Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Minimum 'caliber' for Kodiak Brown Bear?

I don't care to read the entire thread, so at the risk of repeating what someone may have already mentioned:

Hunting a Brownie with a 270 loaded with stout bullets, and guiding a hunter for Brownies using a 458 are two different things.

I feel sure Phil wants to stop a Brown that is pissed off and coming, or headed for the alders with a 270, 30-06, 338, 375 or 416 through the guts from the less-than-stellar shooting from a client.

AHA AH AH
after "optimum" "Minimum"..... Dick or Brain minimum or optimum SIZE to write on this forum and/or go after brown bear should be the question...

Some MArine should go fishing... to bla bla about pool.....some guys here want to here my 375 is the best or minimum oups sorry not a 375HH or Ruger but THE GREAT THE BEST THE AMAZING THE OPTIMUM minimum Weatherby 375....

Mine is best cause I have a special stellar bullet and it is 10 grains heavier and I have a handload with 0.0001 more powder than yours.

I'm an expert after one (1) brown bear hunt.... good joke... My guide said that the fastest bear down.... bla bla bla.... I live in alaska... bla bla bla...

As Phil said ou can go afer a big grizz or brown with a 270W.... I can give you the phone of a guy. Two years ago he killed a huge boar with a 308W !!! one shot down.... is it the optimum or minimum ? It seems it's the optimum/minimum for THIS guy....I forgot a smal detail....this guy broke trap clay at 500 yds with his 308W...

Last not the least, hunting is not the same than Guiding... you can go hunting with a 308/270 but if you guide you can't !!!! that's all... Between a 308 and a 458.... you can choose what you want.....

Make a ballistic test... "penetration and cavitaiton" are what which make a caliber effective or not.... Look results between 338/375 7/308 416/458 ...

KISS.... Keep It Simple, Stupid....

Marine Hawk you shouldn't be confuse.... just read below... you should understand....

Scott Newman of Petersburg says he's naturally a calm person. He proved it Monday evening as a wounded brown bear on Admiralty Island crunched the bones of his left foot and moved up to chew on his leg while Newman methodically tried to free a jam in his rifle.

By the time the bear chomped on his inner thigh, Newman let go of the rifle and his hope for another shot and tried pushing the animal away with his hands. The bear then began cracking the bones of his right hand and forearm.

Newman, a 39-year-old hunting and fishing guide, told the story of his mauling Tuesday by telephone from his bed at Sitka Community Hospital. He was bandaged and in splints. Doctors had yet to close his puncture wounds, so as to let them drain. He was in a lot of pain, he said.

Nevertheless, he spoke matter-of-factly, going over details with precision, and blaming himself for two mistakes, neither of them very rare on guided hunts.

Newman has been guiding for 17 years, 12 of them as proprietor of his own business. He is called a "superb guide" on the Web site of Field & Stream magazine.

Monday was the last day of a 10-day bear hunt in the vicinity of Pybus Bay in the southeast corner of Admiralty, about 75 miles south of Juneau. His client was a textile businessman from Mexico City. Others on the trip included the client's wife; Newman's 15-year-old nephew, Levi Newman, who worked as his assistant guide; and a cook.

"We saw only 10 bears for the whole trip," Newman said. That included a decent-sized bear on the fifth day, which they let go. On Monday, from Newman's skiff on Little Pybus Bay, they spotted a boar along the beach of the small peninsula that separates the smaller bay from the bigger one.

"I parked the skiff downwind of the bear and we did our final stalk on foot," Newman said. The bear busied itself behind a bunch of driftwood logs. They'd see a leg, then its head. It seemed to back away.

Newman next made the first of his mistakes, he said: He left the side of his hunter and crawled toward the water for a better look. When the bear started climbing over the logs, the client became excited and fired two or three rounds.

"I wasn't able to whisper, 'Wait 'til he turns his side,'" Newman said. He now fired several rounds of his own, big 400-grain bullets from a .416 Remington Magnum.

"I think I got a frontal shot," he said. "I thought I really hit him hard. I was pretty confident he'd be dead" in the brush where the animal ran.

Now came what Newman considers his second mistake. It was 7 p.m. and would be dark in two hours. He didn't want to wait until morning to skin the bear, not with another hunt coming up in a few days. He decided then to follow it, to ensure it was dead and to skin the carcass while they had light.

Newman found a large pool of blood where the bear had been hit and a spoor leading away from the beach into the brush.

He zig-zagged across the trail, circling quietly. It was clear the bear was bleeding from both sides. Newman guessed it had been hit as many as half-a-dozen times.

"I was fairly concerned because he'd gone quite a ways. There was dark blood. I knew he was hurt, but I didn't think he was mortally wounded, so I probably had a live animal on my hands."

Newman was looking at the ground when he heard a twig break. He slipped the safety off and heard a low roar.

