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With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire.

http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/04/know-enemy-of-liberty-national-rifle.html

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What's your problem with this? The NRA started because Union Army officers were upset Union Army conscripts weren't able to subjugate the south fast enough, they supported NFA34, GCA68, Brady, and various other programs to get the federal government more involved in the lives of civilians. Everyone supports them for those reasons, why don't you?


"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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I left a message on that site saying I did not want my dues and contributions going towards anything other than DIRECTLY supporting the armed American citizen. Now I know how union guys feel and I don't like it. If you are a member and agree then let the NRA know, and Brownells too.

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Originally Posted by 5thShock
I left a message on that site saying I did not want my dues and contributions going towards anything other than DIRECTLY supporting the armed American citizen. Now I know how union guys feel and I don't like it. If you are a member and agree then let the NRA know, and Brownells too.


Don't forget to notify Sig Sauer too. The NRA is making a mistake similar to what the left did with the peace movement. It became a grab bag of leftist causes. Turning off many non-leftists that want peace. The NRA has become a grab bag of conservative causes turning off non-conservatives who want gun rights.

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I have been a NRA member for over 50 years. I am beginning to see them going the route of many of our so call Wildlife benefiting organizations where the bottom line is to milk the members for everything they can. Look at the salaries of the top three NRA Biggies. In the neighborhood of 3.75 to 4 million dollars. How many members dollars go to pay this and there are quite a few more that are pulling down a damn good salary. At this point, there are other organizations out there I am looking at to support our second amendment rights that I think are doing a good job. Just my .02.

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Salaries of the top 3 NRA biggies...Sounds like a bunch of politicians in sheeps clothing if you ask me. Congress just passed a 1.1 trillion dollar spending bill...and they made sure they got their $1000/month vehicle stipend included. See any similarity?

The NRA might be a good organization, but if we really want to preserve our rights, we must educate our children and grandchildren that guns are not evil and the real world is not like Call of Duty. There are violent criminals in this country who CHOOSE to use guns in the commission of crimes.

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Support your local Friends of NRA committe and keep kids behind the trigger. This is what we do. We raise money for shooting teams and youth events. It is amazing at how many shooters/hunters don't give a crap about promoting shooting to young people. There are some grumpy azz, self-centered sportsmen out there. We go out at raise money using a soft sell method and still get growled at by these grumpy old coots amd self-centered tattooed up types.

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The Friends of the NRA sounds more like it. I started feeling queasy about Big NRA when I got the ad for the Wine Club. Somebody convinced corporate that they could become our preferred LifeStyle Destination. I'm still a member though,

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Originally Posted by 5thShock
The Friends of the NRA sounds more like it. I started feeling queasy about Big NRA when I got the ad for the Wine Club. Somebody convinced corporate that they could become our preferred LifeStyle Destination. I'm still a member though,


I personally have no problem with the NRA's raising money through commercial offerings. If you do not want the wine, the lapel pins, the items advertised in the magazines, etc., you do not have to buy them.

It takes a lot of money and talent to be such an effective lobbying organization. This is not the oil industry or the others that are supporting free immigration to supply cheaper labor. Those interests can come up with real money. The NRA does it through advertising and individual members.

If anyone thinks that the NRA is a tool of the shooting industry, take a look at how penurious that industry really is. Aside from a few like Kimber, very few of them provide much advertising support.

LaPierre and his aides are awfully effective and are worth what they get. grin


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International lawyer, lately for 25 years in Japan, now working on trusts in the US, the 3rd greatest tax haven. NRA Life Member for over 50 years, NRA Endowment (2014), Patron (2016).
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The left HATE the NRA....that tells me that they are doing their job

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Originally Posted by TINCANBANDIT
The left HATE the NRA....that tells me that they are doing their job


Problem is that the left is as lost as the right. When libertarians like myself oppose the NRA you know they're doing the wrong job well, supporting tyranny & empire.

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The NRA is not what I would like it to be, however it's a lot better than nothing. I've had discussions with my kid about tyranny and empire. And discussions about rough and brutal allies who can fight. Like the Soviets when America needed the terrible fury they could bring. I'm still a member

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Originally Posted by 5thShock
The NRA is not what I would like it to be, however it's a lot better than nothing. I've had discussions with my kid about tyranny and empire. And discussions about rough and brutal allies who can fight. Like the Soviets when America needed the terrible fury they could bring. I'm still a member


The NRA is but a moderate gun control group. I've talked to NRA members who are all for background checks & licensing gun dealers. Add to that their militarism & support for a police state & I'd say they do more harm than good. There are reasons why only 4 million gun owners choose to join the NRA out of 100 + million of us.

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Four out of one hundred. That's a strong and troubling argument Mr. Wolf. Since groups are power, is there any organization around that you would endorse? Something with a track record in legislative and electoral matters.

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This whole conversation reminds me of the anti-vaccination crowd.

They have forgotten and lost sight of what polio really looks like.


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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
...the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire...


Get lost.


