Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General 35 remington lovers out there?

Chock full of foolishness, ain't it?

Yep. Factory ammo is better than handloads. Of course, you wouldn't know now would you?

Not sure how many members here now, but I reckon you aren't the only one who has killed $hit with a 30-30 and 35 Rem. Just a hunch.

Other than Blackheart's reply on the non-expanding 35 Rem load, I've become decidedly uninterested in this thread. One outlandish comment after another. Your credibility is shot to anyone who knows wtf they are talking about. You all clearly haven't a clue.....

First off, I haven't bad mouthed the 35 Rem, just stated the performance ain't up to 30-30 in some applications. You don't know whether I reload or not, you just know I don't reload for those two calibers because "There is no need to". Nothing you can roll yourself will add anything significant, and in most cases insignificant compared to some of the wonderful factory loadings availible.

Your problem with the whole thread is, I said something you don't agree with. If you are decidingly uninterested, don't post. If you do post, you are as big a contradiction as your 35 performance -vs- the overwhelming ballistics numbers.

I have to agree with Blackheart, The expansion with the 35 rem at those low velocities ain't all that, but the caliber is still useful and penetrates pretty well.

Again, I hope the 30-30 -vs- 35 rem debate continues for another 100 years. Its a good thing

If you wanna compare your numbers kinda apples to apples, then look at the 160gr 30-30 LeverE -vs- the 200gr at 100 and 150 yards. The velocity I actually get in my respective barrel lengths are 35rem 2115 and the 30-30 2325fps. The energy is fairly equivalent but the deciding factor in bullet performance is the velocity difference.

If the hand rolled 35 rem performs better in your perception of reality, so be it.

You make one outlandish comment after another. Your credibility is shot to anyone who knows wtf they are talking about. You all clearly haven't a clue.....

I have a 336 in .35 Remington....bought it more for nostalgia than anything else. My grandfather had the same rifle and it was the first centerfire rifle I was allowed to shoot. I managed to scrounge up 3 shells,and we put a Hills Brothers coffee can about 75 yards out on the edge of the woods. My granddad handed me the cartridges one at a time, and I pushed them through the loading gate (I was 11 or 12 at the time). With hands shaking, I worked the lever, and took careful aim just like I was shooting my Daisy BB gun. I squeezed the trigger (jerked is probably more accurate, as I'm sure I flinched due to the perceived recoil), and heard the big slug go through the brush behind the target, the can being unscathed.
I racked in the second round, took aim, fired, and had similar results as the bullet plowed through the brush. My granddad took the rifle from me and loaded the third round, took aim....and missed. We heard the bullet as it clicked through the brush behind the target.
I haven't had an opportunity to take any game with the rifle....I'll probably sell it come spring. I have a .30/30 Winchester 94 that I took my first deer with, so I guess that's enough nostalgia at my age. Not much opportunity to hunt deer any more.

Great story, if you are buying for nostagia, the 30 wcf is the clear choice.

Win. Power Point 200 gr. factory loads clocked 1930 fps. out of my 336C and Rem. 200 gr core lokt went about 1980. Neither was any great shakes as far as internal wound destruction or exit wound size as compared to any number of 150 gr. .30-30 factory loads or the 170 gr. Winchester silvertips but old myths like "bigger bullet = more damage = better,quicker killer" die hard.

Power Points and Corelokts that don't expand. Very interesting. Maybe a first. Never heard such a claim before now......

Muchgun, I knew you couldn't really stay away


Any big bullet "myths" for me were erased forever by the 80gr GMX Hornady 243, if David Copperfield could magically DRT game animals with a BB gun, it would be no less of a mind boggling feat.

Like I said, do away with preconceived notions based on what numbers tell you, then look at the actual results, and work backwards.

The only thing left in the 30-30 -vs- 35 equation is about 200fps more velocity and seemingly better performing projectiles. How does that 200fps and smaller diameter make that much difference...It does!

Lets start talking about the 7-08 with modern projectiles and why it could now be the perfect all game caliber.

Bizarre and twisted. What is wrong with you people?

I shoot a 35 Rem, a 32 Sp and a 30 WCF, apparently the game hasn't read this thread because they have all seem to die just fine and not one has asked "What hit me" before they went down. No chrono or ballistic charts involved.

Sure they die, but there is a difference

Normally, you would be wrong right now. BUT, I just so happen to have re-scoped my 35 Rem and need to handload for it this weekend, as I will have no more time before deer season. It has been a while since I used the old gal.

I just checked my bullet supply and 200gr Hornady RN seems to be all that's available. No matter, they perform the same as the 200gr Core-Lokts and PowerPoints do. All expand well and kill reliably.

