Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 348 Winchester RL17 250 Woodleigh Weldcores

Did a little work today with the 250 Woodleighs in the M71. Pretty awesome shooting bullets. I shot all at 100 yards with the rifle.

54 grains 2142, 2172, 2223, 2244 FPS



55 grains 2189, 2197, 2187, 2186 FPS



56 grains 2289, 2264, 2302, 2303 FPS



Pretty happy with all of them. I shot the last 56 grain load into the jugs. Seems like a good hunting load.

I also ran my load with RL17 and the 200 grain Hornady on paper, just to check. Still seems like it's on point and ready for hunting as well.

2595, 2650, 2607 FPS



Quite a difference in zero between the 200's and 250's, but everything seemed to print nicely.

Great afternoon with the M71. It is quickly becoming my favorite rifle!

Very nice shooting indeed.

Good shooting, and a nice rifle!

I'm getting to where I don't like you.....

Sorry buddy. These Model 71's are too fun to not spread the word!

Outstanding!

Dunno if you had the powder listed with the deleted photos, but you don't mention the powder used with the weldcores, just with the Hornady bullets.
What primers did you use?
I assume your 71 has the 24" tube.
One promising powder with the Barnes 250 original is H 4350sc, but it is a darn hard powder to find.

It was RL17 I used with all of them. I also used a CCIBR2 primer for the loa in WW cases.

Those old Barnes should be really goo as well.

I'll try to fix the pictures when I can get back to a laptop.

How many grains of re17 did you use for the hornady 200's

Did a little work today with the 250 Woodleighs in the M71. Pretty awesome shooting bullets. I shot all at 100 yards with the rifle.

54 grains 2142, 2172, 2223, 2244 FPS



55 grains 2189, 2197, 2187, 2186 FPS



56 grains 2289, 2264, 2302, 2303 FPS



Pretty happy with all of them. I shot the last 56 grain load into the jugs. Seems like a good hunting load.

I also ran my load with RL17 and the 200 grain Hornady on paper, just to check. Still seems like it's on point and ready for hunting as well.

2595, 2650, 2607 FPS (63 grains RL17, CCIBR2, WW cases)



Quite a difference in zero between the 200's and 250's, but everything seemed to print nicely.

Great afternoon with the M71. It is quickly becoming my favorite rifle!

Breretz, that is looking good.

2300 fps with a 250 grain bullet oughtta put the thump on anything it hits.

I sure hope so.. It's alot of mass. Can't wait to hunt the 348 Winchester.

Well, if you don't believe they're powerful, just look at the woods behind your targets. Why, it looks like that rifle has cleared out a lane.....

Seriously, a 250 in a .348 is quite capable.

Ha! Yeah good point!

I do believe those big Woodleighs will really work. Need to find some hogs or a bear to really test it out!

Thanks for re-posting those pictures, gives a good visual of what was happening.
I have never used RL 17, but the accuracy and velocity are certainly right up there with top loads. Did you get your load data from a manual, or figure it out with a 'puter program?
I'm pretty sure it was Elmer Keith who urged Winchester to develop the 250 grain load, and when they did, they listed the velocity at 2300 fps, so you are right there.
Woodleigh bullets have no reputation around here, because no one knows what they are. If you get a chance to, you might try using a bullet box-a wood box stuffed with wet, or dry newspaper, telephone books, whatever. In my experience any bullet that stays together after hitting this at 20 yards or so will pretty much do what you need it to do.
Whatever happens, keep us posted.

The Woodleighs look real nice from the 348 Win. Seems like it would be really good on heavy game as well. Price isn't horrible on them either, for a really good bullet.

What's the retained weight? That is a classic-looking mushroom. Looks like it would want to dig in.

I'll check again but I think 235-240. It's really an impressive bullet.

I don't think I'd have any problem trying that load on a big bear.

I does look impressive.

Your shooting ain't too shabby, either.

Thanks Vic, appreciate it. Love to run it into something large. Seems like the 348 is meant for the big stuff. Almost feels like a waste to run them into these Va deer! HA

Are the Woodleighs cannelured? what seating depth?

They do have a crimping groove and I believe I seated them at 2.780" but I will check. Should have a chance to shoot them at 200 pretty quick. Thinking they will do fine at that range if I can keep it together.

THanks! let me know! Looks like h-4350 and RL-17 are real close in burn rates as well.

I got 2.780" when I measured mine.



H4350 and 17 are pretty close. I would assume it would work excellent for you..