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Originally Posted by 5thShock
Four out of one hundred. That's a strong and troubling argument Mr. Wolf. Since groups are power, is there any organization around that you would endorse? Something with a track record in legislative and electoral matters.


The NRA has a track record of supporting gun control laws so I'm not sure that such a track record is always a good thing. I'm a member of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership http://jpfo.org/ I'd rather fight the battle for people's minds, politicians are too sleazy for me.

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I think the JPFO is a good organization to support and I am not Jewish.
I am also a Life member of NRA, if anything I think they are to moderate and to willing to compromise.
Much better than nothing!


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Sounds like the OP has an agenda to drive. Until someone else comes forth to defend the 2A, they will continue to get my support. I suggest others do the same.


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Originally Posted by bigwhoop
Sounds like the OP has an agenda to drive. Until someone else comes forth to defend the 2A, they will continue to get my support. I suggest others do the same.


We all have an agenda, mine happens to be liberty. What's yours, militarism, taxation, war, oppression, & empire?

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I too struggle with some of their policies. I too support them because theres not much to support our cause.


Never take life to seriously, after all ,no one gets out of it alive.
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Originally Posted by sidepass
I too struggle with some of their policies. I too support them because theres not much to support our cause.


A commonly held POV. Since my cause is liberty with guns rights being one of many parts of that the NRA's overall antipathy to liberty makes them unacceptable. Those who see gun rights as separate from other rights or see gun rights as central with other rights as peripheral don't understand.

“…the portion of liberty enjoyed in England is just enough to enslave a country more productively than by despotism, and that as the real object of all despotism is revenue, a government so formed obtains more than it could do either by direct despotism, or in a full state of freedom, and is, therefore on the ground of interest, opposed to both. They account also for the readiness which always appears in such governments for engaging in wars by remarking on the different motives which produced them. In despotic governments wars are the effect of pride; but in those governments in which they become the means of taxation, they acquire thereby a more permanent promptitude.”
--Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man

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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
..... Those who see gun rights as separate from other rights or see gun rights as central with other rights as peripheral don't understand.



Oh no, we understand and recognize pure BS when we see it!


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The other night I watched a re-broadcast of the Clinton/ Sanders debate. They finally got around to mentioning guns.

When Hillary started talking about the NRA she morphed into a rabid beast.I thought she was going to burst a vessel!! Nearly foaming at the mouth, the sheer hatred in her eyes,and tone of her voice was amazing!! I got the impression that she doesn't like the NRA much. sick

With that said, the NRA MUST be doing something right cool

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"I thought she was going to burst a vessel". We can only hope , Kenneth

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It’s Time to Eliminate The Gun
Control Laws: Yes, All Of Them

http://jpfo.org/articles-2016/eliminate-gun-laws.htm

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Here is the most serious aspect. When the writers of the Amendments to the constitution where crafting them. They sought out the strongest legal terms to protect the Key protections from legal erosion over time. This term "Shall not Infringe" The strongest legal term ever written. Contemplate how effective the strongest legal term ever written has restrained some who hate Americas freedoms. Our so called leaders from the local city council to the Supreme courts and legislators in Washington All scheme to erode the power given to the citizen by the term "Shall not Infringe"


The anti American Constitutional party (Democrat). Wants to dismantle your rights, limiting every aspect of your constitutional rights. Death by 1000 cuts is the tactic. Each cut bleeds constitutional rights to control you. Control is the goal.
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6--good post.


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Originally Posted by 5thShock
Four out of one hundred. That's a strong and troubling argument Mr. Wolf. Since groups are power, is there any organization around that you would endorse? Something with a track record in legislative and electoral matters.


GOA! Gun Owners of America.

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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
It’s Time to Eliminate The Gun
Control Laws: Yes, All Of Them


Yep, and thank God the NRA knows which ones are doable and concentrates it's efforts on those. Your "all or nothing" approach will get you the latter of the two.

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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
Those who see gun rights as separate from other rights or see gun rights as central with other rights as peripheral don't understand.


We understand fully. Looks like you haven't come to the realization that without the 2nd Amendment, all the others will disappear.


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Idiotic fruitcakes trying to rationalize not joining or sending dues.

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Originally Posted by cisco1

Idiotic fruitcakes trying to rationalize not joining or sending dues.

Im agree!
Every gun owner should be an NRA member!

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Originally Posted by saddlesore
[quote=darrenlobo] Those who see gun rights as separate from other rights or see gun rights as central with other rights as peripheral don't understand.


Quote
We understand fully. Looks like you haven't come to the realization that without the 2nd Amendment, all the others will disappear.


We lost the 2A when we lost the militia & the govt armed itself to the teeth. All other rights are falling away fast. Anyway, my point is that gun rights are part of property rights. It's only as we defend the right to property that we defend gun rights. Consider the point I make here: Youtube

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Originally Posted by mtech
Originally Posted by cisco1

Idiotic fruitcakes trying to rationalize not joining or sending dues.

Im agree!
Every gun owner should be an NRA member!


Why? The NRA is in favor of gun control. They say "enforce the laws on the books". They don't say abolish the ATF, repeal the NFA, repeal the Gun Control Act of '68, nor do they want to repeal Brady. We could be rid of gun control if the NRA would stop supporting it.

