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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076 |
I hate to repeat myself, but for you I will. You need to spend some time on the street. As hard as you may find it to believe, besides assault, theft, and all other forms of malfeasance, sometimes these people lie  ...even under duress. Hell, my daughters at two years old would say that had to go to the bathroom every time they got in trouble because they didn't want to sit in timeout or in there room ect...
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I hate to repeat myself, but for you I will. You need to spend some time on the street. As hard as you may find it to believe, besides assault, theft, and all other forms of malfeasance, sometimes these people lie ...even under duress. I understand what you are saying. No, I have no desire to spend some time on the street. However, for those that do, I believe there is an expectation that they prioritize the safety and well being of the public at large, even those they are subduing, especially in the context of a petty crime being committed and a non-violent resist to arrest. Had this guy had a gun or knife and was waving it around like a lunatic, OK, the knee to neck stays and he could be speaking in tongues for all I care - the expectation is he is going down and likely hard - a petty criminal selling cigarettes on the street in a non violent arrest? I dunno. I guess it boils down to - is everyone you encounter as a cop a threat? Did Garner die because he was perceived as a threat? Did his actions merit his pleas to be ignored?
Last edited by KFWA; 12/04/14.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,583 |
Oh, I get it art, but "homicide" as a stand alone is fodder for the masses, hence it goes to the locus of my opinion. I ain't losing sleep over this guy...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
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Fact is they didn't know if he had a gun or a knife, no way to know that. So you have to treat it like he does, in that case the safest thing is to subdue the suspect as quickly as possible and sort things out after that.
If he did have a gun or a knife, which they couldn't have known, his resisting 'non-violently' could have been a way to gain access to said weapon.
As to the question is every one a cop encounters a threat the answer is no. However every suspect, traffic stop, and interaction is a potential threat, and when someone starts resisting at that point it escalates to a threat.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I guess it boils down to - is everyone you encounter as a cop a threat? Did Garner die because he was perceived as a threat?
To be succinct. Yes. And Garner, having 31 priors, would be known to most cops in the area, and you could pretty well guess things aren't gonna go smooth for #32 Oh, and for his actions to negate his pleas...another Yes. When I do a ride-along with one of our K9 guys, what absolutely scares the schitt out of me the most is a basic traffic stop. If you did have a desire to spend time on the street, you'd understand why.
Last edited by ingwe; 12/04/14.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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were any of those 31 priors violent?
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I don't have his rap sheet handy...pardon me.
The world must look good through rose colored glasses.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2001
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were any of those 31 priors violent?
There was an assault, I believe. Also a drug arrest. Mostly misdemeanors. Not sure if there were convictions.
Carpe' Scrotum
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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just wondering if he had ever resisted arrest violently.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
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When someone resists arrest, you need to use what is necessary and reasonable to subdue them. Garner had been arrested many times. HE chose to resist arrest. Nobody could make the call what would happen once he chose that course. You end it as quickly as possible.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish! ![[Linked Image]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/EvilTwinMar/Sabretooth-1.jpg)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Carpe' Scrotum
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I hate to repeat myself, but for you I will. You need to spend some time on the street. As hard as you may find it to believe, besides assault, theft, and all other forms of malfeasance, sometimes these people lie ...even under duress. I understand what you are saying. No, I have no desire to spend some time on the street. However, for those that do, I believe there is an expectation that they prioritize the safety and well being of the public at large, even those they are subduing, especially in the context of a petty crime being committed and a non-violent resist to arrest. Had this guy had a gun or knife and was waving it around like a lunatic, OK, the knee to neck stays and he could be speaking in tongues for all I care - the expectation is he is going down and likely hard - a petty criminal selling cigarettes on the street in a non violent arrest? I dunno. I guess it boils down to - is everyone you encounter as a cop a threat? Did Garner die because he was perceived as a threat? Did his actions merit his pleas to be ignored? Garner died: 1) because he was morbidly obese with compounding health issues; 2) he resisted arrest, which resulted in severe physical exertion and some degree of restraint. Neither, alone, would have been enough at that time. Together, they led to a fatal encounter. Now, he could have lost weight and taken care of himself, or he could have not resisted arrest. Either would have negated the fatal outcome. Can even you follow that logic?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You'd figure with 31 priors, and life on the street, he knew exactly what was coming the second he decided NOT to comply.
What he didn't know was that his arteries were seconds away from terminal.
I wonder how many times in the previous 31 he kissed concrete and didn't infarct.
But then again, points moot.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You'd figure with 31 priors, and life on the street, he knew exactly what was coming the second he decided NOT to comply.
What he didn't know was that his arteries were seconds away from terminal.
I wonder how many times in the previous 31 he kissed concrete and didn't infarct.
But then again, points moot. I'd say its safe to say he knew what to expect when he pulled his arm away from the cop.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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what bothers me isn't the choke hold, its the man telling them he can't breathe - like 9 times? Exactly. That's the main thing here. Someone you're on top of says he can't breathe, the first thing a reasonable person does (who doesn't have malevolent intentions) is get off and see if he's for real, and if so, get him medical attention. You don't stay on top of him. Big deal if it turns out he was faking. If he was faking, and starts to try to fight again, you get back on him and get the cuffs on. You can't just assume that an arrestee is faking if he's saying he can't breathe, no matter how many times you think you've been faked out that way in the past.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
You might want to read previous posts...when you get up off them, is when they try to kill you.
Oh, and if you are a teacher..the word is 'breathe'.....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
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what bothers me isn't the choke hold, its the man telling them he can't breathe - like 9 times?
at what point do, you know, actually care that the guy might be in distress and its more important that he live than it is to keep your knee on his neck?
if there was video of me - not as a cop but as a man, lets say Garner was threatening me - not life threatening but general mouthing off and I made the decision to take him down, I had him subdued - and he told me 9 times he couldn't breathe - my ass would be in jail.
and throw in on top of it, there is a police policy against a choke hold or attempting to use a choke hold.
I think this cop needs to go to trial. I didn't think that about Wilson or George Zimmerman
also, I don't claim to be an expert on grand jury's but I can tell you that if you don't have a strong willed foreman on the jury or a group of people willing to confront authority, then they are mostly a rubber stamp for whatever the D.A. is pitching - innocent or guilty. What do you suppose was going over his vocal chords to create the sound of Garner saying he couldn't breathe? Unicorn farts?
Montana MOFO
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Unicorn farts act like helium.
It would have sounded like the Lollipop Guild.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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You might want to read previous posts...when you get up off them, is when they try to kill you.
Oh, and if you are a teacher..the word is 'breathe'..... I'm a spelling mavin compared to your average cop. 
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