Cartridge : .348 Win.
Bullet : .348, 250, Woodleigh FN 348
Useable Case Capaci: 60.068 grain H2O = 3.900 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.795 inch = 70.99 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 76 44.00 1819 1836 23218 7081 85.6 1.627
-18.0 78 45.10 1865 1931 24644 7353 87.2 1.586
-16.0 80 46.20 1912 2030 26157 7620 88.6 1.545
-14.0 81 47.30 1960 2132 27772 7881 90.0 1.506
-12.0 83 48.40 2008 2238 29488 8135 91.3 1.467
-10.0 85 49.50 2056 2346 31314 8381 92.5 1.430
-08.0 87 50.60 2104 2458 33261 8617 93.7 1.393
-06.0 89 51.70 2153 2572 35335 8843 94.7 1.357
-04.0 91 52.80 2201 2690 37547 9057 95.7 1.320
-02.0 93 53.90 2250 2810 39910 9258 96.6 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 55.00 2299 2933 42433 9446 97.4 1.246 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 97 56.10 2347 3059 45133 9619 98.1 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 98 57.20 2396 3187 48023 9777 98.6 1.175 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 100 58.30 2445 3318 51118 9917 99.1 1.142 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 102 59.40 2493 3451 54441 10041 99.5 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 104 60.50 2542 3586 58010 10146 99.8 1.078 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 95 55.00 2432 3283 51275 9293 100.0 1.146 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 95 55.00 2122 2499 34721 8912 89.0 1.366


Cartridge : .348 Win.
Bullet : .348, 250, Woodleigh FN 348
Useable Case Capaci: 60.068 grain H2O = 3.900 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.795 inch = 70.99 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 44.00 1780 1759 24630 6283 79.7 1.614
-18.0 83 45.10 1824 1846 26137 6517 81.1 1.572
-16.0 85 46.20 1868 1937 27736 6750 82.4 1.532
-14.0 87 47.30 1912 2030 29434 6981 83.6 1.493
-12.0 89 48.40 1957 2126 31238 7210 84.9 1.455
-10.0 91 49.50 2002 2225 33155 7437 86.1 1.418
-08.0 93 50.60 2047 2327 35194 7660 87.2 1.382
-06.0 95 51.70 2093 2431 37363 7879 88.4 1.346
-04.0 97 52.80 2139 2539 39673 8093 89.4 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 100 53.90 2184 2649 42134 8302 90.5 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 55.00 2230 2762 44759 8506 91.5 1.237 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 104 56.10 2277 2877 47559 8703 92.4 1.203 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 57.20 2323 2996 50553 8893 93.3 1.170 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 108 58.30 2370 3117 53753 9075 94.2 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 110 59.40 2416 3241 57180 9249 95.0 1.107 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 112 60.50 2463 3368 60853 9413 95.7 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 55.00 2357 3083 53342 8791 97.1 1.146 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 55.00 2077 2395 36998 7877 82.9 1.350


Good luck. Post up your results. Can't get enough of the 348! HA!

I'm at the office now, but I think my H4350 load is pretty close in weight to your RL-17. I've posted it here before.

No worries. I think I tried to copy your load but don't stock 4350, but I do keep a ton of 17 on hand. Seems like we end up in about the same place.

OK,
It appears you are using a ballistics program. I wondered, because I cannot recall ever having seen RL-17 paired with the 348 WCF in any published data. After reviewing your results, I wonder why that is the case!
One more thing, B., Don't know if its just the photo, but your pic. of the loaded round oal seems to be sporting a shiny ring just above the case head. I have an old lot of Remington brass I saved for posterity that sports the same ring, in the same place. My concern is that this is a sign for incipient case head separation.
Those Woodleighs sure look nice, and unlike Hawk, they have a cannelure.
Thanxs for keeping us up to date.

Mak, the brass is really only on its 2nd firing or maybe it's third. I can't feel any indentation on the inside of the case so I believe it is where the die stops during sizing. I try and set the die up so I only set te shoulder back about .002" on the 348 so it chambers easily but doesn't resize the tar out if the cases.

I will double check again though and get back with you. It's always worth checking that anyhow. I saw te same ring after the first firing and kinda thought it must be the die more so than the case. They haven't grown enough to trim yet and the LEE FCD does nice work for me on the crimp.

Give the Woodleighs a try. I really like them in the 348. They are pretty reasonable for a great bullet in the 348 Win.

Just checked and I use 58gr of H-4350, MV 2313 or so.

That's a great load Jorge. I'm looking forward to shooting the 348 at 200 yards. It'll be fun to see what them 250's do out at distance. I love the 348. Great carrying hammer!

I hate to say it.... but I told you so!

With the bullet I put together a load for my 13 year old boy and his buffalo/bison hunt. I used H4831sc with great results and low felt recoil. The same powder did great with the 200 grn hornady slug. Give er a try.

Unless you are 13 yrs old, a 200gr bullet in a 348 Win is downright blasphemous.

