Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 45 acp +p

With all the talk here of the 45 super, I decided I need one.
So I ordered a Para Ordinance expert model that CDNN had on sale with the intentions of converting it into a super.

Well due to the component shortage I couldn't find the proper powder or brass.

So I took inventory of what I had on hand and decided to improvise.

I have a decent supply of Unique and standard 45ACP brass.
So I cast some 255gr lead bullets with my Lee mold and sized to .452.

I ordered the heaviest recoil spring Brownells stocked, a 24lb spring and extra strength firing pin spring.

I then loaded 6 grains and 6.5 grains of Unique.
The 6 grain load seemed mild so I proceeded with the 6.5 grain load.
My chrono read 950 fps, the brass ejected about ten feet, the brass showed no smeared primers, bulges, flattened primers etc...
So my question is for all you 45acp experts is my load safe?
has anyone else tried this combo?

I am pretty happy with 950 fps with a 255gr hardcast bullet, seems like a formidable load.
Or should I just wait and find super brass and a heavier spring and a slower powder?

That's .45 Colt territory.

Your 6.5 gr load is the ballistic equivalent to this load by Buffalo Bore which is loaded in .45 ACP brass.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214

The .45 ACP Buffalo Bore 255 grain hard cast +P starts out of my Glock 30 (3.78" barrel) at a MV of 923 fps. I used the stock recoil spring assembly but only shot 10 of them for testing purposes.

Good info, thanks guys!

You don't need super brass. The pressure is only 28Kpsi. The strongest brass that Starline makes is the +p headstamp.

I know that powder is tough to come by, but when things get better you should switch to something more suitable.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/45-Super-Brass/

45 SUPER BRASS (LARGE PISTOL PRIMER)
0.892 - 0.897 O.A.L.

45 Super* is the same externally as the 45 Auto, but has a thicker web, denser grain structure in the metal, and special heat treat process that enhances the durability of the case. Similar internal capacity as the 45 Auto. Some 45 Super load data was published by Triton Cartridge before they went out of business. *Loads to be shot ONLY in guns modified professionally to handle extreme pressures of this cartridge. DO NOT SHOOT IN STANDARD 45 AUTO!



https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/45-Auto-P-Brass/

45 AUTO +P BRASS (LARGE PISTOL PRIMER)
45 ACP+P, 45 Automatic+P
0.892 - 0.897 O.A.L.

The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto.

I have a Para Expert SS that is converted to 45 Super. I have used Double Tap 450 SMC, Hi Vel 450 SMC and Buffalo Bore 255 hard cast. According to the Buffalo Bore website their 255 HC runs 1090 fps from a Colt Gov't model 1911.

From the Buffalo Bore website:
"The below velocities were fired from my Colt Gold Cup Govt. Model (5 inch) that was converted by Garey.
5. Item # 45S255-----------1090 fps (HARD CAST-FLAT NOSE)"

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=215

That would be an awesome load for my S&W stainless Mountain Gun chambered in .45 ACP.

what is your intended use?

That Buffalo Bore 255gr. hardcast looks very similar in nose profile and seating depth compared to the Lee 255 cast bullet I am using.
My Para Ordnance feeds them like greased goose chiit.

A little thread drift here, but that bullet in standard velocity Buffalo Bore .45 Auto Rim is rated for 850 fps, and I chronographed it at 862 fps out of a long gone S&W 325 Night Guard with the 2-3/4 inch barrel. The +P version of the Auto Rim is supposed to run 1000, but I did not get to chronograph that before I got rid of the gun.

Thanks - the Super is the same case capacity of regular 45acp whereas the +P has less. Joe at Realguns sectioned these cases years ago and discovered that the Super was really just a different headstamp. I've used both.

Cheyenne

I saw your G30 load and it reminded me of a G30 load I worked up for heavier work using a 230g cast bullet.

I poured in 9.0g of AA#5 (which is difficult to find now days) and out of my KKM stock length barrel in my G30 over my chrony got 996 fps for an average. Not quite the heavy bullet as your load but still would sting a wee bit if hit by it.

From my own research, I have a few books on the 1911, the .45 Super is fired in a fully supported barrel so standard brass would be okay but most +P loads are fired in standard barrels so the extra strength brass would be needed or at least an asset.

A real .45 Super load is going to be around 1050 to 1150 FPS range pretty close to the .460 Rowland load. A .45 Super is much hotter than a +P load.

The +P is around 21,000 to 23,000 psi, the Super is 27,000 to 28,000 psi. The 460 Rowland is around 38,000 psi and 200 fps factor than the Super.

There is no way to completely support the case head in a semi auto, yet people keep posting such. Gunchamp has posted pictures that show conclusive proof.

In one of the most interesting articles I've seen lately, Gun Tests magazine ran a story about testing standard pressure Buffalo Bore .45 ACP ammo with the idea of the owner using it for bear protection.
At 960 fps., the 230 FMJ, flat point bullet penetrated 45 inches of water. Even the standard pressure Winchester ammo doing 844 fps. penetrated 36 inches of water with the standard 230 gr. RN FMJ bullet.
So why would anyone need more than that ? At standard pressures, it would not unduly abuse the gun. E

Based on your original post, you are missing some important upgrades to your pistol for harder recoiling loads.

Due to the mechanics of the 1911, a full profile firing pin stop, (The original JB design spec), will lengthen in battery dwell time more than a heavier recoil spring, as will a heavier mainspring. The FPS will need to be fitted slightly.

I'd say if you add those two mods, and change your recoil spring to a 20# max, or to a heavy duty chrome silicon spring, (A CS spring has greater pressure at battery length than a piano wire spring, and that is the goal here), you will be good to go.

Unique is a good powder...Herco is better, but a slower powder will make things worse.

I'd limit velocity to around 850-900 fps in standard brass. That's more within the design range of the 1911 and should be hot enough for most purposes.

A wide FN heavy bullet doesn't rely on velocity to do it's work; extra velocity only adds range, not terminal effect. If you actually do some bullet impact and penetration testing, you'll see that's plenty to get the job done with the heavier bullet.

Nothing you will ever hit with that load will be able to determine a 100fps difference.

I think what is meant is that the case is supported except where the extractor contacts the grove of the case. At least that's the best I can explain it. The body of the case is fully supported in my barrel. My barrel is the same as a .38 Super except of course in .45 Auto.

The case head at the extractor groove is solid, and very strong. Where the case needs support is in the area just forward of the head, where the actual case walls begin, and most newer pistols will support that area adequately when the pistol is in full lock-up mode.

That's not an issue in lower pressure rounds, but what becomes a matter of concern in a semi auto is residual pressure as chamber pressure rises and the barrel/breech starts to unlock...it's a dynamic situation of pressure over time.

The combination of peak pressure, lock-up time, and a thicker case web, when those factors are in balance, is what makes the system work.

That was a problem with earlier production Federal 40SW brass until they redesigned the case with thicker case walls near the web...the case failures were related to case design, not the barrel, although that didn't help the situation.