Living in PA I was never allowed to hunt with a semi auto. I may be moving out of state in the near future and if I do I'm going to pick me up a Remmy semi and see what I've been missing.
I've owned both. The Winchester Model 100 is by far the more handsome, but I'd go with the Remington for accuracy and reliability. BTW, if you do get a Winchester Model 100, make sure the safety modification was made.
At one point in my life, semi autos were all I used. My 742 experience was less than good. I went to Browning. Cousin used them and liked them. At one time I had every caliber built in the Type 1 (made and assembled in Belgium). The only repair I ever made on one (other than trigger work) was replace a broken recoil buffer.
I was a strong young man back then, and the weight did not bother me. All were reasonably accurate, some scary accurate. One exception. I had about four 7 mags before landing one that shot decently at just over an inch.
I'm down to one higher grade '06. It does just over an inch with factory CoreLokts.
No 100 history, just 88. I would steer you to browning. They now build them a bit lighter. No real need to sweat the alloy receiver. The bolt locks into the barrel.
Jack
"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
I've owned 100's in 243,284 and several in 308 also owned the Rem 740 in 3006, I now own a Browning BAR Stalker in 270... never had a problem with any of them.
The remmy semi-autos are throwing good money after bad. Please allow me to elaborate. From the 1970's thru the 1990's, I worked periodically for a gunsmith here in this sleepy little SC town, and for most of that time he was the only degreed (Col. School of Trades) 'smitty in 3 counties, though there were two others that were jack-leg, but good at it. Also, for most of that time, two of the three local department stores here in town sold variation of the Remmy semi-auto guns (742, 7400...etc., etc). When the 742 was the Remmy gun in the mid-late 70's, they sold here for $265, with an Armsport or K-mart scope and over-under mounts. (Roses & Kmart ran these specials). It was common by mid-season to have more than a dozen (I have personally counted 18 at once) sitting waiting for parts...and that was back when Remington still made the parts! The most common causes were related to the weak ejector/extractor system. The 7400 did much to change it, but it is still at it's heart a weak system. The guns were designed to use Remington factory loads USING REMINGTON FACTORY BULLET SHAPES at those pressures and be squeaky clean when doing so. if you followed that Mantra, they worked fairly well, though on very cold days they were still prone to jamming. Issue is, most guys did not want to remove the forend and get that gas system squeaky clean after sighting it in, in the belief that it would trow off their zero (that was justified, I have seen that very thig affect zero on this design). the gas ports would foul, and the lack of real coating under all that meant a fast corrosion rate, so by the time cold weather got there, there was too much stress placed on the extraction/ejection system, and the result were jams. The 7400 has a beefier gas port and extraction system, but not enough, IMHO, and like I said, it is throwing good money after bad. If you think I am wrong, contact Remington. they will no longer service those guns, I think that says it all.
Something I touched on in caps up there is well worth mentioning. For both of the stated gun designs, you have to remember, this is 1960's technology, and while the military used semi-auto weapons, they were usually heavier and the whole hunt with an military type weapon thing was decades away from being the norm, so most of these designs used some form of autoloading shotgun thought in the design, which, to make them lighter and more appealing to the average hunter, was quite understandable. As such, like shotguns that were either 2 3/4" or 3", they tailored the guns to fit the cup & core bullet designs and overall bullet profiles of the time, all produced to US / SAAMI standards. Nowadays, you have many different bullet shapes, case shapes, case materials (steel, aluminum, 'bi-metal') corrosive priming, plus ammo made overseas to goodness what standards, all of which make a recipie for failure. Even if you do not use any of that, a previous diet of it does alot of damage.
I will say that Browning understood this, and built a gun with a heavier gas, ejection, & extraction systems, making it both the heaviest and the longest lasting (still in production) of the three.
So just bear that in mind, IMHO, avoid the Remmy, of the two buy the Winnie, make sure it is super clean AND NOT CORRODED AROUND THE GAS PORT and then experiment to find the best ammo for it, and you will have the best chance of having a viable hunting rifle
Psalm 19:14-May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer. _ Humble servant of Jesus Christ. Living His plan and praying to show it in name, word, body, and light.
I have both. Get the 100. As mentioned by several people above, you would be better served with a Browning. I have several of them also. Mine have been unfailing and are as accurate as most of my bolt action rifles.
If you do get a Remington, you might want to consider two things.
Get some magazines designed for the pump action rifle. They do not have the hold-open at the last round feature. This makes replacing the empty magazine with a fresh one much easier.