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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
Originally Posted by mtech
Originally Posted by cisco1

Idiotic fruitcakes trying to rationalize not joining or sending dues.

Im agree!
Every gun owner should be an NRA member!


Why? The NRA is in favor of gun control. They say "enforce the laws on the books". They don't say abolish the ATF, repeal the NFA, repeal the Gun Control Act of '68, nor do they want to repeal Brady. We could be rid of gun control if the NRA would stop supporting it.

Unfortunately, you are politically naïve in thinking that these can easily overturned in this time. And who is the "WE" that you speak of? Most gunowners I know would rather set around amongst themselves and bitch about the subject or 'buy another gun or magazine' rather than get politically active and do something constructive to preserve gun rights. The NRA is the best voice with the most clout in this politically charged point in time and deals in political reality, something you seem to know nothing about. The NRA is the Big Dog in the room and it's not perfect but for all its flaws it's still the best game in town.

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Originally Posted by 2Seventy
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
[quote=mtech][quote=cisco1]
Idiotic fruitcakes trying to rationalize not joining or sending dues.

Im agree!
Every gun owner should be an NRA member!


Quote
Why? The NRA is in favor of gun control. They say "enforce the laws on the books". They don't say abolish the ATF, repeal the NFA, repeal the Gun Control Act of '68, nor do they want to repeal Brady. We could be rid of gun control if the NRA would stop supporting it.


Quote
Unfortunately, you are politically naïve in thinking that these can easily overturned in this time. And who is the "WE" that you speak of? Most gunowners I know would rather set around amongst themselves and bitch about the subject or 'buy another gun or magazine' rather than get politically active and do something constructive to preserve gun rights. The NRA is the best voice with the most clout in this politically charged point in time and deals in political reality, something you seem to know nothing about. The NRA is the Big Dog in the room and it's not perfect but for all its flaws it's still the best game in town.


I get your point about political reality what you don't seem to get is that that reality can be changed. The only reason it doesn't change is the NRA supporting the status quo. That means keeping gun control alive. Being able to scare gun owners keeps the money flowing. If we ever were to win the battle against gun control the NRA's money would dry up & they sure don't want that, do they? Bottom line, you're being played.

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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
Originally Posted by 2Seventy
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
[quote=mtech][quote=cisco1]
Idiotic fruitcakes trying to rationalize not joining or sending dues.

Im agree!
Every gun owner should be an NRA member!


Quote
Why? The NRA is in favor of gun control. They say "enforce the laws on the books". They don't say abolish the ATF, repeal the NFA, repeal the Gun Control Act of '68, nor do they want to repeal Brady. We could be rid of gun control if the NRA would stop supporting it.


Quote
Unfortunately, you are politically naïve in thinking that these can easily overturned in this time. And who is the "WE" that you speak of? Most gunowners I know would rather set around amongst themselves and bitch about the subject or 'buy another gun or magazine' rather than get politically active and do something constructive to preserve gun rights. The NRA is the best voice with the most clout in this politically charged point in time and deals in political reality, something you seem to know nothing about. The NRA is the Big Dog in the room and it's not perfect but for all its flaws it's still the best game in town.


I get your point about political reality what you don't seem to get is that that reality can be changed. The only reason it doesn't change is the NRA supporting the status quo. That means keeping gun control alive. Being able to scare gun owners keeps the money flowing. If we ever were to win the battle against gun control the NRA's money would dry up & they sure don't want that, do they? Bottom line, you're being played.

The political reality is that new attempts for more gun control will always be there and will always be pushed by the left. In this country it’s part of the Democrat Party platform. It’s where they buy their votes and get their donations. Duping one more non-gun owning liberal into thinking that one more gun law, over and above the 20,000+ laws we now have, will be the answer to the problem, with no empirical facts to support it. Name one country in the last century that has turned back the clock on restricting small arms ownership to its citizens? There are none. Gun control marches forward.
We have the 2nd Amendment in this country but in this election if Hillary is elected she will change the face of the Supreme Court and put in justices that will NOT believe or rule in favor of your individual right to own a firearm. She has stated as much and it will be her legacy if elected and allowed to do so.
This fight will NEVER end and laws passed now and rights lost now will almost never be recovered.
I think the left loves these petty arguments. It makes their job easier: “Divide and Conquer”.


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Originally Posted by 2Seventy
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
Originally Posted by 2Seventy
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
[quote=mtech][quote=cisco1]
Idiotic fruitcakes trying to rationalize not joining or sending dues.

Im agree!
Every gun owner should be an NRA member!


Quote
Why? The NRA is in favor of gun control. They say "enforce the laws on the books". They don't say abolish the ATF, repeal the NFA, repeal the Gun Control Act of '68, nor do they want to repeal Brady. We could be rid of gun control if the NRA would stop supporting it.


