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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659 |
No not at all, I just find it odd that you have an opinion and present said opinion as if it were fact on nearly every political, economic, and social issue that is discussed here on the fire.
Merely an observation. First - Who here doesn't present their political views in exactly that manner? Second - You're right, but I believe in my convictions; is that so bad? As you can tell, I�m a very different kind of guy and I don�t see things the way Republicans or Democrats see them. Often I don�t see things in the middle of the two either, but I see them in ways that neither side are talking about. So I talk about the way I see things and that conflicts on both sides of the isle, so I tend to rub people the wrong way in issues of politics.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,634
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2007
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Did you actually read the link? It laid out Bush vs Obama point by point? You can read, right?
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'll give you a hint Walt. It isn't the EO's that are a problem. Everyone here realizes that they have been a tool for the Executive Branch to govern for long before any of us were around. However it is the intent to circumvent the checks and balances within our system and the effects those orders will have that are alarming.
Get it?
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659 |
You don't seem to understand that a fence can and does influence flow and causes smugglers to adapt.
While only a fool would believe it stops all flow along a border, it is impossible to dispute their effectiveness when combined with personnel.
Travis If we keep all the way it is and just add a fence, it will be a HUGE expenditure of dollars for next to no return. I�d be willing to talk fences after we fix a whole lot else. We first need to allow our border patrol to do their jobs to the best of their abilities. And quite honestly, until we have the political resolve to do that, I�m not willing to talk billions for a fence that will be useless. If the border patrol is set loose, I�d be up for a discussion of a fence. But any fence absent manpower to watch that fence line is just throwing more good money after bad.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659 |
I'll give you a hint Walt. It isn't the EO's that are a problem. Everyone here realizes that they have been a tool for the Executive Branch to govern for long before any of us were around. However it is the intent to circumvent the checks and balances within our system and the effects those orders will have that are alarming.
Get it? Ding, ding, ding; we have a winner, chicken dinner!!!
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076 |
Did you actually read the link? It laid out Bush vs Obama point by point? You can read, right? This isn't Bush vs. Obama. Once you get that through your head you might begin to understand what the problems are.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
I'll give you a hint Walt. It isn't the EO's that are a problem. Everyone here realizes that they have been a tool for the Executive Branch to govern for long before any of us were around. However it is the intent to circumvent the checks and balances within our system and the effects those orders will have that are alarming.
Get it? Ding, ding, ding; we have a winner, chicken dinner!!! LyingAssWalt can't and won't admit the truth. It's against every fiber of his being. Hell, even when he was in business, his ads were complete fabrications and overblown exaggeration.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,785
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,785 |
About the only question I need answering at this point is whether the guillotine needs to be set up closer to the White House or Capitol Hill.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659 |
Maybe 4ager knows this, he seems to know constitutional law pretty well; much better than I do.
Wasn�t the original intent of Executive Orders more to ensure that laws passed were enforced? Example, congress enacts a tax on whiskey. Whiskey makers say piss off and we�ll shoot the first SOB who tries to collect a tax. President Washington issues an executive order to call up troops, go kick arse and make the law stand.
Wasn�t that the real intent of executive orders? I�m betting you�ll know more.
But then going as far back as Lincoln (and I�m sure it started before him) with the Emancipation Proclamation an executive order just became law of the land without going through congress. And no, I�m not saying the slave shouldn�t have been freed, just that the process was circumvented and not done in the right way.
Love to hear 4agers thoughts.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659 |
About the only question I need answering at this point is whether the guillotine needs to be set up closer to the White House or Capitol Hill. Capitol Hill, I'll setup the hot dog stand 
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
Sans fence, how do you insure a secure border? The same way we have for the past 100 years, you let the Border Patrol do their freaking jobs, and you back them like we back our soldiers. I hope not! Our soldiers are under rules of engagement that tie their hands so much it it killing them. 
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,082
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Let's abdicate the stupid treaty and put troops on the border. Team them up with border patrol agents.
Stupidity is expensive
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,785
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,785 |
Let Texas and Arizona handle it. One hundred Rinches could shut down the border tighter than a drum except for the occasional flare up.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659 |
Let's abdicate the stupid treaty and put troops on the border. Team them up with border patrol agents. While I agree with the sentiment, I don't like the idea of using soldiers for law enforcement jobs. Like in Fergusson, that's asking for trouble and that Governor will be lucky to get out of this with his azz intact. Soldiers are not trained for law enforcement, and I don't want to lose our combat effectiveness because we don't have the will to let cops be cops. We need to back the Border Patrol, let them arrest and deport...you know, their freakin job description. If we need more, then let's hire more for crying out loud.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,082
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2007
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Why not use MP's? How many more BP agents do we have to hire? Who's going to pay for them?
