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It's really simple.

Whoever owns the land makes the rules. If the rancher admits that he doesn't own the land then he should pound sand.

He wants to steal resources that the rest of us pay for.

I don't get why land ownership is such a complicated thing to understand.

By this same logic, I should be able to dump all the Mercury I want into the city water supply.


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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After 20yrs of litigation and now this massive group of people it takes to rustle the man's cows, probably cost about $300,000 per\cow for Govt. to rustle cows.


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
It's really simple.

Whoever owns the land makes the rules. If the rancher admits that he doesn't own the land then he should pound sand.

He wants to steal resources that the rest of us pay for.

I don't get why land ownership is such a complicated thing to understand.

By this same logic, I should be able to dump all the Mercury I want into the city water supply.


Well, by this logic, then when the anti gun crowd tells the American public that they can no longer hunt or shoot on public land, then you will be pounding sand?

Oh yeah. I forgot. You are in Alabama where none of this applies.... or you have not had the issue to deal with, or know what you are talking about.


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Oh yeah. I forgot. You are in Alabama where none of this applies
===========

That's what you don't understand, Opie.

His rights to that Nevada land are no different than yours...or Nevadans.

If you need more help, I'll grab some crayons and color a picture for you.


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I haven't lived in Alabama my whole life.

Firearms aren't allowed on a ton of Federal property.

Hit me with your next excuse on why it's okay to steal resources from your neighbors.


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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Originally Posted by isaac
Oh yeah. I forgot. You are in Alabama where none of this applies
===========

That's what you don't understand, Opie.

His rights to that Nevada land are no different than yours...or Nevadans.

If you need more help, I'll grab some crayons and color a picture for you.


Didn't say that, Councilor.

I said he doesn't understand it. I KNOW you don't.
But, you both have the same rights as anyone else.


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Quote
Firearms aren't allowed on a ton of Federal property.


sounds like you support that, HAJ

....you don't feel, just even a LITTLE bit that posting that off the wall chit here is a bit like biting a hand that's FED you ?

....."Our Military will NEVER turn on us",....yadda

HMMMMmmmm, WHERE have we all heard THAT from,in multiples of 10 ?



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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
I haven't lived in Alabama my whole life.

Firearms aren't allowed on a ton of Federal property.

Hit me with your next excuse on why it's okay to steal resources from your neighbors.


The government owns a HUGE amount of forest or BLM lands out west. So, it's OK with you if they tell us we can't hunt or shoot on it?

Who is stealing anything?

That's WFT you don't understand. The man's ranch was ruined by BLM and environmentalists. He was evicted. He refused to leave. It's been a 20 year court battle, boiling down to what it is now.

Last edited by rockinbbar; 04/10/14.

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Define "okay" as you understand it.

I'm okay with voicing displeasure. I'm okay with petitioning for a change of policy. I'm okay with doing everything short of theft.



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Originally Posted by crossfireoops
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Firearms aren't allowed on a ton of Federal property.


sounds like you support that, HAJ...


You know better, Greg.


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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
I haven't lived in Alabama my whole life.

Firearms aren't allowed on a ton of Federal property.

Hit me with your next excuse on why it's okay to steal resources from your neighbors.


The government owns a HUGE amount of forest or BLM lands out west. So, it's OK with you if they tell us we can't hunt or shoot on it?

Who is stealing anything?

That's WFT you don't understand. The man's ranch was ruined by BLM and environmentalists. He was evicted. He refused to leave. It's been a 20 year court battle, boiling down to what it is now.


I'd support him 100% in his protests if he wasn't taking resources from public land.


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When ever this type of issue comes up, the East/West divide becomes clearer.

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Quote
If he owns the grazing rights


Again, one does not own grazing rights on BLM properties here in the west. They are privileges typically attached to a nearby deeded base property. Sell the ranch (base property) and the new owner has the option of picking up or abandoning the permits. The old owner does not retain those privileges and he cannot market them to someone else independent of his base property.

