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You guys hunting with 30 cal 155 Scenars: what kind of terminal performance could I expect when impact velocity is 2000 and below?
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Dead Critters..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Regular
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I've seen them crush a very nice brown bear (9' & 27") at something like 2200 fps. Seeing their effect would make it hard for me to believe that they'd bounced off if they were a tad slower........
It'd be tough to trump the deadening they can do.
Suck bullets simply suck.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Hell...they even hold together when Subsonic..............(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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The only criticism I've heard from anyone I know (not pushing the design's possible limits) is that they don't open as fast as Bergers. How are they are 3k on something big and heavy?
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Bergers aren't even on the same PLANET................(hint)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not being a reloader I must ask, w/ great trepidation, who makes these in 308. Thanks in advance.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not being a reloader I must ask, w/ great trepidation, who makes these in 308. Thanks in advance.
mike r Lapua and Cor-Bon
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You'll want to fasten your seat belt,with Cor-Bon...............(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Greenhorn
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.284 Bergers at 3000-3200 fps are one shot killers for Rocky Mountain elk and moose. I have used this bullet myself, watched my son (we use 140 gr or 168 gr), and my neighbor (168 gr and 180 gr with the latter at about 2800)all demonstrate the same results numerous times. I can't be made to believe they are not totally effective. The same neighbor shot a Yukon moose (I forget how it scored, but it was exceptional) at about 1000 yards with a 180 VLD from a 7 Rem Mag. Again a one shot kill. This video was on You Tube for a while but I don't know if it still is there as this occurred back in 2010 or 2011. This is not to say that there are not equal choices among the other brands of bullets but I tend to use what works for me in the field.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Wow!
Thanks for sharing!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Bergers aren't even on the same PLANET................(hint) Yep. The Bergers really stink� 168gr VLD, 10 shots at 100m, about .6 MOA. ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/Targets/168grVLDVarget452grCCI2003105OALLCNMmeasured_zps5780fa3f.jpg) 155gr VLD, DRT. ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/IMG_0178_zps27c3dd67.jpg) 155gr VLD,DRT ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/IMG_0177_zps77c4e81b.jpg) 155gr VLD. Ran maybe 30 yards. ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/IMG_0176_zpsa955cff2.jpg) 130gr VLD, DRT ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/Image.jpg) 130gr VLD. Moved maybe 15 feet and was too sick to move further. ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/35f1d3e2.jpg) 130gr VLD. Made it maybe 30 yards. [img] http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/39aee0c9.jpg[/img] 130gr VLD. DRT. [img] http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/d62e8e1f.jpg[/img] 115gr VLD. DRT. [img] http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/IMG_0389-1.jpg[/img] 115gr VLD. DRT. [img] http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/IMG_0388-1.jpg[/img] To be continued� John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Hondo,
Holy Smokes,that is some magnificent work!...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Really nice photos and info Hondo. I need to post some of my kills with 140 gr and 168 gr VLD's. The species vary but the shots are as impressive. Thanks for sharing these pictures.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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155gr VLD. DRT. ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/Bobcat1.jpg) 155gr Scenar Ran about 100 yards. ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/DSCF0265_zpsed85ce62.jpg) 155gr Scenar. DRT. ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/DSCF0257_zps270b9ba0.jpg) The pig and the coyote are the only things I've shot with the Scenar so far. Scenar Shooter has indicated they are a bit harder in construction than VLDs and based on the very small sample size of the critters I've shot with them, I believe him. That being said, they are very easy to get to shoot well. Here's a couple of groups at 400 and 500 yards. Plates are 8": 400 yards. ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/Targets/400m23May14measured_zpsc9372f22.jpg) 500 yards. ![[Linked Image]](http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/Hondo64d/Targets/500m23May14measured_zpsf9577f12.jpg) John
Last edited by Hondo64d; 08/13/14.
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Holy SMOKES...that is AWESOME!
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Thought for a minute you were going to regale us with how the multitude of critters you have shot with VLDs somehow got away unharmed. I should have known better. I am fortunate in that I don't have to guess...  John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire Outfitter
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Thanks for the pics John! Those steel plates...great shooting!
