. We might still be throwing sticks and stone at game.
Last edited by jwp475; 03/18/14.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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