Simply put, one can not sell his grazing privileges to another individual, because he does not actually own the BLM acres. There are instances of folks leasing the grazing to someone else if the permit holder is short on cows. I'm not schooled in the intricacies of those deals though. One can also loose a permit if his priviliges are not exercised for some years. If a permit is abandoned, nearby base property owners (ranchers) may be offered the option of picking it up, and we have several instances of those events when ranches are sold or developed. The Enviro crowd at one time thought of purchasing ranches and gaining access to permits as a method of getting cattle off of public land. Without stock though, they could not sustain the privilege.

While permits have been assumed to add value to a ranch, there are no warranaties. The new owner may be willing to put a high value on a one section ranch because it has access to 200 square miles of BLM rangeland the may support 3 times the base property potential in stock. There is associated risk though, because the new owner could just as well loose those privileges a week after taking ownership. Banks may or may not be willing to loan $$$ against that assumed value.

The system was established in the 1930's to eliminate the grazing of the commons issues. Folks with no property but a wealth of stock were raping the landscape. It was impossible for anyone to bank or save forage. The solution was to run off transient users, and offer privileges to those with deeded water and property in the immediate vicinity. They had the capacity, via harvested forage, to support stock during the winter and in spring months when the forages need some periods of unmolested growth to sustain themselves.

Permits come up and permits are abandoned all the time. Grizzly bear, wolves, black footed ferrets, or even turtles can lead to substantial changes in management. At the moment, sage grouse may be the undoing public land grazing in Wa, Id, Mt, Co, Ut, and Nv. Oregon might escape that one or get swept in too. I think the decision will be made in 2014 or 2015. Mostly we can thank the endangered species act for many of these problems.

Last edited by 1minute; 04/10/14.

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Yes it does SLM. Plenty of Washington politicians trying to dictate and micromanage our lives as well. It's too bad they can't abide by the Constitution.

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Actually, the United States 'owned" Nevada, California, Arizona, & New Mexico since 1848, when they paid $15,000,000 for it in the Treaty of Guadelupe-Hidalgo, after we whipped Mexico's ass in the Mexican War. It was incorporated into the Territory of Utah in 1851 and became the Territory of Nevada in 1861. The concept of Federally owned land is not a new one, and the Feds did not just sneak into Nevada and steal it. They've probably owned it since 1848. This guy has refused to pay grazing fees on "Federal" land since 1994. If you study the history of the cattle in the West, Ranchers have been required to pay grzing fees to graze on Federal land gong back to the beginning of the cattle industry in this country. I side with those who call this guy a thief. From what I read here, even his neighbors have complained about his illegal grazing. He says his family has been grazing cattle since 1877. I wonder whose cows the started out with. grin I do agree that the snipers and the "Free Speech Zone are a bit much.

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"Again, one does not own grazing rights on BLM properties here in the west. They are privileges typically attached to a nearby deeded base property. Sell the ranch (base property) and the new owner has the option of picking up or abandoning the permits. The old owner does not retain those privileges and he cannot market them to someone else independent of his base property...."

Yes, I believe this is how it really goes....

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Originally Posted by siskiyous6
The land is not leased, he owns the grazing rights on public land, OWNS!

He doesn't own anything, since it's leased, and he hasn't made a payment since 1993.


Last edited by Snyper; 04/10/14.

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Just an unwelcome Texan checking in, but you either own it, or you don't. There ain't no grey area.


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Just an unwelcome Texan checking in, but you either own it, or you don't. There ain't no grey area.


Well, that is confusing now isn't it. My deed says I own it in fee simple. But the government tells me that if I don't pay this thing called property taxes, they'll come take it from me and sell it. So, do I own it or not? I guess since there is no grey area according to you, I can't be said to own it if I have to pay the government "rent" for the privilege.

Last edited by JoeBob; 04/10/14.
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I stand corrected. Nobody owns anything.


The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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