Quote
Unfortunately, you are politically naïve in thinking that these can easily overturned in this time. And who is the "WE" that you speak of? Most gunowners I know would rather set around amongst themselves and bitch about the subject or 'buy another gun or magazine' rather than get politically active and do something constructive to preserve gun rights. The NRA is the best voice with the most clout in this politically charged point in time and deals in political reality, something you seem to know nothing about. The NRA is the Big Dog in the room and it's not perfect but for all its flaws it's still the best game in town.


I get your point about political reality what you don't seem to get is that that reality can be changed. The only reason it doesn't change is the NRA supporting the status quo. That means keeping gun control alive. Being able to scare gun owners keeps the money flowing. If we ever were to win the battle against gun control the NRA's money would dry up & they sure don't want that, do they? Bottom line, you're being played.

The political reality is that new attempts for more gun control will always be there and will always be pushed by the left. In this country it’s part of the Democrat Party platform. It’s where they buy their votes and get their donations. Duping one more non-gun owning liberal into thinking that one more gun law, over and above the 20,000+ laws we now have, will be the answer to the problem, with no empirical facts to support it. Name one country in the last century that has turned back the clock on restricting small arms ownership to its citizens? There are none. Gun control marches forward.
We have the 2nd Amendment in this country but in this election if Hillary is elected she will change the face of the Supreme Court and put in justices that will NOT believe or rule in favor of your individual right to own a firearm. She has stated as much and it will be her legacy if elected and allowed to do so.
This fight will NEVER end and laws passed now and rights lost now will almost never be recovered.
I think the left loves these petty arguments. It makes their job easier: “Divide and Conquer”.


No way, what makes gun rights haters job easier is the fact that their "enemy" (the NRA) is not opposed to gun control. It's a phony dance they do to get money out of suckers. Neither side wants to win, they just want to keep on dancing on the gravy train of donations.

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I'm a member of the NRA. I'm a member of GOA, I'm a member of the NSSF. I'm a member of Texas Shooters Association. I'm a member of Whittening Center. I'm a member of San Juan Wildlife Federation. Not to mention Rocky Mountain Elk Assn, or several other firearm and hunting based organizations. I am doing my best to help.

And here we are with a bunch of whiney tightwads that won't help out by joining anything because they may get a piece of junk mail or a wine ad, or because they don't agree with you 100 percent.
In the highest traditions of Dflave.....Please go ...well you know.



My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost....
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Originally Posted by Allen917
I'm a member of the NRA. I'm a member of GOA, I'm a member of the NSSF. I'm a member of Texas Shooters Association. I'm a member of Whittening Center. I'm a member of San Juan Wildlife Federation. Not to mention Rocky Mountain Elk Assn, or several other firearm and hunting based organizations. I am doing my best to help.

And here we are with a bunch of whiney tightwads that won't help out by joining anything because they may get a piece of junk mail or a wine ad, or because they don't agree with you 100 percent.
In the highest traditions of Dflave.....Please go ...well you know.



Dismiss what you can't refute, got it. Come back when you have something intelligent to say.

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darrenlobo "Being able to scare gun owners keeps the money flowing..." I think you have the situation figured out. By the way, I am a life member. I will keep my membership, but not send a penny until some leadership is ousted. Not likely to happen though.


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the NRA got nothing to do with this

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If the NRA had the views of darrenlobo, they would not only be insignificant, your gun rights would have been gone long ago. That's not a dig on Darren, but his views are extreme in comparison to the majority of gun owners, IMO. If the NRA was going around saying there should be NO gun laws and that we should disarm cops. Etc, etc. That is a message that is not going to grow the org and it takes numbers and dollars to combat the gun grabbers.

I respect your views as a gun owner and lover of Liberty. I'm also an unapologetic life member of the NRA because they (we) have done more to protect our 2A rights than you ever will in a lifetime of soapboxes.


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Originally Posted by Pittu
If the NRA had the views of darrenlobo, they would not only be insignificant, your gun rights would have been gone long ago. That's not a dig on Darren, but his views are extreme in comparison to the majority of gun owners, IMO. If the NRA was going around saying there should be NO gun laws and that we should disarm cops. Etc, etc. That is a message that is not going to grow the org and it takes numbers and dollars to combat the gun grabbers.

I respect your views as a gun owner and lover of Liberty. I'm also an unapologetic life member of the NRA because they (we) have done more to protect our 2A rights than you ever will in a lifetime of soapboxes.


Or they wouldn't have lead gun owners to support gun control. Had they taken a stand like mine long ago we wouldn't be in the predicament we're in now.

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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled �Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself� the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire.

http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/04/know-enemy-of-liberty-national-rifle.html



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Originally Posted by ConradCA
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled �Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself� the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire.

http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/04/know-enemy-of-liberty-national-rifle.html




Criticizing the NRA isn't supporting Antifa, you know? There's plenty of blame to go around.

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Darren, politically we would probably agree. I'm libertarian (small L, philosophical not political libertarian) and I'd agree that the NRA has stood behind things that I don't agree with. I also have to be practical, while they might not do all that I want them to do, they do a damn fine job of lobbying and standing in front of absolute garbage legislation (for the most part). I'll stay a member simply because it doesn't cost much and they actually do some good. If you're that dead set against the NRA, check out the GOA. They are a pretty "no nonsense, no backing down" group.


