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Just the few replies to this thread prove Petzal right...in the sense of writing things that sell. That IS his job, after all. Two great ways to sell schit as a writer--tell people what they want to hear and tell people what they don't want to hear... 
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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Petzal has also spoke fondly of the .280 AI. Seems to me that if the 7 Mag doesn't give enough advantage over the .270 to be worthwhile then Ackley-izing anything should be a waste of Petzals time as well.
Last edited by moosemike; 05/04/14.
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The 7RM is a good cartridge. They are as advertised with excellent terminal and ballistic performance, great bullet selection, wide availability of ammo, etc.
However, fact is you get the same qualities from cartridges such as the 7mm-08, 270, and 280 in a more compact package with less recoil. The older I get, the less I use my 7RM. Can�t say I disagree.
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I had a Remington 7 REM Mag in a KS.It was very accurate,but very disappointing with MV.I had a 280AI at the same time and the 280AI had virtually identical MV`s up to 160 grain bullets.So I sold the 7MM Mag.I never thought the 7MM Mag as a big kicker.
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Petzal writing about guns and/or hunting is like Bill Clinton writing about monogamy.
He wrote a review of a book about the Benoits once saying how the Benoits were the real deal because they never used gadgets like GPSs. If he had opened the book, he would have seen they had a chapter in the book on how they use GPS and which ones they liked best.
Another article Petzal wrote was about the ten best gunsmiths in the country. One on his "top Ten" was a fella that had butchered up several rifles of people I know and a couple of my own guns. One 35 Whelen the man rebarrelled would not shoot better than a 4inch group with handloads, factory loads, with me and others shooting it.
The same "top Ten" smith did a trigger job on two odel 70 Winchesters for a fellow I worked with, and when they came back, one of them could be made to discharge by tapping the butt of the rifle on the floor.
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I've never really gotten the 7mm Rem. Mag.. It doesn't seem to do much that a .270 won't do with lighter bullets and that a 30-06 won't do with heavier ones. All with a longer barrel and more weight in the rifle and more muzzle flash, noise, and arguably, recoil. Only guy I ever heard bash a 7mm RM! You must not get out much. I agree with Petzal about the 7 Mag. Kicks too hard for it's performance. I have never understood the following of the 7mm Remington mag. It works, but with little, if any improvement over these 2 rounds. There are people that love the round, I am not one and have always thought the 30-06 was capable of anything the 7mm was trying to accomplish... The same can be said of the .300 Win Mag vs. 7mm Rem Mag. The 7RM is the perfect compromise between the .30-06 and .300WM, so that's my preference 
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Petzal has also spoke fondly of the .280 AI. Seems to me that if the 7 Mag doesn't give enough advantage over the .270 to be worthwhile then Ackley-izing anything should be a waste of Petzals time as well. I can agree.
"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn
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I've never really gotten the 7mm Rem. Mag.. It doesn't seem to do much that a .270 won't do with lighter bullets and that a 30-06 won't do with heavier ones. All with a longer barrel and more weight in the rifle and more muzzle flash, noise, and arguably, recoil. Only guy I ever heard bash a 7mm RM! You must not get out much. I agree with Petzal about the 7 Mag. Kicks too hard for it's performance. I have never understood the following of the 7mm Remington mag. It works, but with little, if any improvement over these 2 rounds. There are people that love the round, I am not one and have always thought the 30-06 was capable of anything the 7mm was trying to accomplish... Well, if we are all honest, there is a ridiculous amount of overlap and redundancy in the cartridge world. Lets face it, if you own a 22 rimfire for small game, a 30-06 for big game, and an "elephant rifle" for large dangerous animals, you are pretty darn well equipped for hunting this planet. Everything else is for entertainment purposes. There are so many cartridges that can do everything the 110 year old 30-06 can do and nothing it can't that it is almost mind boggling to me that they exist. A lot of people have a lot of money to spend on guns.....not saying that is a bad thing, actually quite the opposite! 
"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn
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It really all boils down to whether the reader agrees with the writer, eveybody thinks they know better.