You may also greatly increase the accuracy of the rifle by taking some of the wood off the rear end of the forearm where it contacts the receiver. This keeps the forearm from pressing on the receiver and bending up the barrel. This is most important if you ever take off the forearm and can't reinstall the screw back with the exact same force. I have a 6mm that went from a 4"-5" group to a 1.5" group by doing this.
Every now and then I feel compelled to mention again - Benelli R1.
It's a better rifle than the Browning, just as accurate, almost as easy to clean as an AR. It's gotten a bad rap on the 'fire because a perpetual troll decided it was one of his favorite rifles, subsequntly the rifle's reputation suffered with his. I have two R1's, thousands of rounds fired, not a single malfunction. Look into them before you buy....
You might even consider an AR 10-type rifle. A black rifle in 308 or one of the other commonly used deer chamberings is a very workable hunting rifle. I used a S&W and a Sig last year for deer with great results.
Browning is a nice rifle no doubt BUT dont buy into the the Remington needing to use only Remington ammo,that a crock as I have personally used Not only Remington but Winchester and Federal Premiums and Hi shoks.Nary a bobble whether round nose or pointed. The extractor is the same as for the Pump rifle as well. I have had a bona fide Gunsmith tell me the same ole s..t that it is a weak system BUT funny how I have never had a problem with it or the the same thing on the pump rifles. IF it does give problem then replace it. As i said keep the chamber clean but squeaky clean? Balderdash! So Remington wont service the older rifles ? That just means they have enough on their plate servicing the newer stuff without worrying bout the old/IF rifle is old and wore out and requires more time and trouble and money to function properly (which has been found out buy function firing BEFORE you buy it )Then dont buy it!Jeezus guys On the other hand if it shoots good and doesn,t jam when function firing and you keep the chamber clean(Remember the dog leg cleaning brush)Have at it. Or let somebody talk you out of it,whatever .
The remmy semi-autos are throwing good money after bad. Please allow me to elaborate. From the 1970's thru the 1990's, I worked periodically for a gunsmith here in this sleepy little SC town, and for most of that time he was the only degreed (Col. School of Trades) 'smitty in 3 counties, though there were two others that were jack-leg, but good at it. Also, for most of that time, two of the three local department stores here in town sold variation of the Remmy semi-auto guns (742, 7400...etc., etc). When the 742 was the Remmy gun in the mid-late 70's, they sold here for $265, with an Armsport or K-mart scope and over-under mounts. (Roses & Kmart ran these specials). It was common by mid-season to have more than a dozen (I have personally counted 18 at once) sitting waiting for parts...and that was back when Remington still made the parts! The most common causes were related to the weak ejector/extractor system. The 7400 did much to change it, but it is still at it's heart a weak system. The guns were designed to use Remington factory loads USING REMINGTON FACTORY BULLET SHAPES at those pressures and be squeaky clean when doing so. if you followed that Mantra, they worked fairly well, though on very cold days they were still prone to jamming. Issue is, most guys did not want to remove the forend and get that gas system squeaky clean after sighting it in, in the belief that it would trow off their zero (that was justified, I have seen that very thig affect zero on this design). the gas ports would foul, and the lack of real coating under all that meant a fast corrosion rate, so by the time cold weather got there, there was too much stress placed on the extraction/ejection system, and the result were jams. The 7400 has a beefier gas port and extraction system, but not enough, IMHO, and like I said, it is throwing good money after bad. If you think I am wrong, contact Remington. they will no longer service those guns, I think that says it all.
Something I touched on in caps up there is well worth mentioning. For both of the stated gun designs, you have to remember, this is 1960's technology, and while the military used semi-auto weapons, they were usually heavier and the whole hunt with an military type weapon thing was decades away from being the norm, so most of these designs used some form of autoloading shotgun thought in the design, which, to make them lighter and more appealing to the average hunter, was quite understandable. As such, like shotguns that were either 2 3/4" or 3", they tailored the guns to fit the cup & core bullet designs and overall bullet profiles of the time, all produced to US / SAAMI standards. Nowadays, you have many different bullet shapes, case shapes, case materials (steel, aluminum, 'bi-metal') corrosive priming, plus ammo made overseas to goodness what standards, all of which make a recipie for failure. Even if you do not use any of that, a previous diet of it does alot of damage.
I will say that Browning understood this, and built a gun with a heavier gas, ejection, & extraction systems, making it both the heaviest and the longest lasting (still in production) of the three.
So just bear that in mind, IMHO, avoid the Remmy, of the two buy the Winnie, make sure it is super clean AND NOT CORRODED AROUND THE GAS PORT and then experiment to find the best ammo for it, and you will have the best chance of having a viable hunting rifle
Interesting. Since we are not allowed to hunt with these rifles in PA I'm not real savvy on them. I didn't know to what degree they were pos's.