Soldiers aren't cops, I agree but I don't see this as so much a law enforcement mission as a security mission and soldiers have been standing security for forever.
Stupidity is expensive
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
I'd rather not start eroding posse comitatus to any degree. Institute a flat/fair tax, fire the IRS, redirect funds to BP. Problem solved.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,007
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,007 |
So Kevin, what exactly should our side compromise on? Well this is just me, and I'm sure you guys will flame the hell out me for not towing the right wing line, but I don't much care. Compromises from the right: We need a guest worker program, a realistic one so a head of lettuce doesn't cost $10. We need a way where employers with illegals can work with ICE to make their workers legal. They don't have to be citizens, but we can make them legal. It's completely unreasonable and logistically/financially impossible to deport 20 million illegal aliens; that's just a pipe dream of people who are pissed off (of which, I'm one of them, but I CAN be realistic). Republicans need to just drop that one no matter how pissed they are. The border fence is a dip-chit feel-good idea that is the maximum dollar expenditure for the least return. There are much better ways to secure the border�hell, just let the border patrol do their job; that alone will get you 9/10ths of the way there. There needs to be a path to citizenship, but it needs to be in a way that doesn't bump illegals ahead of those who have been trying to become a citizen LEGALLY. Stop welfare and medicaid, then require any illegal to get a job and spend X amount of years as a guest migrant worker before they're eligible for citizenship. Then require sponsorship from an employer/continuous employment for citizenship. It doesn't have to happen overnight (hell, how long they been here?), it can take a decade or more, but we need to work it out and get it done. This would be a good tit-for a secure our border tat. Compromises from the left: SECURE OUR FREAKING BORDER FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!! Let the border patrol do the their freaking jobs, and back them like we back out troops. Illegal immigrants who commit felonies need to be immediately deported; every damn one of them! Again, doesn't have to happen overnight, but it needs to happen. And Mexico can kiss our collective arses. At a very minimum, we need to suspend welfare and medicaid to illegal immigrants for 2-3 years while we create a migrant worker program with employer sponsorship. Personally I'd like to see it completely stopped, but I'd settle for a temporary suspension while we work chit out. My plan is this: You want to be a citizen - fine: Cost - $20,000 PER citizenship paid over 15 years - automatically taken from check Sign up and check in every 6 months with location, occupation, contact information, etc. Work and have your employer deduct the Citizenship fee ZERO felony convictions - one felony and you are out of the program and out of the country - must be CONVICTED felony and yes DUI counts So - work, contribute to the country, pay your way, and stay out of trouble in 10 years you are a full blown citizen. Done. I worked with a Canadian for year and it cost him almost $20K in lawyers, travel and forms to become an American citizen. You cannot just kick them out - they are FAR to deep in our economy - it would literally cripple the nation, NOR can you just forgive the CRIME they are committing by being here AGAINST THE LAW.
Last edited by Paradiddle; 11/19/14.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
When Obama issues the EO on the Illegals the Congressional Republican leadership should immediately tell the National Lawn Jockey that there will be no deal period on the budget resolution.
When the current spending legislation runs out the Government shuts down until the illegal Illegal Executive Order is rescinded.
Of course they won't do that because all of the Republican Congress Critters want to cultivate a Hispanic Bloc vote too and are afraid a shutdown will make them look bad in the mainstream press.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098 |
I find it odd that you feel the left should work to secure our border but in the same post you state a fence is a "dip schit feel good idea."
Travis Well that�s because we do need to secure our border, but the border fence is a dip-chit idea. Look where we have fences now, countless tunnels, cut fences, people going over the fence, under the fence. A fence keeps out the really brain dead�anyone more than room temperature can figure out now to circumvent the fence. It�s the biggest expenditure of money for the least return on our dollars. What do you want, symbolism or results? Sounds like you�re more interested in symbolism. I on the other hand would actually like to see money used in a productive fashion and end up with a secure border. What was it that Patton said??? "Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man" Something to that effect. Kevin, please tell Me where the immigration system is broken? And why it needs streamlining? If we would force welfare rats to take the same jobs "migrant workers" take, in order to receive their welfare money. Lettuce wouldn't be 10 dollars a head
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,082
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2007
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I don't think it violate posse comititatus. It's security not law enforcement. It's like guarding nuclear weapons. Only more important.
Yes! Fair/Flat tax. Reduce the IRS to 1/10th its current size. ABSOLUTELY!
Stupidity is expensive
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
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