"He was ticked off," he said. "He appeared instantaneously. He looked like a freight train coming at me. I knew I had to make the shot really count. I took an extra split second, leaned into it and torched it off. I was fairly certain I hit him in the chest."

He worked the bolt to chamber a second round but "short-stroked it," jamming the rifle. "Damn," he said as the bear barrelled forward, knocking him down.

"Now I'm on my back kicking this bear in the head, trying to get him off me. He's biting my left foot, giving me a compound fracture, crunching the bones in my left leg. I'm trying to get my gun to work."

Newman feared that a bad tear in his thigh could sever the femoral artery, so when the bear bit him there, he switched tactics.

After the boar chomped his hands, however, it broke off suddenly, turned to the side, turned back as if still interested in Newman, but finally walked away.

"When he dropped down, he appeared very sick," Newman said. He thinks the bear, found dead later just yards from that spot, was then only moments from dying.

"It was that frontal shot at 10 feet," Newman said. "It was a mortal shot, and he had just another 30 seconds to live, and in the meantime he chewed on me very good."

As soon as the bear turned away, Newman grabbed his rifle and ran 25 yards away -- on adrenalin, he said.

"I sat down and started yelling for help, then realized I had my hand-held (radio) and called the Coast Guard. ... 'I need a helicopter now,' " he told them, worried still about the femoral artery.

The artery was intact, although Newman did lose a lot of blood. But he never lost consciousness.

"I had a definite sense of calmness. I was very calm about the whole thing. I don't know where it came from. That's just the way I am. I was never freaked out about it. I just knew what I had to do to get out of that situation."

Levi Newman and a man from a nearby lodge helped stabilize him until he was evacuated by Coast Guard helicopter 90 minutes after the mauling.

Levi also worked to skin the bear and get the hide and the others back to Petersburg on Tuesday evening.

Oooppppssss... Just because he was a bear's chew-toy does not make him anything special...

http://www.sitnews.us/0414News/041814/041814_game_guide.html

April 18, 2014
Friday PM


(SitNews) Ketchikan, Alaska - A Petersburg man was recently convicted of hindering the lawful hunting by others, and for harassment.

The conviction stems from a summons by the Alaska Wildlife Troopers Ketchikan Post on June 21,2013, of Scott Newman, 48 years-of-age, from Petersburg. The Wildlife Troopers's summons was in response to a report that on May 25, 2013 at Smeaton Bay, which is 30 miles south of Ketchikan, Newman had committed an Unlawful Act of a Big Game Guide by obstructing and hindering lawful hunting by two persons.

According to information provided in a news release this week, Newman had harassed two hunters by scaring off a black bear that they were about to harvest. Newman reportedly then told the two hunters he did not want to see them in the area.

Through a plea agreement on March 12, 2014, with the Ketchikan District Attorney's office Newman changed his plea from not guilty to guilty to the charge of harassment.

Newman was fined a maximum fine of $500, ordered to pay the complainants, the two lawful hunters restitution of $650 for the cost of their hunt, and Newman was placed on probation for one year.

The names of the victims were not released.



Edited by Mary Kauffman, SitNews

Source of News:

Alaska Department of Safety
www.dps.state.sk.us

Yes and what ? he is fined... Does it change what happened ?

I mean it's a waste of time to try to have a "clever" talk here... most have a nut in the skull...

I don't care about this guide' behavior... I posted a copy of "One" story among many... Cause... the guy was with a hunter... the hunter mess-up the guide himself mess-up and agree.... So this guide is less narrowed than some here....the interesting part was about the caliber used, the multi-shot, 30 sec dead walking biting bear etc etc...

sitka next post would be... "YES BUT with my 458 or my 470 it would have been different.... Nope , it would have been a different story.... except if the guy had hit the brain with a small "minimum/optimum" 357 Mg.....

you should use your brain a little bite more... If you want I can post a copy of many other stories.... guide/hunter were using 375, 338, 416, 458 and the story always end up the same.... multiple body hits... and the bear chew the guy...

I'm done... I just wish than nobody here will be one day in a bad situation with a big bad furious bear and a optimum or not minimum "caliber"... just hope if it's happen the guy will hit the brain or the spine.... have sweet dreams.

Nope, no change to your story at all... But he is a jerk and got what he had coming in another way and sense.

It is difficult to have a "clever" talk here when so many come in wildly swinging for a home run in winning an argument.

As to my brown bear fantasies, I was only there for two in the last month and a whole lot more over the last 40 years. Might have had to kill a couple coming in with bad intent.

My son shot the second brown bear with me last month and he used a 25-06 with 80gr TTSX bullets, so I suspect your guesses were off there, too. I usually use a 375AI with 270gr X bullets, but I have used a number of other cartridges and bullets.



While I have been on lots of hunts, here are links to four of the brown bear hunts I have posted about in the last two years:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7828595/1

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8900362/1

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8873513/1

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6623486/1

You aren't from around these parts are you?

kawi, is that you????