Upon cracking the Hornady manual I found:

"The 35 Rem is superior in ballistics to the 30-30 Win and closely approximates the 375 Win."

So I decided to crack open a couple more manuals.

My Sierra Manual states:

"Delivering a more decisive punch than the 30-30, the 35 Rem has been a highly popular deer cartridge for decades."

And Speer #14 says:

"The 35 Rem is a better hunting cartridge than the 30-30 Winchester. Although "paper ballistics" show little difference, the 35 Rem handles heavier bullets for deeper penetration. Handloading GREATLY extends the usefulness of the cartridge."

Now please note: I am THE LAST guy who forms his opinions from reading gun rags or from guys on the net. I'm a trigger squeezer, and form my OWN opinions thusly.

However, these are ballistician's writing this, not just Joe Shmo. They make the bulllets, and do the tests. I'd say they have a clue. Furthermore, these writings also happen to depict my own personal experiences/findings/opinions.

There is a manuscript called "1000 Tags Filled". I seem to have lost my e-copy of it. From what I do recall, they shot around 200 critters with a 30-30. They found it to require more second and third follow-up shots than nearly any other big game cartridge. Also, it was at or near the top of the list for unrecovered game. As well as distance traveled after the shot. Read it sometime. No opinions, just facts and real life experiences. No agendas.

Now I will add, for the record, I have not had a problem with losing deer shot with my 4-5 30-30s. However, IME, the 35 delivers a more solid thump, creates larger wound channels/blood trails, and they run less distance, if at all.

If you were to actually handload, you would quite possibly see more of a difference between the 2 cartridges. The 35 can be pushed a good bit faster and bullet expansion is therefore greater.

It is funny, you claim the 30-30 kills better than what "paper ballistics" show. Yet this is the exact thing I have heard said about the 35 Rem my whole life. I never hear anyone make that claim about the 30-30. Ever.

Anyhoo, I know I haven't changed your mind about it. I just hope the outlandish claims will end. Too many to even address, so I won't bother.....

As for mystical 243 loads and 7mm-08s, I have killed lot of critters with both. A LOT.

But this is not the thread for that discussion.....

Really??? HMMMM interesting, I always assumed dead was dead I'll have to explore this most confusing phenomenon as to whether one animal can be more dead than another when killed with a different calibre/bullet I'll report back

I'm not disputing "dead is dead". From a "killologist" stand point, you can tell a difference in the details leading up to that death.

I put the 357mag, 35rem and 375win in the same category for 150 yard kill results, and the 356 Win edges those out with a hand-load. I'm always pleasantly surprised with the 32win.

2much, I haven't bad mouthed the 35, I hope they are both availible for our great grandchilderen to debate. If you like reading all the material regarding facts, logic, and so called real world results, thats fine. Use all that as your personal gospel. I told you before, I see how it kills and work backwards. Many times it defies logic and fact. I have no preconceived outcome based on numbers, facts, and words. Likewise, I don't base a gun purchase on someone else's take of accuracy. I've never needed a follow up shot on any game animals (with any caliber) in my life, except one. It was a buck that took a round of 160 leverevolution through the heart and kept WALKING up a creek bank like he was never hit. I think that round doesn't expand well enough on animals under 250lbs.


I've used handloads, factory, beyond SAAMI, current and past of every loading they make for both calibers. The year that Hornady LeverE 30-30 went south on me, I switched to the Bonded Powermax 150gr HP. I killed truckloads of game that year too. It was the first time in my life using either of those two calibers with any load, that EVERYBODY seeing the animal on the rack said "What the hell did you shoot that with?"

Heres to a long life of both calibers, the perception of the capabilites of both, and a continued healthy debate.

Just Keep in mind, There are some 308MX and 338MX guys laughing at both of us.

Cast bullets -- 35 Rem gets nod

I never meant to imply that 200 gr. 35's won't ever expand at all. Judging by the damage they inflict on deer carcasses, they apparently DO NOT expand to the degree or with the consistency of most .30-30 bullets, particularly when ranges extend. I gave up putting too much stock in what gun writers say in magazines or loading manuals long ago, particularly when it disagrees with my own experience which at this point is quite extensive, both in the field, and at the loading and gunsmithing benches. Furthermore, bullet expansion characteristics and velocity at impact have far more to do with killing effect than pre expansion bullet diameter and/or weight. If you knew HALF as much as you'd like us all to believe you do, I wouldn't have to tell you these things. Oh, and BTW, I started handloading in the early 70's and continue to this day. I rarely load for the .30-30 anymore however, as it simply adds so little to performance that I feel it's a waste of my time.