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Originally Posted by MRitchie
Darren, politically we would probably agree. I'm libertarian (small L, philosophical not political libertarian) and I'd agree that the NRA has stood behind things that I don't agree with. I also have to be practical, while they might not do all that I want them to do, they do a damn fine job of lobbying and standing in front of absolute garbage legislation (for the most part). I'll stay a member simply because it doesn't cost much and they actually do some good. If you're that dead set against the NRA, check out the GOA. They are a pretty "no nonsense, no backing down" group.


I'm a member of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) http://jpfo.org/ because they get it right:

AN OPEN LETTER TO TED NUGENT:
“THE DAY I’LL JOIN THE NRA”
http://jpfo.org/articles-assd02/nugent-open-letter.htm

1. When the NRA announces, from the rooftops, that the police have NO LEGAL DUTY to protect the average American citizen.

2. When the NRA aggressively presses to abolish all concealed carry permit laws.

3. When the NRA calls for the complete and unconditional disbanding of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE).

4. When the NRA soundly condemns, and works tirelessly to abolish, the “Gun Control Act of 1968”.

5. When the NRA quits kowtowing to authoritarian police bureaucrats and takes a no compromise stand against the increasing paramilitarization of our local and State law enforcement agencies.

6. When the NRA assertively speaks to our active duty military personnel and respectfully (but emphatically) reminds them that any disarming of innocent Americans is a blatant and evil breach of their oath to uphold and protect our Constitution.

7. When the NRA forcefully and persistently brings up the uncontestable fact that every major genocide of the 20th Century was preceded by “gun control” policies.

8. When the NRA honestly and accurately “grades” politicians for their real position on the Second Amendment.

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But the NRA provides excellent lube for the A$$FUKING the government is continually giving Americans! What do you mean you don't want lube?!!

Most people are too stupid to understand. They can't recognize the flaws in their own arguments. They use the same words the a$$rapers use, like pragmatism, and common-sense. They don't get that they undermine their own supposed causes. They don't get that they are part of the problem. They don't get that politics is a show that the audience pays most of its money for (no kidding, really), and they don't get that they are not free, and never were. The founders of this nation were free men; the rest of us are subjugated to the fraud perpetuated with the next generation of politicians.

I scorn you stupid [bleep]. May you get what you deserve, you spineless women.


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I support the Second Amendment Foundation and the NRA. If you have been following court cases regarding firearms rights and challenges, the SAF has been winning. The NRA is the biggest and baddest Civil Rights lobbying group ever. Who do you want on our side???







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Originally Posted by Firemann
I support the Second Amendment Foundation and the NRA. If you have been following court cases regarding firearms rights and challenges, the SAF has been winning. The NRA is the biggest and baddest Civil Rights lobbying group ever. Who do you want on our side???


Well if you had bothered to read my article you'd know that my problem with the NRA isn't what they've done for gun rights. Read the article then come back & comment on the points I make.

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Blue ribbon for the most ridiculous thread title ever. The article is just goofy.....you really believe the NRA wants a "police state"?Oh brother........

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Originally Posted by reivertom
Blue ribbon for the most ridiculous thread title ever. The article is just goofy.....you really believe the NRA wants a "police state"?Oh brother........


You win the Saul Alinsky award for the most pointless post. Anyone that wants to arm the govt to the teeth is for a police state. Study the reasons the Founders warned us not to have a standing army. Here's a talk I gave on the subject:

The Standing Armies of Yesterday and the Police State Today
https://youtu.be/BKTVMjU1D1I?t=1m

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I think someone got lost on the way to Huffington Post.




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Originally Posted by pdXammo
I think someone got lost on the way to Huffington Post.


Lost are those who post without reading the article

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I will not get into the weeds of the article, but, as the West Tennessee Director of the Tennessee Firearms Association, I can say with all truth and clarity that the paid leggy lobbyist of the NRA here, all they want is access to Leadership in the legislature and the last 8 years that has been Beth Harwell, the most anti-gun speaker ever. The NRA also gave out "orange cards" to member of the Senate Judiciary Committee that has killed every gun bill in those last 8 years. It is like they have no idea what is going on here with our legislature, and I have reached out, Chris Cox is from Jackson TN where I currently live and work and I have done all I can to get them to help us instead of supporting the anti-gun legislators that are simply incumbents.

I have been a Life Member since 1976 and am currently an Endowment Member, still support the Friends of the NRA efforts, but the "Big" group has stabbed Tennessee gun owners in the back.


"To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."--Richard Henry Lee

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Originally Posted by Pittu
If the NRA had the views of darrenlobo, they would not only be insignificant, your gun rights would have been gone long ago. That's not a dig on Darren, but his views are extreme in comparison to the majority of gun owners, IMO. If the NRA was going around saying there should be NO gun laws and that we should disarm cops. Etc, etc. That is a message that is not going to grow the org and it takes numbers and dollars to combat the gun grabbers.

