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How many shots in those groups in the 3s and 4s?

John


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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I may have missed it but what are you using for sights/optics?


Farming, or anything else for that matter, is easy when your plow's a keyboard and you're a 1000 miles from the field.
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I mount a 16x SS for load development and long range play and a Burris 1-4 MTAC for general duty. The 10 shot group was shot with the 16x SS.

John


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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That should be enough scope. I have a son-in-law who can never get the accuracy out of his rifles he would like. But he uses a 3x9 fat cross hair, on an unweighted lead sled shooting at a big round black target. Just going to a finer wire crosshair in a 16-20 power scope on sand bags shooting at an electrical tape + has brought his groups down to under an inch. You cant hit, what you cant see.


Farming, or anything else for that matter, is easy when your plow's a keyboard and you're a 1000 miles from the field.
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I don�t know what twist your barrel is but it will make a difference in accuracy for bullet weight. Based on your rifle twist it is best to test several bullets for your twist to see which your rifle likes best. Scope power makes a difference also but 16x should be enough power for accurate work. I have a Colt 24 inch heavy barrel target 223 and it will shoot about half inch 5 shot groups off the bench if I do my part with good hand loads. I do not shoot 10 round groups. I load thousands of rounds by hand on a single press no progressive. I trim and clean all my brass. I use Nolser bullets and Varget and H335 powers. My Colt barrel is a 1 in 9 twist so it shoots 55 gr bullets about as well as any. I can buy lots of 500 ct bullets in 55 gr when not in short supply so it is my preferred bullet. I stocked up before this last run because I shoot lots of rounds every year.

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Originally Posted by coxhaus

I don�t know what twist your barrel is but it will make a difference in accuracy for bullet weight. Based on your rifle twist it is best to test several bullets for your twist to see which your rifle likes best. Scope power makes a difference also but 16x should be enough power for accurate work. I have a Colt 24 inch heavy barrel target 223 and it will shoot about half inch 5 shot groups off the bench if I do my part with good hand loads. I do not shoot 10 round groups. I load thousands of rounds by hand on a single press no progressive. I trim and clean all my brass. I use Nolser bullets and Varget and H335 powers. My Colt barrel is a 1 in 9 twist so it shoots 55 gr bullets about as well as any. I can buy lots of 500 ct bullets in 55 gr when not in short supply so it is my preferred bullet. I stocked up before this last run because I shoot lots of rounds every year.


OR, I shot 6.5 twists for many years.. shot from 52 to 90 well under MOA.

And that with iron sights.

So its not always twist, or power of scope or even trigger weight. We could not have less than 4.5 pounds pull weight.



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Run with that....I can get .25-.50 3 n 5 shot groups with lots of work on loads bullets n how I baby brass....but for the most part she runs .75ish with no real work just a good hand load....they shoot great....I have bolt guns that don't do that....

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When you shoot benchrest for tight groups twist and bullet weight plays a big part in overall accuracy. It may not matter shooting MOA with iron sights but all my rifles open up shooting benchrest with bullets not designed for the rifle�s twist. The rifles I keep all shoot better than MOA and they are scoped. I am too old to use iron sights any more.

Sorry I forgot to mention tiggers. Yes you need a good tigger for accuracy.

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That's pretty funny.

I guess you missed the "well under" MOA part.

Last edited by TWR; 04/17/14.
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Well since you referenced MOA I assume you are closer to MOA than half inch which I referenced.
Besides I have never seen anybody shoot consistent half inch groups with iron sites.

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With irons I'm well over MOA, Rost is who said well under MOA with irons. What he neglected to say is that is out to 600 yards, with irons. That's why it's funny, Rost was being humble.

Me, all of mine are scoped but only one has anything close to a target scope on it. It wears a 3.5-10 MK4 Leupold and is a Noveske SPR that shoots 1/2" groups at 100 I think, it's been awhile since I've shot it at 100. It will do 1/2 MOA at 200.

The other two are carbines, one is a chrome lined Colt pencil barrel wearing a 3x ACOG that does 1.5 MOA out to 400 yards. The other is a light weight Noveske wearing a VX6 1-6 with the thick Firedot reticle. It shoots MOA out to 400 as well, maybe further but I haven't ran it past there yet.

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TRW how much TAC do you put under the 77 grain bullets in the LC brass for an accurate load in your guns? or just max?


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Laser trainers I've been on from prone out of a sling at AMU and other places put me around .25 to .325 or so MOA wobble wise....

I don't keep an AR for matches unless it will keep 10 inside .5 moa or less.

My best group was 5 at about 1.25 inches. Not that I really cared cause we put a carpenters tape up against it just out of curiosity. But then that was at 600.

I'll give you this, I can't or couldn't shoot consistent half inch groups with irons. But I could easily consistently shoot under MOA without a bench, bags, or scope and with a trigger not less than 4.5 pounds. And not aperture front sight, Post required, not aperture.

Don't much care to advertise crap like above, but those that think things can't be done havent' tried em much.

I'll give ya shooting 0s to 2s or 3s consistently without a scope or lighter trigger would be tough, but I start at 200 yards and move back. I can't even recall the last time I shot anything much at 100 yards other than to verify someones deer rifle zero. Or coming up work with a subsonic round...


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It depends on the case, WW I ran 24 grs flat in my Krieger but RP and LC I loaded 24.3 for the best accuracy and velocity was about the same.

I have loaded 24.5 in my Noveske chambered guns with both the Sierra and Nosler versions but 24.3 seems to be the sweet spot.

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As for the twist, I've ran 1/12, 1/9, 1/8 and 1/7 and have never found the faster twists to open up a group with lighter bullets. Even my 1/8 22-250ai shoots 55 gr NBT's very well.

So for my uses, I'll stick with fast twists.

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10-4 I am going to try 24.3 as a start and work to 24.6.


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Interesing load TWR. IIRC our team rattle battle load that had to be good enough in 6 shooters guns, and of course we never had the same barrel brand, twist, chamber etc..... Partly due to my refusal to buy another douglas.. but I digress..

77 bthp in LC brass, CCI M41 primers, 2.240 oal, 24.2 TAC seemed to be the best of all worlds for that situation.

Jeff


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With my 1/9 twist barrel I cannot shoot bullets less than 55 gr or in the upper 77 gr without my groups starting to open up.

I would love to shoot long ranges but I shoot at the Austin Rifle range and they took out the long range shooting for action pistol range which they installed in its place. So I am limited to 200 yards at the range.

Rost495 nice group at 600 yards. Maybe we should shoot sometime. I live in Elgin which is pretty close to La Grange. I am also retired so anytime works for me.

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I shot many years in competition at ARC. I have my own range at home. But I work full time and volunteer EMS and Fire locally so there isn't much free time anymore. And I doubt I can shoot anywhere near as good as I could when I was tuned up.

Tell Paul and Rex and the whole bunch at ARC at the highpower matches hello! BTW if you want to see consistent tight iron sight groups watch Paul shoot when he is shooting his match rifle AR. His eyes kinda suck for service rifle post, but match rifle irons are a whole other ball game.

9 twist should shoot almost any bullet out there, from 40s to most 80s. If its opening up I'd question either the twist or that its not a top line barrel.


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I've had several 1/9's that would bug hole 40 gr NBT's and a 1/8 Krieger that shot 45 gr WWB under 1/2" at 100. But I haven't shot anything much but 77's in years now.

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