All I can tell you is that I have plenty of experience also, and that my experiences differ from yours. And that whether or not you choose to believe any ballistics/data, or the quotes from the reloading manuals, I only posted them because they state exactly what I already know to be true from real world experience.

When you tell me "35 caliber holes in and 35 caliber holes out on deer", well that is just simply a phenomenon I have yet to witness with a 35 Remington...

How many deer have you killed with the .35 and .30-30 and at what ranges ? I also have only stated what I know to be absolute fact based on my own experience. It does not agree with the tales told by many ballisticians and gunwriters over the years but there it is. I do have to wonder just how many deer those "experts" ever killed with the two cartridges. My bet would be a big fat "ZERO" in most cases.

Just for the record, I never quoted any gunwriters. Just 3 reloading manuals. I was actually loading 35 Rem loads at the time. And yesterday morning, dialed them in nicely.

What you need to understand, is that you are talking about 2 VERY similar projectiles. When it comes to velocity and SD they are nearly identical. The most popular bullets for them are also nearly identical in construction and both expand about the same %. The only difference is, one is LARGER and HEAVIER. And, when handloaded, the 35 Rem case is also LARGER than the 30-30 case. It leaves more room for improvement. Plus, you can load 220s to 2000fps+. NO 30-30 load is going to outpenetrate it, or make a bigger hole. And, like it or not, my handloads ARE faster with either cartridge. More accurate too. My experience backs this up, and so does flat out physics and logic. There are NO magical rounds. NONE. Only physics. All else being equal, the 35 Rem is a more potent round. It can't not be.

The 35 Rem was my first deer rifle. And no, it doesn't hold a special place in my heart because of that. I honestly don't know how many I killed with it, or how many deer I've killed in my life. Let's just say "plenty" on both counts. I killed my first deer with a 30-06. Not a favorite round of mine, but I own several. When I speak of rifles/cartridges, I am completely unbiased. ALWAYS.

When you hear the term "deer bullet", people are talking Core-Lokts, Powerpoints, Hornady RN, SGK, Speer Hot-Cor, etc. etc. Plain old cup and core jacketed softpoints. Been killing millions of deer for 100 years now. When you tell me one of them doesn't expand, it's hard to believe. That's what they are KNOWN for. If the 35 Rem wasn't better than the 30-30, it would have vanished from the shelves long ago(just like the 30 Rem, 25 Rem, and 32 Rem did). It is still around for a reason.

Anyway, we are beating a dead horse now as neither of us is gonna change their opinion........

It seems to me if the .35 really was superior in any demonstrable way the .30-30 wouldn't have outsold it by 100's to one. To the contrary though, the .35 is nearly obsolete while the .30-30 remains in the top 5 in overall ammunition sales year after year. Perhaps the general public has known all along what you refuse to believe. The real fact of the matter is that 150 grain .30-30 loads run a solid 300-350 fps faster than 200 grain 35's. Due to slightly higher BC's in most makers bullets, they also retain their velocity better over distance. To say 300fps is inconsequential to bullet performance/expansion at this velocity level is asinine. Furthermore, the sectional density of 150 grain 30 caliber bullets at .226 is virtually identical to the sectional density of a 200 grain .35. Therefore, given similar bullet construction and expansion rates, would penetrate virtually the same distance in any given medium if driven to the same velocity. 170 grain. 30 caliber bullets, with their sectional density at .256 would OUT PENETRATE a 200 grain .35 if driven to identical velocity and given the same construction and expansion rate. We won't even mention the 190 grain Hawk soft point meant specifically for the .30-30 to give deeeeep penetration in the largest game. Buffalo bore loads those to 2100 fps in their .30-30 factory loads. None of this really means much except in theory and maybe on paper. The Fact is, 200 grain .35's usually run 300 fps SLOWER than 150 grain 30-30's and that makes a difference in expansion given same/same bullet construction, particularly on lung shots where no significant bone is hit. But is bullet construction identical as you claim ? Not hardly and one need look no further than your aforementioned "Core-Lokt" in 150 .30-30 vs. .200 gr. .35Rem. to see that. At this point you should be getting the idea that you're not going to "educate" me on the .30-30 vs .35 debate, nor on anything to do with bullet performance or ballistics. I've earned my living in the firearms field for a good many years {and still do as a matter of fact} and am generally fairly well versed in this stuff even though I really don't care to talk about it much. Oh yes, and one more thing. In my collection of recovered bullets I have one 170 grain Winchester Sivertip .30-30 bullet. It was shot directly into the brisket of a 172 lb. {dressed} buck and recovered from against the bone in the ham. Penetration seemed entirely adequate to me and the expanded bullet measures .66" so I'd say expansion was pretty darned good too. The deer didn't argue any.