I respect your views as a gun owner and lover of Liberty. I'm also an unapologetic life member of the NRA because they (we) have done more to protect our 2A rights than you ever will in a lifetime of soapboxes.

This is the truth of the matter. Frankly the NRA and the rest of us in it are better off without him. They've done things I don't agree with, and weighing in on non-gun rights matters is a grave mistake that needs correcting. I'm not a life member, because they have to re-earn my support. And they do.


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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled �Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself� the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire.

http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/04/know-enemy-of-liberty-national-rifle.html



You should ask you mother how high the changing table was when you were an infant. She surely must have dropped you more than once...


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See what Chris Cox with the NRA has to say about the "Red Flag" bills cropping up everywhere...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sN...Af-iGHfhsbFuBZQuplJT-JvzzQfh8Vaah-3JBvJk

Last edited by worriedman; 12/03/18.

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It would not hurt if the NRA went on the attack-rather than the defense. Watch Trump: he attacks on every important issue.
As an NRA Life Member- I think the NRA leadership should reduce its executive salaries and spread
the excess among the employees. The rest should go to the ILA and to lobbyists. Fight & resist starts by sacrifice. Give up the big bucks.

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The NRA has become just a propaganda wing for the GOP. Until they get rid of Wayne and right the ship they're dead to me. And this from a guy who'd been a member for almost 30 years.

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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled �Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself� the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire.

http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/04/know-enemy-of-liberty-national-rifle.html


ur a nut job! good grief

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I am NOT a Libertarian, and I have no use for the NRA either. Collaborators and capitulators. They have quite a long history of being complicit in gun control, and helping to write gun control laws. When they came out and publicly opposed and ran down the Texas open carry movement a few years ago, that was the last straw for me. Piss on the NRA.

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Originally Posted by Stophel
I am NOT a Libertarian, and I have no use for the NRA either. Collaborators and capitulators. They have quite a long history of being complicit in gun control, and helping to write gun control laws. When they came out and publicly opposed and ran down the Texas open carry movement a few years ago, that was the last straw for me. Piss on the NRA.




Sorry Guy, I have to agree with barnabus, you are an idiot.

If the NRA dies off the Texas open carry thing will be nothing, since you won't own anything that goes bang anyway!......Wake up......


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Originally Posted by Old_Man
Originally Posted by Stophel
I am NOT a Libertarian, and I have no use for the NRA either. Collaborators and capitulators. They have quite a long history of being complicit in gun control, and helping to write gun control laws. When they came out and publicly opposed and ran down the Texas open carry movement a few years ago, that was the last straw for me. Piss on the NRA.
Sorry Guy, I have to agree with barnabus, you are an idiot.If the NRA dies off the Texas open carry thing will be nothing, since you won't own anything that goes bang anyway!......Wake up......
I am a life member, but I'm through with the NRA except that I'm staying in to help remove the thieves that run the organization. We have allowed them to rob and completely neuter a once politically powerful organization.


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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Old_Man
[quote=Stophel]I am NOT a Libertarian, and I have no use for the NRA either. Collaborators and capitulators. They have quite a long history of being complicit in gun control, and helping to write gun control laws. When they came out and publicly opposed and ran down the Texas open carry movement a few years ago, that was the last straw for me. Piss on the NRA.
Sorry Guy, I have to agree with barnabus, you are an idiot.If the NRA dies off the Texas open carry thing will be nothing, since you won't own anything that goes bang anyway!......Wake up......
I am a life member, but I'm through with the NRA except that I'm staying in to help remove the thieves that run the organization. We have allowed them to rob and completely neuter a once politically powerful organization




That is a position I can respect. You are not throwing the rest of us under the bus, you are making it known the NRA has some problems and you are among those willing to clean it up.


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Clearly, there is nothing to see in the NYAG statement:

Wayne LaPierre – Executive Vice-President

In his nearly three decades as executive vice-president, Wayne LaPierre ran the day-to-day operations of the NRA and exploited the organization for his and his family’s financial benefit, and the benefit of a close circle of NRA staff, board members, and vendors. Of note, LaPierre:

Spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of the NRA’s charitable assets for private plane trips for himself and his family, including extended family when he was not present.
Visited the Bahamas by private air charter at least eight times in an approximate three-year period with his family, at a cost of more than $500,000 to the NRA. On many of those trips, LaPierre and his family were gifted the use of a 107-foot yacht owned by an NRA vendor.
Traveled to Africa with his wife for all-expense paid safaris, gifted by an NRA vendor.
Spent millions on unwarranted travel consultants for decades, including for the booking of luxury black car services — spending more than $3.6 million in the last two years alone.
Secured a post-employment contract for himself with the NRA, without board approval, currently valued at more than $17 million.
Allotted several millions of dollars annually in NRA funds for private security costs for himself and his family without sufficient oversight on their use.
Received more than $1.2 million in expense reimbursements in just a four-year period for expenditures that included gifts for favored friends and vendors; travel expenses for himself and his family; and membership fees at golf clubs, hotels, and other member clubs.
Secured lucrative consulting contracts for ex-employees and board members worth millions.
The complaint alleges that as executive vice-president, LaPierre handpicked individuals in senior staff positions at the NRA that have shown themselves to be loyal to LaPierre as an individual, rather than to the organization. Time and time again, LaPierre has shown that loyalty, more than competence and responsibility, is integral to his staffing picks, which led him to personally hire Phillips, Powell, and Frazer — some chosen despite failing to meet the necessary skills or experience for their respective roles and responsibilities.