Thats the crux of this never ending caliber debate.
I'm sure by the end of the thread, it will all come down to Grizzly bears
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It's all in how it's loaded.The 7mag has been loaded way down since it was originally brought out.By todays factory and manuals loadings,its quite anemic.With the powders available today,it should be rated as one of the top performing rounds out there and even better than when it was first introduced.I find it very easy to load for,very accurate,flat shooting,hard hitting and my velocities are often much higher than what I see listed in most magazines and loading manuals.I can easily achive 3200fps with 140's,3150fps with 150's and 3100fps with 160's.I'm not stuck on one cartridge for everything.I own quite a few different rifles in different calibers and I like them all,but if I had to narrow my fleet,the 7mag would surely be on my list of keepers.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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I've never really gotten the 7mm Rem. Mag.. It doesn't seem to do much that a .270 won't do with lighter bullets and that a 30-06 won't do with heavier ones. All with a longer barrel and more weight in the rifle and more muzzle flash, noise, and arguably, recoil. Only guy I ever heard bash a 7mm RM! You must not get out much. I agree with Petzal about the 7 Mag. Kicks too hard for it's performance. I have never understood the following of the 7mm Remington mag. It works, but with little, if any improvement over these 2 rounds. There are people that love the round, I am not one and have always thought the 30-06 was capable of anything the 7mm was trying to accomplish... . Lets face it, if you own a 22 rimfire for small game, a 30-06 for big game, and an "elephant rifle" for large dangerous animals, you are pretty darn well equipped for hunting this planet. Everything else is for entertainment purposes. There are so many cartridges that can do everything the 110 year old 30-06 can do and nothing it can't that it is almost mind boggling to me that they exist. A lot of people have a lot of money to spend on guns.....not saying that is a bad thing, actually quite the opposite! I will say truer words were never spoken, and guilty in the same breath. I like guns and have a 'few' redundant calibres. But If you want to cut it to a bare bones few(disregarding 22rf and shotguns) A man could hunt everything in NA with a 22-250, 270 Win. and 338WM and IF God forbid was allowed only 1 rifle the century old 30-06 would be my choice.
BORN to HUNT
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I don't know who Petzal is.............but I know my 7Rem.Mag. makes more noise than my .270.
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I read the article and have to agree with Petzal. If I could get near originally published velocities in the 7mm RM with comfortably safe loads, I would like the cartridge much more. Though, I have only played with a couple, they didn't get much more velocity than a .270/.280 before ejector marks and heavy bolt lift occurred with more noise and recoil. With that said, even at .270 plus P velocities, it's still a fine cartridge for big game. I did have a 7mm Weatherby, which was a different animal than the Remington; I regret selling that 7mm Bee.
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When combining all thing the 7MM Rem Mag sits pretty much at the top of the pile when we look at hunting cartridges.
Many do not understand how to use the reach it offers and are just as well off with lesser round but that hardly changes the facts.
While the .270 Win is a fine cartridge, for short to moderate range, it falls short of the 7mm Rem Mag. The idea that some can't use the extra reach of the 7mm Rem Mag is really not a valid argument.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Yeah the 7mm Weatherby (and 7mm STW) are definitely more cartridge--and can safely get the velocities originally published for the 7mm Remington Magnum when it was introduced. Though those velocities were from 26" barrels, they were also at higher pressure levels than today.
Was working up some loads for my 7mm Wby. a couple weeks ago, and with listed charges of Norma powder got 3300 fps with the 160-grain Partition. But there were slight ejector-hole marks on a couple of cases, so I'm backed it down to around 3200, the max velocity listed by Norma.
That still beats any 7mm Remington Magnum I've loaded for, including the one I own right now. To tell the truth, the only reason I own a 7mm Remington is because of writing about handloading: Any handloading writer who deals with modern rifle cartridges has to own one, because every rifle manufacturer in the world includes it in their line-up. But I've never been wild about it.
Jack O'Connor pointed out that the 7mm RM's real-world ballistics didn't beat the .270 by a significant amount back in the 1960's and 70's, so what Petzal says is nothing new.