I have a lot of confidence in VLDs. They do as well as anything I've seen. My only complaint is they haven't opened fast enough. The wound channels have looked like std CE hunting bullets. I shoot for the ribs though.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Tracker
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True. On broadside shots on small critters, they don't really come unglued until a pretty good ways into the vitals. Even so, they have anchored everything I've shot with them much quicker than other bullets on the average.
I still plan on shooting more stuff with the Scenars though. They are very easy to get to shoot well, the BCs are great and there has been enough success with them on critters by others that I am sure going to give them a fair shake.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Hondo64,
I reckon that when you are done guessing,you will see the Scenar light and still be sluicing Rats,Dinks and Vermin.
ToldjaSo..................(hint)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Yes! Everything I've shot with Bergers have been anchored, and none went far. I'm sold, and I have a bunch left, plus a bunch of other bullets I want to try out. I'd not be surprised if Scenars ended up on that list. Too bad the 185 isn't markedly more slick than the 155. They should have scaled it better.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I am very happy with with Scenar's, and see no need to switch. 3 elk and a Dall ram so far.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Haven't owned a gun yet that liked to shoot Bergers.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Haven't owned a gun yet that liked to shoot Bergers.
Wow...! Bet you didn't spend much time working on loads and COAL's. DF
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My VLD testing involved shooting good groups, seating bullets out further, shooting better groups, adjusting one more time, shooting great groups.
My bro picked a load and a seating depth, shot just under and inch, though stringy, and called it good.
Secant ojive bullets do best when tuned, as one seating depth will do better than others. This goes for VLD, or Hornady, or any others with secant ojives.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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For high ogive bullets, check out the following Berger protocol for COAL. It saves a bunch of range time and simplifies the process. It also works for SSII's, A-Max and similar.
DF
Optimizing Precision And Accuracy From VLD Bullets
Solution
The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a �sweet spot�. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.
Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won�t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.
Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).
Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don�t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).
Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith
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Yeah that process should work for anyone loading for secant OGIVES. Misspelled it in my post above.
Tangent ogives center in the throat more easily, and are less sensitive to seating depth. They also have poorer BC. Berger's Classic Hunter line has a tangent profile where bullets contact the throat, and that is the science behind their Hybrid design: first thousandths of the nose off the bearing surface have a tangental profile, and the rest of the nose has a VLD profile. This makes them less sensitive to throat geometry and seating depth.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Haven't owned a gun yet that liked to shoot Bergers.
Wow...! Bet you didn't spend much time working on loads and COAL's. DF No, too much time. Their varmint bullets shoot great. The VLD's are a pain in the ass compared to Scenars and Amax.
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They can be a pain to get to shoot in a hunting rifle for sure.
But, if you can get them dialed in they work great.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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They can be a pain to get to shoot in a hunting rifle for sure.
But, if you can get them dialed in they work great. Yep. When they hot, they hot. When they not, they not... DF
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Campfire Ranger
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Even Berger must have acknowledged they are a pain in the ass, or they wouldn't have developed the Hybrid.
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Berger puts out proven methods to help people shoot them to their capability in a gun. I don't see many bullet manufacturers admitting that their bullets are not without flaws, and helping people find ways around those. What I have seen is that they oversell their products' good points, and remain closed-mouthed about potential problems. I don't criticize Berger for their honesty.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Mine have been pretty hot I guess. Course same rigs are bugholing 180 scenars too.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Appreciate the grandiose humor!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Even Berger must have acknowledged they are a pain in the ass, or they wouldn't have developed the Hybrid. I hate Berger on the average and nearly as much as SMK's and NBT's...which is something.(grin) That being said,the 6mm 105 Hybrid,do nice things. It ain't no Scenar or Hornie HPBT,but it flies nice................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Appreciate the grandiose humor!..................  Jerry Reed. Sort of a Southern thang...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Who cain't appreciate Fred?.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Ranger
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Scenar, RL 17, and lots of magbox makes the 30-06 almost respectable.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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That's what 308Win guys have been WISHING for................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Watched SU35 dump a near 300lb Mule Deer buck with a 6.5 130gr Berger on the run 200yds. [bleep] hit the ground like the chute didn't open. Bullet performance was spectacular (lung).. I doubt a Scenar would of caused that much trama. It was like bleeding out a salmon. One of the best tasting bucks ever..
Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an
attack on the Second Amendment. You will suffer the consequences.
GOA,Idaho2AIAlliance,AmericanFirearmsAssociation,IdahoTrappersAssociation,FoundationForWildlifeManagement ID and MT.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Cool!
You ALMOST done for yourself..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Your right! Not sure how much I missed that one by..  Most likely alot! At least my chcunt wasn't on the couch. And I wasn't pretending...
Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an
attack on the Second Amendment. You will suffer the consequences.
GOA,Idaho2AIAlliance,AmericanFirearmsAssociation,IdahoTrappersAssociation,FoundationForWildlifeManagement ID and MT.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Pretend to THE end...if only as you must.
Bless your heart............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Just what I've always wanted to do! Pretend to miss "the shot"!
Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an
attack on the Second Amendment. You will suffer the consequences.
GOA,Idaho2AIAlliance,AmericanFirearmsAssociation,IdahoTrappersAssociation,FoundationForWildlifeManagement ID and MT.
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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I didn't realize that several hundred years of projectile use have been futile, and that no one ever killed anything until Scenars were blessedly manufactured, on edict from the Divine Christ, to finally bless worshipful hunters with a bullet that will not bounce off game, if the previously damned things could hit anything at all.
Amen.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Lotsa folks don't realize lotsa stuff and those facts typically gets them to Whining,as they wax eloquent from but one side of the fence.
I shoot more in a day,than most do in a year and I assure you that not all bullets are equal................(hint)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Scenar, RL 17, and lots of magbox makes the 30-06 almost respectable. Scenar, TAC, and a decent magbox do the same for the .308.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Tac never showed me anything,in any chambering.
Lapooey cases,'15 and a Skinner do shine brightly,even in the POS 308 hull...........
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Stick,
What's your favorite .308, RL-15 load with 155's?
DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Krunchenticker...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Oh well...
Didn't hurt to ask...
DF
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I'm no Stick but here's my load RL15 45.0 Lapua brass Fed 210 155 Scenar 2870 fps 5 shots 400 yard steel (the imprint on the back tells the tale) ![[Linked Image]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NBdNE7txr_E/U-zZj_mfKiI/AAAAAAAACEc/mUub5xbKXpM/w623-h689-no/photo%2B1.JPG) ![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PL_VeexZwVM/U-zZltfqRrI/AAAAAAAACEs/uppvYnMsb1w/s819-no/photo%2B2.JPG)
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Oh well...
Didn't hurt to ask...
DF I missed the "load" part and thought you were asking which platform I like squirting Skinners from most,that wears a 308Win chamber...which is a Krunchenticker. Every chamber I've had/have whether OEM or Custom,will happily digest 45grs of '15 in Lapooeys................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks, guys.
Was what I was looking for.
DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Didn't want you starting your day off with Hurt Feelers..............(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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308, RL15, 155 Scenar is cheatin!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It'll damned near make a 308 viable.
Almost!..............(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Tac never showed me anything,in any chambering.
Lapooey cases,'15 and a Skinner do shine brightly,even in the POS 308 hull........... I'm with you on the Lapooies, but with TAC I can get 2975 24") without breaking a sweat, and accurate too.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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BT/DT...suffered through all my Tac forming cases.
Junk...........
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I hear good things.
I would buy the DVD of you "trying"................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Seems LR .308 shooters use Varget more than any other powder, at least from what I've seen on line.
I have all three, RL-15, Varget and TAC.
May have to try them all. Varget works so well in the .22-204 and it's so hard to find, I was sorta wanting to save my limited supply for that round. But, a few test .308 rounds may be interesting.
RL-15 is probably the one I'll be using mostly, as I have a good supply.
DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You flatter yourself.
Now when you are REALLY "trying" and doing your "best",what sort of platforms are you using as barometers of these "evaluation"?
Barrels,chambers,throats,twist,mounts,glass,etc.?
It will be funny!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Suffer through the Varget,before you drive '15.....................(hint)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I won't suffer it long... DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've never savvied the attraction and I don't know anyone who guns it,even in reserve...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You flatter yourself.
Now when you are REALLY "trying" and doing your "best",what sort of platforms are you using as barometers of these "evaluation"?