Wilson “Woody” Phillips – Former Treasurer and Chief Financial Officer

Woody Phillips — the former treasurer and CFO, who was responsible for managing the books and financial operations of the NRA — engaged in practices that violated NRA policy, lied on financial disclosure forms, and set up a deal worth more than $1 million that benefitted his girlfriend. Just before his retirement in 2018, Phillips obtained a contract for himself worth $1.8 million, purportedly for monthly consulting services to the incoming treasurer, even though the current treasurer knew nothing about this contract and has confirmed that “Woody [Phillips] never consulted for me.” Phillips, having served in the capacity as the chief steward of the organization's finances, also oversaw the financial practices that allowed millions of dollars in entertainment and travel expenses incurred by NRA executives to be fraudulently billed to the NRA as disbursements by the NRA’s largest vendor: Ackerman McQueen, an Oklahoma-based advertising and public relations firm. Furthermore, the complaint asserts that Phillips consistently eschewed his fiduciary duties time and time again, as evidenced by his failure to seriously respond to whistleblower complaints about alleged fiscal improprieties and his readiness to unilaterally authorize payments and contracts outside of the NRA adopted purchasing and contracting policies and procedures.

Joshua Powell – Former Chief of Staff and Executive Director of General Operations

Joshua Powell, the chief of staff to LaPierre, was terminated after just 3.5 years for, among other things, misappropriating NRA funds during his tenure. Powell, who is known as a LaPierre loyalist, received sudden and substantial salary increases almost immediately after starting his position. Within a month, his salary was doubled retroactively to the beginning of his tenure with the NRA to $500,000. After less than a year, Powell’s salary increased to $650,000. A little over two years into the job, Powell’s salary more than tripled from the original $250,000 to $800,000, despite numerous complaints of abusive behavior and evidence of illegal conduct and inappropriate spending. Further, Powell abused the NRA’s policy on housing and relocation reimbursements, pocketing in excess of $100,000 more than NRA rules allowed.

Powell’s tenure was marked by nepotism. LaPierre, Phillips, and Powell also signed off on the hiring of fundraising consultant McKenna & Associates outside of the NRA’s contract process and without going through any approval process. The NRA paid the company more than $5 million over the course of five years. For all of 2018, Powell’s wife was hired as a consultant by McKenna & Associates, and her entire $30,000 monthly consulting fee was passed through the NRA. The hiring of Powell’s wife was hidden from the NRA’s general counsel, in an effort to not draw attention to and affirmatively hide the conflict of interest, and her role was not pre-approved by the NRA board, as the organization’s policy requires. Additionally, Powell requested an NRA vendor to add his father to a rotation of paid photographers, resulting in more than $90,000 in compensation for his father, an expense which was completely passed through to the NRA.

John Frazer – Corporate Secretary and General Counsel

John Frazer was chosen by LaPierre to serve as general counsel and also served as corporate secretary at the NRA. Between 2014 and 2018, Frazer repeatedly failed to comply with board governance procedures, make necessary changes, or advise others that governance changes needed to be made; failed to ensure that financial transactions were being addressed by NRA officers and directors in accordance with law; failed to enforce compliance with the NRA’s conflict of interest policy; and failed to ensure that the NRA was in compliance with laws and policies governing whistleblowers. Additionally, Frazer repeatedly certified false or misleading annual statements.

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Originally Posted by darrenlobo
With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled �Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself� the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire.

http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/04/know-enemy-of-liberty-national-rifle.html



I was a lobbyist for the NRA. We all know it is corrupt; we know they compromise; they sell us out. They are not the be all. Neal Knox tried to get me to stay in the NRA after he ran to be president and failed. He stayed. Nothing has changed. America has moved left on gun Rights and that includes gun owners (who now think the Second Amendment is a privilege (as per nutjobs like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and John Roberts). Let's quit crying over spilled milk. Gun Owners of America needs your help. The time we spend fretting over a disgraced organization of political propaganda prostitutes is less time we can spend developing some crime prevention measures to put before Congress every time the liberals scream gun control.

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Originally Posted by TheResister
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled �Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself� the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire.

http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/04/know-enemy-of-liberty-national-rifle.html



I was a lobbyist for the NRA. We all know it is corrupt; we know they compromise; they sell us out. They are not the be all. Neal Knox tried to get me to stay in the NRA after he ran to be president and failed. He stayed. Nothing has changed. America has moved left on gun Rights and that includes gun owners (who now think the Second Amendment is a privilege (as per nutjobs like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and John Roberts). Let's quit crying over spilled milk. Gun Owners of America needs your help. The time we spend fretting over a disgraced organization of political propaganda prostitutes is less time we can spend developing some crime prevention measures to put before Congress every time the liberals scream gun control.


