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Maybe it's time to buy some Irish/Russian Wolfhounds?

OK, you guys are right, I'm wrong. Sorry to cause any confusion.

Also, there is no left-wing conspiracy, nor is there a right conspiracy.

It is politics, period.

Deleted - double post

Shoot, shovel and shutup. Sorry if anyone already mentioned that.
I also think that any wolf outside of Yellowstone should have the same rights as his cousin the coyote.

+1 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> or out of Denali park

Hell yeah Marlin, and when all the tourists wonder where all the deer/elk are tell em to go ask the wolf. The same wolf those damn pork-eaters back in D.C just had to have ([bleep] you Bruce Babbitt).
Different times call for different measures. Instead of wolves man has controlled game population through highly regulated hunting along with mother natures occasional brutal winters. Of course we can't hunt inside the park but we can outside of it's borders during migration patterns. By the way the wolf isn't aware of any boundary so what's to stop his expansion and relentless appetite. I would also rather be shot than eaten alive by a damn wolf. Deep breath, count to ten, I'm OK now. Sam

The feds have turned Idaho's wolf management over to the state...or so they say. It's on paper only. The IDFG wants to remove 50 wolves from the Clearwater area to help the severly depleted elk population. So far, they can't get permission from the feds who still control it. So much for local management. All it did was shift the cost of management from the feds to Idaho's hunters as the entire IDFG budget comes from hunting and fishing licenses & tags. So, Idaho sportsmen are forced to pay to maintain a flock of elk killers who are eating enough elk and deer to reduce hunting. In turn, sportsmen buy few licenses & tags because the hunting is poor so the IDFG has less money to manage the wolves. Brilliant government economics.

Since we already have far more wolves that the original proposal, we can easily spare 50. If these were hunted and the tags sold in a lottery at, say, $500 each, there'd be no shortage of applicants and the IDFG would have an extra $25000 for wolf management.

Dick

Don't want to hijack this, but does anyone here have any handle or idea on what the deal is with the starving elk in Yellowstone? I would think it would be Wolf City if the case of being weak or too many numbers of elk.

Considering the timing of the wolf re-introduction, ie during a major drought in the Western states, elk and deer didn't stand a chance against the wolf. They were vulnerable in their search for forage and water. These days, sheep and cattle ranchers 50-60 miles from the mountains are routinely suffering losses to wolves, and must spend a considerable time and effort to prove wolf kills. Then hopefully there's still some money left in the State coffers to pay them a fraction of what there losses were.

Judge, I've read this till my eyes are fading out. I don't believe in protecting anything in nature that can harm humans be it wolves, snakes, aligators, spiders, Mother Nature needs a little help once in awhile. Mankind is first priority especialy your own child. Wilderness is shrinking more every day and wildlife will need to give way to humans and their food chain. JMO anything that harms humans needs no protection. -- no
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I just reread my post and see where it could be misunderstood. Our game laws manage our wildlife and doing a great job. The coyote is not protected and survives most everywhere, my thought was about rattlesnakes and such. We have hunts every year bringing in many hundreds of snakes and they are still there every year. I didn't miss the wolves when they were gone at great expense and the wildlife florished with the protection of hunting regulations.
What the heck am I doing here in this mess, everyone has an opinion. Most here have never been back in a remote wilderness area miles from civilizationand it's like trying to explain a back injury, (and pain), to one who has never experienced it. I'm outta here. -- no

Yep. Somethin' kills my dog is gonna get killed back.

Up here in Minnesota Timbers "May be shot" if doing or about to do harm to livestock,pet's or people!
We're the only lower-48 state that has that ability so far.
But it it not without having to deal with the same problems that there seeing out west now.
The wolf numbers are high enough here that the state is considering a seaon/bag-limit for the 2007 season.

When the wolves were under federal protection over here,the state paid $383.00 for a milking holstein that was killed by timbers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you had problems with wolves you had to call the federal-trapper!
He would trap and take a couple young wolves then quit trapping.
After both my dog's and my mare were killed by wolves we trapped,snared and shot every wolf we came upon!
But as long as we stayed on the reservation the tribe had open season on wolves!
Off rez it was S.S.S!
Mike

Sapper,

Minnesota changed the livestock compensation level to full market value in 2001, as determined by county extension agents.