Barrels,chambers,throats,twist,mounts,glass,etc.?
It will be funny!.............. Is this an awkward silence?!?....................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You flatter yourself.
Now when you are REALLY "trying" and doing your "best",what sort of platforms are you using as barometers of these "evaluation"?
Barrels,chambers,throats,twist,mounts,glass,etc.?
It will be funny!.............. Last time out was at Huntsman22's place, shooting PD's at 550+ in a stiff wind. Didn't think it was notable enough to take videos of. I'd rather talk results than components. But if you're that concerned with what other guys shoot, it was a GAP non-typical, Bartlein 5R, lightweight Talleys, and a PM-II 10X. Go ahead an tell me how worthless it is, now that'll be funny. If not 100% predictable.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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DF, try 46 grains of TAC and a 155, I'd be curious to see how it does in your rig, in mine it surpasses varget in velocity and accuracy. And varget is really good.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I asked YOU,in which of YOUR rifles...do YOU make YOUR determinations.
Curiously enough,great componetry allows for great results.(hint)
So when finding THE powder,it's at 550yds in stiff winds?
Looking forward to even more humor!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks, smokepole.
Will do. I may just try that load and the 45 gr. RL-15 load. I don't want to use up my Varget. If it's as lackluster in the .308 as Stick says, no use to burn any.
DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Sprinkle it on Slugs in the garden...they'll start licking their azzes,to get the taste outta their mouths.................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Scenar, RL 17, and lots of magbox makes the 30-06 almost respectable. Scenar, TAC, and a decent magbox do the same for the .308. TAC works pretty well for me too with Lapua brass and 155s, but I just ran a series over the chrono maybe an hour ago using LCNM brass and could only get to 44gr @2873 before reaching pressure signs. of course it was ONLY 100+ degrees� With Lapua brass I have easily gotten to 2930 with 46gr at cooler temps. John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Sprinkle it on Slugs in the garden...they'll start licking their azzes,to get the taste outta their mouths.................(grin) Gotta be some real nasty stuff..  DF
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm no Stick but here's my load RL15 45.0 Lapua brass Fed 210 155 Scenar 2870 fps 5 shots 400 yard steel (the imprint on the back tells the tale) My go-to load as well. Can easily get 2930ish with 46gr and no pressure signs but accuracy is better at 45. John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Full blown "icky"..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Seems to be a firm consensus on 45 gr. RL-15.
DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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OEM rifles are gonna require more powder,to make like pressure of a Custom spout,due it's tighter chamber/throat and bore.
Never had a rifle not happily digest 45 and shoot more for sure,in some............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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You guys hunting with 30 cal 155 Scenars: what kind of terminal performance could I expect when impact velocity is 2000 and below? Trust them.....they work better than good.
Luck....is the residue of design... ![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/96zvyt.gif)
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Anyone happen to know the BC of the new Scenar-L .308 155gr.?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Will go that route,after I've exhausted what I've got on hand.
Didn't want to taste it and suffer 2nd fiddle...............(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Anyone happen to know the BC of the new Scenar-L .308 155gr.? Lapua website is showing the 155 L's to have the same BC's as the traditional.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You guys hunting with 30 cal 155 Scenars: what kind of terminal performance could I expect when impact velocity is 2000 and below? Trust them.....they work better than good. Pat, good to see you posting. Just read a PM frpm our good bud, Hi_Vel. He got his Reticle Tru patented. I congratulated his hard work. Scenars: You and Stick both saying to go with them... I'm sold. Using 139's in my 6.5x55 and am going to load some 155's in my .308. I like what I see so far. Will report. DF
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Don't overlook the 123's in 6.5, good BC for that weight bullet, and accurate too.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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What about 6mm? Stick what do you recommend? I've currently got 105 amax, 105vld hunting and 105 hybrids. Just waiting for my rifle to arrive next week.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I was avoiding light weight Scenars for deer after 90 gr. .240 loads were way too explosive, but they were moving pretty fast. Pat sent me some 105's to try but my 10 twist .240 wouldn't stabilize them. A 9+ twist .243 Rem wouldn't either. Probably need an 8 twist or so.
DF
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 08/16/14.