A-men to this right here.

What are your thoughts on the Republican Party's role in all this?

Some humor...

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We must also well-educate our children that the government cannot be trusted. YOu must not trust anything you hear until you have done your own research and found out the truth for yourself.

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The enemy is the left and they now own the Democratic Party. Yes, the NRA has problems, but they still are the biggest and baddest dog we have in the fight. Let’s fight to correct and change it, but not do what the NYS Attorney General wants to do and kill it. We conservatives need to stop the circular firing squad.

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Originally Posted by shawlerbrook
The enemy is the left and they now own the Democratic Party. Yes, the NRA has problems, but they still are the biggest and baddest dog we have in the fight. Let’s fight to correct and change it, but not do what the NYS Attorney General wants to do and kill it. We conservatives need to stop the circular firing squad.


Good post.


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Originally Posted by Fiddy
Originally Posted by TheResister
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled �Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself� the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire.

http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2014/04/know-enemy-of-liberty-national-rifle.html



I was a lobbyist for the NRA. We all know it is corrupt; we know they compromise; they sell us out. They are not the be all. Neal Knox tried to get me to stay in the NRA after he ran to be president and failed. He stayed. Nothing has changed. America has moved left on gun Rights and that includes gun owners (who now think the Second Amendment is a privilege (as per nutjobs like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and John Roberts). Let's quit crying over spilled milk. Gun Owners of America needs your help. The time we spend fretting over a disgraced organization of political propaganda prostitutes is less time we can spend developing some crime prevention measures to put before Congress every time the liberals scream gun control.


A-men to this right here.

What are your thoughts on the Republican Party's role in all this?

Some humor...

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Reply / Quote feature may not be working right. The Republican Party does not care about your gun Rights. In the last session of the Georgia legislature, I submitted a proposed piece of legislation that would lower the recidivism rates, deal with potential shooters before they acted - AND NO, WE ARE NOT TALKING RED FLAG LAWS, and lower firearm violence without gun control. Instead the Republican Georgia Senators I lobbied submitted "hate crimes" legislation and it was defeated - AND they lost their jobs to Democrats.

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Originally Posted by pal
Originally Posted by shawlerbrook
The enemy is the left and they now own the Democratic Party. Yes, the NRA has problems, but they still are the biggest and baddest dog we have in the fight. Let’s fight to correct and change it, but not do what the NYS Attorney General wants to do and kill it. We conservatives need to stop the circular firing squad.


Good post.



GOA (Gun Owners of America) is the real pro-gun lobby in America. The liberals look at the toothless tiger, the NRA, and say the bigger they are the harder they fall. I'm just a lowly dues payer of GOA and there is nobody on the left that will meet me on a level playing field to debate gun laws. What would they do if faced with a spokesman for GOA? The NRA? Maxine Waters could take their best on.

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Ok, I surely haven't read all the Posts here. Sorry, but doubt any to change my view of the NRA! Life member since 1958... Really. Endowment Member presently! And disgusted.

There's a general proposition seeming ever true. Power corrupts and absolute power, corrupts absolutely. Wayne La Pierre, has been in power of the NRA since early nineties. That alone is ridiculous! "Fresh blood", also more than just a saying. Folks in power getting entrenched, even the better folks; generally bad. La Pierre's self centered management of the NRA, his accumulation of heel clicking staff participating in management 'his' style; a "regime". Well known, gross misuse of funds for personal purposes such as family travel essentially exotic vacations; super multi-million dollar retirement package; wielding power to maintain absolute control. He's about done it all as 'us' -myself included - ignoring all the signs. Most of us wanting to continue to believe; moreover what other organization as alternative? "THE NRA", simply the pinnacle of gun control opposition... But needing to add "at a price". The price as disclosed strong inferences of corruption, instantly too high. A corrupt organization, hardly any kind of flagship for Constitutional rights!

I personally stopped supporting NRA better part of twenty years ago. Then, a wait and see position. Expecting new management and clean sweep. Never happening! My last contribution as I became a Benefactor Member. Not a penny since. The problem inherent. La Pierre as so ingrained himself in the NRA, the reputation of the organization, largely an extension of the La Pierre "persona". Inseparable. And there he sits yet today. There should be a grass roots movement to oust him with a plan for worthy replacement at hand. Someone well known and respected; possibly retired military flag officer. Most important, a man who can communicate with both sides of the aisle; miraculously without compromising virtue!

My choice to assume NRA Command: Admiral McRaven, up from the ranks as Navy Seal, to Four Star retirement! Check him out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBuIGBCF9jc

Instead of sitting, howling about NRA failed leadership, or seeming worse to me, blinding ignoring... Do something! Here, I'm suggesting. Maybe YOU can do better! At eighty years, myself passing the torch! smile

Best & Stay Safe.
John

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Posts: 1,199
The fact that you think McRaven we be a good choice to lead the NRA, or is in any way concerned about out gun rights, makes me think that, like him, you supported Biden as a candidate.

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