Certainly true in my case...glad to help with the research

NO, too many sentences with reasonable grammar. <G>

I'm still not certain what point he was getting at??????

ESL

I didn�t say any of the silly things you are attacking. It�s a strange, common theme on some of the forums. Grossly exaggerate what someone else is saying and then attack the exaggeration, rather than what was said, and rather than just adding your own experience or opinion and perhaps disagreeing.

I never said that �I�m an expert after one (1) brown bear hunt� or anything similar. But your subsequent post is based on a news article. The other example is the experience of a guy whose phone you have. Nothing wrong with basing you opinion on others� experiences, but it�s ironic that that is what you condescend to me for doing, when that is exactly what you are doing. I also don�t handload or brag about the handloading I don�t do.

I said that a .270 could work well while hunting BB, but if it�s a really important hunt that one can barely afford and may not be able to do again ever or anytime soon, one might want to work hard to get as possible to the optimum.



As to the distinction between hunting and guiding, I get it. It is an obvious distinction. But Phil has said in several places that he prefers something bigger than a .270 for hunting, when the person can shoot it well.



Nothing I said was any different. But it�s interesting how so many on here, though certainly not all, get all angry and hostile that someone might have an opinion (a fairly mainstream one that agrees with Phil in this case), and they don�t just disagree, which is what a forum is for, but attack the character of person giving the opinion with anything they can find, no matter how bizarre. Is that just an internet thing? Or do you do that in everyday conversation? Kind of a dysfunctional way to communicate.

Here, it's like take pee in a STRADIVARIUS... (nope it's not a beer/bear)

I'm not attacking you Marineblind... just +10 peoples here told you the same stuff... people with 40 years "in the field" not magazine, friends, bla bla, one hunt etc... America is a free country we can give our point of view...

But each time you didn't hear what you want... SO each time you come back with a new small or big is it better ?

Please try to "follow me"... when you can work with two coworkers AND both are stupid... you are going to choose to work with the "small" I mean the less stupid of them... Next, Ask to two women if it's better with a small or a big... same kind of question than "what is the optimum Minimum bla bla... Now I swear I shut up my mouth...

By the way Marinehawk... if I was tinking my beloved 338 WMG was not optimum I would buy a 416 or 458 but anyway If I had to buy a 375 it wouldn't be a Weatherby... it's not a optimum 375... from my point of view the best designed 375 is the RUGER... Marinehawk you should yes get the optimum 375 by buying a 375 RUGER and yes, I'll agree with you... Marinehawk you have the optimum 375... nevertheless I wish you a very good hunt this fall (nice weather and a huge bear). Where are you going in which unit in Kodiak (I think) ?

Sitka Deer, I remember reading most of those stories. Thanks for linking to them, and congrats to your son for taking that good looking brownie! You say he used an 80 gr TTSX from his .25-06? Wow... I hunt mule deer quite a bit with my .25-06 and have been impressed, but... Wow! Congrats to the young man. He obviously knows how to hunt & shoot.

Regards, Guy

More unintelligible blathering Is English your second language chief? Your posts are about as clear as a mud puddle. I get that you like to erect strawmen and attack them. I also get that you have an unhealthy fascination with erections. Maybe get together with Boxer and see if he'll help you get a better grasp of the English language before posting more drivel?

It is obvious English is a second language but he does a pretty good job of getting his point across in most ways. That is if you are willing to put a little effort into it.

I take from this post that he believes that if you cannot see the wierdo on the bus it is likely you...

it's a cartoon... this bear was shot with a minimum or a optimum caliber !!!

Sorry if "some" don't understand me... ALL I WAS SAYING WAS THIRD DEGREE....

I have nothing against Marinehawk or anybody here. if not I won't be here...when I asked him where he is going to hunt this fall I'm really interested to know... cause I wouldn't like to be in the same camp than him !!!! (it's humor again)

so to make short a long story.... from 270W to 458 every hunter can find his beloved cartridge.... his optimum or his minimum.... for me the optimum for hunting in Alaska and especially brown bear is a 338 for another hunter it will be a 375. Some native kill polar bear with a 22 hornet or 222 rm...
in lower state my optimum caliber is a 7mm RM for another hunter it will be a 300WHY... We can start a new optimum minimum lower state (mule deer, elk, antelope) post....


by the way if some here (few) don't understand my english or what I'm trying to explain with some 3rd degree.....it's cause some of you don't speak english... but a kind of english... or are too stuborn to understand adult humor.... sorry guys but until now I was polite.... I have no erection problem yet.... I'm quite young and top shape but thank you to be worry... Now I have a new idea of post is Viagra or Cialys optimum or minimum ? I swear I shut up my mouth...

Sitka it seems you're from Anchorage maybe we could have a drink one day and speak brown bear hunting I'm always looking for more knowledge.