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Campfire Tracker
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I've got an 8 twist rock creek in 243match coming this week. Can't wait!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Don't overlook the 123's in 6.5, good BC for that weight bullet, and accurate too. I asked YOU,in which of YOUR rifles...do YOU make YOUR determinations. Curiously enough,great componetry allows for great results.(hint) So when finding THE powder,it's at 550yds in stiff winds? Looking forward to even more humor!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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What about 6mm? Stick what do you recommend? I've currently got 105 amax, 105vld hunting and 105 hybrids. Just waiting for my rifle to arrive next week. What's the application? Chambering,twist,COAL?..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've got an 8 twist rock creek in 243match coming this week. Can't wait! Was a Post shy of reading the whole thread and see your specifics,other than COAL. 700? AICS-esque DBM or ADL/BDL?.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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What about 6mm? Stick what do you recommend? I've currently got 105 amax, 105vld hunting and 105 hybrids. Just waiting for my rifle to arrive next week. What's the application? Chambering,twist,COAL?.............. 243win 8twist 2.950 Wyatt's box installed
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Don't overlook the 123's in 6.5, good BC for that weight bullet, and accurate too. I asked YOU,in which of YOUR rifles...do YOU make YOUR determinations. Yes, I know you did. And who said anything about testing loads in stiff winds?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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805,
You are GOLDEN in latitude...well done.
For bloodspill,I'd take the 'Max over the Berger(s). For distant dastardly pursuits without heartbeats,the Hybrid really is a wicked bastard.
Bang for the buck and connecting all dots,Hornie HPBT..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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smokepole,
You are sooooooooo clueless,it is amazing..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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For distant dastardly pursuits without heartbeats,the Hybrid really is a wicked bastard.
I wish that I haden't read that. Just finished up a 243 AI load for antelope and coues deer with 105 Hybrids at 3125
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Shoot 'em like broadheads and you'll pad the equation..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Avoid the hard stuff. I get it
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It'll do you favors............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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smokepole,
You are sooooooooo clueless,it is amazing.................. I just wish you cracked me up half as much as you crack yourself up. Now that'd be funny.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You ain't got nearly half the smarts,to keep nearly half the pace...which does of course add more than a whole bunch to the humor.
GOOD call to skirt the Imaginary rifle(s) "particulars",it wasn't going to be pretty...............(hint)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm not skirting anything, what was the particular you were interested in?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Running the 155 at 2.85" kissing and 2950 avg from 46 or 47 gr of Varget...oops! Might haul it up this year after Muley if I don't go caveman on them with the .44 mag.... Now I just got to find some unsuspecting soul to dump all my other .308 bullets on....
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Go caveman, I dare ya. I'll buy the bullets if it comes to that.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Yeah what others do you have? I'm always in the market for more throwaway bullets!
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'm not skirting anything, what was the particular you were interested in? Only the 3rd time: I asked YOU,in which of YOUR rifles...do YOU make YOUR determinations. Curiously enough,great componetry allows for great results.(hint) So when finding THE powder,it's at 550yds in stiff winds? Looking forward to even more humor!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
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You guys hunting with 30 cal 155 Scenars: what kind of terminal performance could I expect when impact velocity is 2000 and below? Trust them.....they work better than good. How easy is it to get them to shoot well? My 30-06 has a very, very long throat, so in order to keep bullets in cases, they'll have to be off the lands. How would you recommend I go about figuring a seating depth? I usually start about as far out as I can get and go deeper. I appreciate any advice you can offer. If I can shoot them accurately at or above 3k, they will shoot pretty flat. I'm always willing to try bullets that cost less than 50 cents apiece!
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You should start listening..................(hint)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'm not skirting anything, what was the particular you were interested in? Yet another Awkward Silence Bump(ASB): Only the 3rd time: I asked YOU,in which of YOUR rifles...do YOU make YOUR determinations. Curiously enough,great componetry allows for great results.(hint) So when finding THE powder,it's at 550yds in stiff winds? Looking forward to even more humor!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I see some bump the lands, some jump'em.
Is the 155 Scenar in the .308, COAL sensitive?
Or asked another way, is there an optimal jump range? This is a hunting application, not LR target.