My friend John Haviland tells a funny 7mm RM story on himself. John says the csrtridge was so popular in the 1970's when he worked for a local sawmill, every worker was issued a hard-hat and a 7mm Remington Magnum. He had to have one too, and loaded it with Speer 160-grain bullets and a load the Speer manual said got over 3000 fps. And by golly it killed deer, black bears and elk really well in the steep. timbered mountains around Missoula.
A few years later John got his first chronograph, and discovered his magic 7mm RM load was getting about 2700 fps, about like a hot 7x57 handload. Apparently there's something magic about the 7x57 as well....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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While the .270 Win is a fine cartridge, for short to moderate range, it falls short of the 7mm Rem Mag. The idea that some can't use the extra reach of the 7mm Rem Mag is really not a valid argument.
I won't argue against the 7RM, but a .277 150gr VLD at 3k or so ain't anything to sneeze at. Even past "moderate" range.
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When combining all thing the 7MM Rem Mag sits pretty much at the top of the pile when we look at hunting cartridges.
Many do not understand how to use the reach it offers and are just as well off with lesser round but that hardly changes the facts.
While the .270 Win is a fine cartridge, for short to moderate range, it falls short of the 7mm Rem Mag. The idea that some can't use the extra reach of the 7mm Rem Mag is really not a valid argument.
JohnBurns, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what facts would put a 7mm Rem Mag at the top of the pile over other 7mm cartridges with similar performance? Let's say as compared to .280 AI or 7mm WM or 7mm WSM? Thank you.
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Mule deer, why the significant difference in muzzle velocity between the 7WBY and the 7RM? Does the WBY hold that much more powder?
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Yeah the 7mm Weatherby (and 7mm STW) are definitely more cartridge--and can safely get the velocities originally published for the 7mm Remington Magnum when it was introduced. Though those velocities were from 26" barrels, they were also at higher pressure levels than today.
Was working up some loads for my 7mm Wby. a couple weeks ago, and with listed charges of Norma powder got 3300 fps with the 160-grain Partition. But there were slight ejector-hole marks on a couple of cases, so I'm backed it down to around 3200, the max velocity listed by Norma.
That still beats any 7mm Remington Magnum I've loaded for, including the one I own right now. To tell the truth, the only reason I own a 7mm Remington is because of writing about handloading: Any handloading writer who deals with modern rifle cartridges has to own one, because every rifle manufacturer in the world includes it in their line-up. But I've never been wild about it.
Jack O'Connor pointed out that the 7mm RM's real-world ballistics didn't beat the .270 by a significant amount back in the 1960's and 70's, so what Petzal says is nothing new.
My friend John Haviland tells a funny 7mm RM story on himself. John says the csrtridge was so popular in the 1970's when he worked for a local sawmill, every worker was issued a hard-hat and a 7mm Remington Magnum. He had to have one too, and loaded it with Speer 160-grain bullets and a load the Speer manual said got over 3000 fps. And by golly it killed deer, black bears and elk really well in the steep. timbered mountains around Missoula.
A few years later John got his first chronograph, and discovered his magic 7mm RM load was getting about 2700 fps, about like a hot 7x57 handload. Apparently there's something magic about the 7x57 as well.... The 7mm Weatherby I played with shot 160 Trophy bonded Tipped factory loads into 3/4" or better at 3200 fps out of a well balanced Weatherby rifle that went 7.75 pounds scoped. That is a rifle you could hunt the world with and that I should have kept, though the 7mm-08, 7x57, 7x64 and .280 are great cartridges also.
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I have always been a little puzzled by the performance difference between the Remington and Weatherby cartridges; the capacity is about the same. The longer throat found on the 7mm Weatherby does effectively increase case capacity but you can lengthen the throat on a 7 RM too and the Weatherby still outperforms it.
Most 7mm Weatherby rifles I build are throated shorter than Weatherby specifies and they still produce good velocities. I do know, if I was going to build myself a 7mm Mag (I'm not), it would be a Weatherby. GD
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