Idaho and Montana's problem hasn't been the Feds - the problem has been Wyoming.

Jog,
That helps but untill then you were paid at "salvage-rate"!
But heres the mix,whitetail deer numbers are at all time record highs up this country!
Leech-Lake,Cass-Lake,Red-Lake,Nett-Lake and White-Earth band members are selling hides that they take by trap or shot.
Mike

Now just a minute there pard.

The FEDS told us Wyoming people (I was at the meeting when they said this) that they wanted the wolves in Yellowstone NP and the Y-stone ecosystem. Well, they got'em there where they said they wanted them.

So, what is so damn wrong with having the bastards classified as a predator with a shoot on sight designation? As much as the rest of you would like to think Wyoming is not a massive unsettled area. Even the y-stone ecosystem is clogged with multi-millionairs homes. Areas like the south fork of the shoshone or sunlight basin. So, why do we Wyomingites have to put up with wolves OUTSIDE the designated area?

To me it is kinda like the ump calling strikes when the pitcher intentionally walks the batter. Those pitches outside the batters box are balls and not to be called strikes. They wanted wolves in y-stone & the ecosystem and they got them aplenty. We don't need them in the Snowy range, the Bighorns, or the Laramie range.

As far as I'm concerned, we are just making the FEDS do what they promised to do. Nothing more to it than that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

DAMN STRAIGHT!
On reservation lands they have been never protected but still have a more than sustainable bunch's of different packs!
The reservations have the lowest whitetail counts,when compared to same area's adjoining to rez-lands but yet the timbers over there have been snared,shot and trapped!
All to the Fed's dismay! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Too many "bunny huggers" that think we should let the wolves handle the deer,elk,moose and bison populations and end the tradition of hunting!!!
That is my take anyway.
The Mexican grey-wolf use to be abundant throughout the sw-USA,to include Texas.
But Texas has a state statute against the introduction or re-introduction of predators on the books!
You gotta respect those cattleman for that foresight.
Nope this is a ploy against hunters,thats all.
Mike

Right on Elkslayer ! and I highly applaud Wyoming's stance ; the Wyoming plan is really not much different from Minnesotas law and apparently the Feds have no problem with that .

The big difference though , is that Wyoming has a bunch of public lands ranchers that enviro-weenies in the Fed system would like to harass , humble , or maybe even run out of business.......

Elkslayer,

Like it or not, there will be wolves in YNP - that game was played out 10-years ago. The best case scenario NOW is to have the responsibility for wolf management turned over to the states of Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. �Delisting� and subsequent wolf management by the states paves the way for population control, and yes, even hunting.

For that to happen, two key elements are required: a minimum wolf population and approved management plans submitted by the three states. Currently the wolf population is above the required criteria, and Idaho and Montana have approved management plans - Wyoming has yet to do so. Until Wyoming comes up with an approved plan wolves will remain on the endangered species list throughout the three states and primarily under federal management.

The wolf population reached the federal recovery goal in December of 2002. The wolf population is now at least twice that level and rising. The USFWS would like nothing better than calling the YNP wolf recovery a done deal and turning management over to the states. Proof of that is the USFWS�s recognition of the wolf explosion in Idaho and the extraordinary measure of the revised �10(j)� rule that does in fact return significant management authority to the state. The revised 10(j) rule is a direct response to the failure of Wyoming to gain an approved plan and the resulting effect on the Idaho wolf population.

The revised 10(j) rule is far from ideal because of the federal hoops that Idaho will have to jump through to protect elk and deer populations from wolves, but it�s a helluva improvement, especially for livestock depredation. The only thing stopping a full transition is Wyoming.

Multi-state wolf management is nothing new - Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan went through a similar program. The difference is that all three states submitted approved management plans and the delisting process has been allowed to continue. It�s a good bet that we�ll be hunting wolves in Minnesota in a couple years.

"It;s a good bet that we;ll be hunting wolves in Minnesota in a couple years. "


I sure wouldn't hold my breath for that one.............nor bet the farm either..........