DF
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I haven't found the Scenars to be seating depth sensitive at all. In my rig, the 155s shoot a hair better when about .020" off the lands than when slightly into the lands, but the difference is minimal.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire Tracker
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I've found the 155's very insensitive to seating depth. Like I said before, the RL15 & Lapua brass combo feels like cheating.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I see some bump the lands, some jump'em.
Is the 155 Scenar in the .308, COAL sensitive?
Or asked another way, is there an optimal jump range? This is a hunting application, not LR target.
DF I'm ALWAYS gonna kiss when I can and leap only when forced.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm not skirting anything, what was the particular you were interested in? Only the 3rd time: I asked YOU,in which of YOUR rifles...do YOU make YOUR determinations. Curiously enough,great componetry allows for great results.(hint) So when finding THE powder,it's at 550yds in stiff winds? Looking forward to even more humor!.................. So, you want me to describe my current .308 set-up, and you've already asked 3 times, do I have that right? Just want to make sure I answer your question correctly, this is important stuff.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's funny how far everything is over your head!....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm 6'3", think how much farther it is over yours.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Schit often gets stacked deep,as you attest.
Your Powder "Testing" is hilarious....like everything else you "do"!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm 6'3", think how much farther it is over yours.
LOL!
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Oh it's funnier than that,but for reasons that need explained to you.................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It's more about the indian than the arrow, but please, go on, keep talking about your arrows.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Beware the best Indian,with the best arrows...............(hint)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Indians and arrows...meh. Booze and diseased blankets, followed by welfare checks. Then the only hope is building casinos and selling fireworks.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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They can only do the best they can,with what little they have to work with.
Have actually worked with a couple Good 'Un's,but they's few and far.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Well, that's mighty white of you.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'm at ease in being a Honky.
Hey I'm curious,what does some as stupid as you "do" for a "Living"?
Thanks!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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We've been through this before. Any time you wanna match W-2's to see who comes out on top, let me know!!
Thanks!!
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Love the Secret Squirrel stuff!...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Interesting cut-away from another post. 7mm's L-R, 150 Scenar,180 Scenar and a 168 Berger ![[Linked Image]](http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg342/steveberrett/Mobile%20Uploads/2fe304a7-4e9c-48bb-86ff-c2211d60f545_zpscd32795d.jpg)
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm going with the 155 scenars this year in my 300 wsm. They are running 3350 fps and sub 1/2 moa. I've used them for a while in 308 and they've been my go to bullet in my 1st gen Ti 30-06 so I thought I'd give them a try with a little more speed.
Bb
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Campfire Tracker
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Well seeing as I'm no reloading expert, Im pretty impressed with my results with the 155 Scenar in my 30-06 paired up with H4350. Seeing as I'm shooting it out of a Tikka, kissin lands is no option. I loaded em as long as the mag would allow and still function reliably and it doesn't appear to be a handicap. I've got em right at 3.34 OAL and they're shooting less than an inch size groups at 200 yards. I Just hope they kill well as I've never shot these bullets before. At 100 for 5 ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/DallSheep4me/imagejpg1_zps832d6f5e.jpg)
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At 200 yards ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/DallSheep4me/imagejpg1_zps5cc8ae23.jpg)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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My 30-06 seems to do pretty decent with the 155 Scenars as well.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd be first in line for .277 Scenars.
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have shot sierra matchkings in .224, and .243. They are extremely accurate, but do not open up on coyotes or deer. Have had 3 deer shot with a .222 with match kings that had very small exit holes on the off side, one through the shoulder. Same on coyotes. I fixed this by simply going to the 55 gr. gkhp. Still good accuracy, and they open up like a hollow point would be expected to. have talked to guys that had the same experience with 30 cal match kings on game.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I didn't look back through the whole thread, but anyone have results on big game with 6.5 123's??
Thanks.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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have shot sierra matchkings in .224, and .243. They are extremely accurate, but do not open up on coyotes or deer. Have had 3 deer shot with a .222 with match kings that had very small exit holes on the off side, one through the shoulder. Same on coyotes. I fixed this by simply going to the 55 gr. gkhp. Still good accuracy, and they open up like a hollow point would be expected to. have talked to guys that had the same experience with 30 cal match kings on game. I have shot a fair amount of game, pigs and deer, with .224 and .308 matchkings from my competition rifles.. its what I had at hand. Have yet to loose anything. Or see any issues that would make me not use matchkings. Some perform better than others at times, but thats the case with every shot you make. The only "perfect" bullet performance I've seen over the years has been Barnes.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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I didn't look back through the whole thread, but anyone have results on big game with 6.5 123's??