I run 4350 and 250gr Hawk Precisions in mine.........

I have to start playing with mine! Still in the box

Geez fotis. I was wondering if you had shot that thing yet. I guess that answers my question

Man, great timing, while I was out shooting the 338 today, I took the 348 Winchester along with the 250 Woodleighs. I couldn't shoot long with it like I wanted to, but I was able to shoot at 92 yards sitting off my knees to confirm my zero.



I was very happy. That was using a 6 O'clock hold.

I fired one shot, at the center of the other target.



I cannot wait to field test that load. That 250 Woodleigh is very accurate, at least for a peep sighted rifle.

Damn, that's good shooting for open sights. It would be hard not to take that along for elk season this year!!

How did your 338 shoot? I was hoping you'd post results on the other thread...

BSA, the 338 shot well. I threw up a picture. Need to load up some more and refine my zero as it shifted a little from the old stock and taking the scope off, but it seems to be shooting fine.

Scotty, love 348's and your avatar!

Same here buddy. Both of them are about as good as it gets!

Hope you have the chance to come by the command sometime. We have a flag with a bunch of names signed to it in our HQ. I know Chuck's name is on there. I'll have to look and see if I can find yours.

Have had spectacular results both accuracy and performance wise with the woodleigh 250 in two different mod 71's. Load used is 52gr IMR4895, shoots better than have ever experienced with a lever rifle. Wish could figure out how to post pic's here of groups shot, bullets recovered from moose and this years 50in way past prime bull, biggest bodied moose ever took. Just something about hunting in my filson wool, carrying a mod 71 with peep sights!

If you'd like me to post them send me a PM with your email

Here is Mark's moose, soon as he sends the recovered Woodleigh, I will post that up as well. It does look like it worked and I am green with jealousy he hammered a moose with the mighty 348 Winchester!

Here is a picture of Marks recovered Woodleighs along with his targets. I'll let him tell the story..

Thanks to beretzs for posting the pic's for me. The target pic is from this years trip to range to insure still sighted in. Top group is from new production win mod 71, lower is from an older win mod 71 converted to carbine. Load is 52gr IMR4895. Left bullet is from moose taken this year, broadside at 200yrds, thru shoulder/heart recovered on opposite shoulder. Right bullet is from last years moose, med sized cow, quartering shot thru right lung, thru left shoulder, thru heavy shoulder bone at approximatly 150yrds. Very happy with both accuracy and performance!

What would be second choice for 250s?

Woodleighs are not to be found.

Not by this Ol Phart anyway.

My second choice in a 250gr would be the Kodiak. Just checked Midway and the Woodleigh is out of stock, that has been my source. I get the Kodiaks at www.custombrassandbullets.com

Try Huntingdon's for the Woodleighs and another option are the 250gr Barnes Originals.

I'll check here. Thanks.

This is Bob Bell's 71. I have been reading about it in Gun Digest and other places for years.

Bob never got to shoot a Buffalo. I'm hoping to. Deliver the back straps to him.

Thanks for the tip on huntington! They also had 356 brass,also picked up woodleigh 225RNSP to see if they would work thru it, anyone tried them in that caliber?

Never bought anything from Huntington's, but all I have heard is good stuff.

I was very impressed with the Kodiak's from the 45-70 (350 and 405's). I know I would like to try one of their 250's to see how it compares to the Woodleigh.

Beretz, you still around?

Where did you find .348 load data for RL17?

I saw on another site search that somebody used RL19, too, but I can't find load data for that either...

I'm about to order Woodleigh's manual; maybe those powders are cited in there?

-Chris

I used QL to work up the data.

I have the Woodleigh book and think they listed 17 as well but I’m away from the book. Since 17 is so similar to H4350 I decided to give it a whirl.

Woodleigh bullets have a long and storied history in Africa hunting. A .411 Weldcore 400 grain shot through this buff and was not recovered.


I am also a fan of the Kodiak .458 450 grain FMJ for big tough stuff like this ele dropped with one at 2150 from my 1886 45-90 (custom loaded by Grizzly cartridge).


Same Kodiak load is outstanding for Cape Buff and Bison, shooting through most of them and dropping them like metal targets.

Dang CRS, that’s a good advertisement for their bullets. Very nice!

Got it, thanks. I also need to see if I've still got Handloader issues as far back as that .348 article...

-Chris

Timely post for me, thanks for bringing it back. I am now the keeper of my dad's early 1936 Special Grade... or Deluxe Grade M 71. There's a lot of Hornady 200 gr loaded up but have some Barnes 220 gr and 250 gr bullets available too. As well as a bunch of new brass. It's a lot of gun for WI whitetail, but with dad just passing a month ago, I'd like to take it on a walk through the woods this fall. I have all of the components he had, but none of his load data and no idea where that is. I was a little kid when dad got this rifle, still remember it, guy was selling a huge Winchester collection to buy camera equipment, this was back in the late 60's. Anyway, glad to "find" this post.