This brings back memories of very enjoyable discussions with my father. As a deep woods Minnesota deer hunter (and more successful at it than anyone I have met) he was a big proponent of the semi-auto. He believed that that as little time spent working the action while shooting at deer was the way to go. He believed the order of preference was semi-auto, pump, lever action, bolt action and single-shot at the very end.
So, I frequently teased him about his fifty year use of a single-shot. Because even though he used semi-autos, given they all jammed, to me, they were single-shots. And slow single-shots at that. I remember when Ruger first brought out their No. 3 single-shot I was enthralled and proposed to buy one either n .30/40 or .45/70. I proposed the idea that they would be lightweight, sweet handling pieces to slip through the brush with. My Dad was could not fathom my thinking of using a single-shot. I proposed I could work that Ruger action a lot quicker to get off a second shot than he could un-jam his Remington after the first shot to clear the cartridge stuck in the action.
To be fair to my Dad, usually his jammed rifle was not a big deal. He would shoot his deer, get it on the first shot and then clear the rifle jam. Not every time of course but darn frequent.
The advice given above - to buy neither the Winchester M100 or any variation of the Remington 740 series is advice I very much agree with.
My Dad started out with a Remington M740 in .280. This was in the later 1950's - I think the .280 cartridge just came out. I'm sure at the time he spent more than anyone in the family had spent on a rifle. He loved the cartridge and had great success with it but the rifle was a jammer. He suffered with it several years and then in about 1965 traded it for a Winchester M100 in .308 (another new rifle). And another jammer. He suffered with that for years and the next rifle to come along was a M7400 .30/06 carbine. He found that carbine particularly accurate and enjoyed the carbine length barrel in the woods. But it too, became a jammer and got worse over the years. The last rifle he bought was a vintage Savage 99 in .300. Finally! It never jammed on him but I recall he didn't like it. After a half century of semi-auto use (a.k.a. single-shot use) he just couldn't be comfortable with the idea that he had to work the lever (I guess with his semi-auto there was always the hope he could keep pulling the trigger).
It was with his M7400 we looked into investigating what was wrong and what could be done to fix it. I brought it to a professional gunsmith who went through it (cleaning gas port, chamber etc.) but that didn't change the rifle's stripes. Eventually we took it to another gunsmith who wasn't interested in taking our money as he knew he couldn't produce a result.
Going from distant memory, he said the rifles could not be repaired and showed us why. There is a rail inside the action (left side of the action) that if you slip your finger straight through the ejection port - to the other side - you can run your finger along this horizontal rail. Through the cycling of the action, this rail gets little dings and becomes rough. The rail cannot be replaced.
I recall taking a small piece of a very fine file and running it back and forth along this rail (just a bit) to smooth it out, and that helped some, temporarily.
In my own experience, the first deer rifle I used was a Remington 742. It was brand new. I used it a year or two (as a teenager) but early on, the vintage rifle bug bit me. Before my teens ended I was using a Remington M08 in .35 (circa 1906) and I still have it. That rifle is not a jammer. Most of my hunting from my teens forward was with lever rifles. A .32 spl. carbine got the nod for many years. That rifle was not a jammer nor were the other lever action rifles I used. I also used some bolt action rifles and never had one of them jam either.
People debate .30/06 vs. .270, barrel lengths and on and on but jammer vs. non-jammer, to my way of thinking, is a no-brainer. It is an extremely important variable. In conclusion, after 50 years experience with this topic, stay away from the M100 and the M740/742/7400.
Oh, and speaking from experience, no one mentioned Standard Arms but I have a Model G in .35 and it's a jammer!
I stand corrected Remington 740/742/7600 are all junk. Please contact me with PM if you have one of these no good rifles that you wish out of your sight. I will take it off your hands (for free of course as that is all they are worth) I will also accept (again free because that is all they are worth)Cheap scopes ,high rise or flip over scope mounts ,Remington Ammo cheap slings,extra mags etc. You will have to pay shipping charges and My FFL fees as well (small money indeed for sure, to be able to get these pieces of crap out of mind and your gun collection. They dont work so do yourselves a favor and get rid of them while you can !!
Sorry, but none to get rid of here! That is a kind offer however.
As I think back on my father's experience I outlined above, it is possible that he preferred the Remington autoloaders. Having a poorly functioning rifle might have assuaged the guilt he felt over having an unfair sporting advantage over the deer.
I stand corrected Remington 740/742/7600 are all junk. Please contact me with PM if you have one of these no good rifles that you wish out of your sight. I will take it off your hands (for free of course as that is all they are worth)
Put me in line for all those POS 100's out there.
I spent a good portion of my youth around three different M 100's and they all worked well.