Thanks. smokepole, In a few weeks my .257SLR will become a 6.5SLR. I have 200 of them waiting to be fired at an expected 3,400 feet per second. I will let you know if no one else does.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks Ringman. They shoot well in all my 6.5's, hopefully the same in yours but there's not a lot of information on game out there.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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smokepole,
In a few weeks my .257SLR will become a 6.5SLR. I have 200 of them waiting to be fired at an expected 3,400 feet per second. I will let you know if no one else does.
How long is the barrel going to be?
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Campfire Ranger
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Taking the 123s for lope this weekend. Fyi
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Taking the 123s for lope this weekend. Fyi Please post your results. Loving the 123 Scenars for accuracy in my 6.5CM, planning on trying some on deer later this year. David
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Hoping you'll do likewise.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Hoping you'll do likewise. Willl do. David
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No problem, assuming I don't miss!
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Campfire Ranger
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They weren't shabby in my '06 Tikker. Love the 108's in my Faux 260 and wished like hell is was twisted 1:8 and AI'd for 139's. ![[Linked Image]](http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx210/16bore/3006scenar_zps8e4eaa7c.jpg)
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Nice groups. What kind of speed are you getting with 56g H4350. My 1st gen Ti likes 62g. It's warm and clocks just over 3k but it shoots well.
Bb
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It's a powder puff at 2,800. Sub 308 Win'ish...
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Update: I shot an antelope with the 123 Scenars. 300 yards = bang flop. Will update with photos later.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Cool, I've been waiting for this.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Outfitter
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Update: I shot an antelope with the 123 Scenars. 300 yards = bang flop. Will update with photos later.
Same story with my Dall ram last summer!
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Campfire Ranger
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Entrance pic. Antelope was slightly quartering to me. Bullet went in, and broke ribs. Then veered left, traveled the whole length of the antelope and came out his hind quarter. ![[Linked Image]](http://i59.tinypic.com/29vih03.jpg) He lifted his head up, so I shot him again. (didn't need to, but force of habit.) I hit him in the neck. Bullet exited the neck and made three holes. One main hole a little larger than a quarter, and two smaller holes from shrapnel. ![[Linked Image]](http://i57.tinypic.com/28vbt54.jpg) Tikka... ![[Linked Image]](http://i60.tinypic.com/kdtill.jpg)
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not a lot of bloodshot meat there.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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Another 123 Scenar victim. Quartering away at 100 yds. ![[Linked Image]](http://i59.tinypic.com/30bl8iu.jpg)
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Assuming it exited, what was the size of the exit wound? I hope to do the same this weekend.
Looks to be a little larger than your scope objective?
Last edited by smokepole; 10/23/14.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It did exit, but you cannot see it in the pic. A habit of my archery days is to aim for the shoulder on the opposite side. Didn't take any pics, but it did mess up the shoulder meat. Hardly any sign of an entrance, they go in a few inches and blow up I believe.
She dropped so fast that I thought I missed, even though I heard the blap.
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Campfire Regular
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Those Scenars seem like they're working well. Dogcatcher, great photos!
Last edited by trailrider121; 10/23/14.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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thanks, deer tag in another week or so. Might get bull tag too.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I just ordered 1000 308 155 Scenars. Looking forward to cranking them out of my 300 WSM's, one of which will push 150's faster than a speeding bullet.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Hardly any sign of an entrance, they go in a few inches and blow up I believe.
That pretty much describes the 90 grain(243) mule deer I got last year. Dropped like a ton of bricks. Found some fragments, lost shoulder meat.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Good read in this thread.
I hope you enjoy.
Randy
NRA
Patriot Life Benefactor
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Golden Oldie.....
167’s anyone?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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And still quite pertinent. I really enjoy the use of the 155's in my 308's & 300 WSM's.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Yes, there is some great information here.
Texas
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