Dad was very fond of this rifle, I think mom might have even been a little jealous of it! LOL!

Dean, that is an AWESOME rifle and I hope you smoke some animals with it! It is one of my favorites and usually very accurate too, for an iron sighted lever gun!

Very nice. Mine's from 1937, 24" barrel, bolt-mounted peep, checkering, sling, optional recoil pad...

I just asked in another thread if anyone's got the Handloader #311 loading article... maybe get lucky there...

I have the December 2001 #214 Handloader and there's .348 load data in there, too...

-Chris

Some general comments...

I'm currently in "science project" status just now, considering what I would use the M71 for, and what bullets/velocities might be best for whatever that turns out to be. Critter-wise (?) I don't see the .348 any more suitable for various animals than my .300 Savage... or my .260 Remington, for that matter... with the exception of the great bears. Not too many of those around here...

Anyway, I doubt I'll get out elk hunting again, never cared much about shooting a moose, don't really want to kill a bear all that much assuming he's not intent on munching my arm off.

Bullet-wise, a 200-250 grain chunk of lead, encased or not, is certainly larger. More useful? I dunno... More recoil? Yeah, probably, but not insurmountable.

I'm better with a scope (Savage M99, etc) than without. OTOH, a good peep is a good peep, not insurmountable... especially when the target is probably bigger than a breadbox and distance is reasonable.

Midway has Woodleigh 250-grain Weldcore bullets, and both Starline and Hornady brass in stock. Graf & Sons has a few 200-grain Swift A-Frame bullets in stock. I ordered some of all of those. Arm and a leg, plus a lien on my firstborn. Thought I was gonna have to throw in a well-broke mule, too... Anyway, all that to complement my existing horde or Hornady 200-grain FPs, Barnes Original 250-grain solids, Winchester brass, and some loaded Wnchester 200-grain Silvertip ammo.

I see some articles are describing the current Hornady 200 FPs as "InterBond" -- which may be newer than the supplies I have, simply marked FP. I have mixed feelings about their 200-grain FlexTip. Somehow it seems to modern for this rifle, and perhaps not really all that useful... although maybe an extra FPS or two may suit some.

Might be interesting if Barnes came out with re-engineered versions of their 200- and 220-grain X bullets, i.e., with the bands.

I'm guessing any decent 200 at 2500 FPS or a good 250 at 2300 FPS is good enough for about anything, long as it shoots to point of aim, is decently accurate, and well within pressure limits.

The M71 really does "carry nice" if you want to schlep it around in your hands most of the time, and it shoulders fast!

-Chris

Really cool Dean. Sorry to hear about your Dad. Glad you have his rifle!



I have a Browning M71 on the way had hope to wander the big woods of Vilas and Sawyer Counties with it next year. While wearing wool, of course!!


Tim

Hey Chris. The Flextip is a really great caribou bullet. Makes taking a shot to 300 yards possible if you practice enough. The factory load from Hornady is scary accurate. I'd love to see a good 220 grain bullet as the 250;s shoot so much lower than the 200's that once you decide on 250's you might as well stay there. Unfortunately the 220 Barnes doesn't penetrate any better than the 200 Hornady FP which though discontinued I now have 500 of. The Hornady FP penetrates better than the FTX and is on the edge of moose worthiness. You could do worse than standardizing on the 250 Woodleigh and limiting shots to 200 yards or so. Great bullet and very accurate in my personal made in 1956, model 71. 4 Years older than me and lots more milage left!

So you're a young whippersnapper, huh?

Interesting to hear about the Flextip. I did get some, haven't opened the box to examine...

I'm about half-convinced to use the M71 on this year's whitetail hunt, just 'cause I can. With factory 200-grain Silvertips, but it'd be a good application for Flextips I think. Our deer are sometimes only slightly larger than a Labrador Retriever, so I expect the .348 will work... but I'm not so great with tiny targets in the peep sight much past 150 yards or so. Still, once I figured out how to tweak the sight (described in another thread) I reckon at least the rifle will shoot where I expect it to.

-Chris

I have not taken delivery of my Browning M71 yet, but now have 700 of the Hornady 200gr FP and a couple hundred cast bullets on the bench for her.

I will also want to get some 250 Woodleigh (despite the failure of the bonding on my 550gr Woodleigh) and some 200gr A-Frame. Would also like to smack some of the heavier Hawks into wet newsprint to compare.


Tim