Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Military The best infantry rifle

Ok military buffs, what gets your vote as the best military rifle and why?

Think of it this way�You�ll be going into combat tomorrow and you get to choose the weapon of your choice. Unfortunately, you don�t know where you�re going or what you�ll be doing, so your choice has to be versatile.

My vote goes to the Valmet M62/76 series in 7.62x39mm. The Valmet is the best quality AK ever made and the 7.63x39mm is still the military cartridge that all others are judged by.

It also gets my vote as the most homely (butt-ugly) rifle ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmet_M76

So, what say you?

I'll bite.

First a point of definition: I consider a rifle is a shoulder fired firearm with a barrel length of at least 18 inches. Super SBR's are long pistols not rifles!

Make mine the Mark 14 Mod 0 EBR, an updated M14, the longest serving rifle in US military history.

See: link

I carried one of the original models and fell in love with it. So what if it was heavier then the M16, the weight was worth the punch. And now that the M16 varients have all gone to heavier barrels the weight difference is even less.

And BTW, the 7.62 x 51mm NATO is the military rifle cartridge that all others are judged by. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

FN/FAL.

Heavy, yes, but accurate as helll, just that dependable, too... and 7.62x51. Not much to dislike there.

The M14 variant picked by Bend is RIGHT there, too.

That said, if it's going to be used/abused/ by CLOSE range infantry, the AK is tough to knock. It ain't accurate past a couple hundred meters, but just try to get one to puke.

The M-14!!
My time with the M-21 has me somewhat opinioned for the M-14 variants!

Those FN/FAL's are all too much the rifle you find unless it's a AK when in a country that gets all it's aid from the Evil-Empire or the "good-guys".

A para or congo-type FAL would be a nice "jump status" rifle!
I've broke eight M-16A1 and four M-16A2 during static-line jumps!
Mike

I would pick an FN/FAL first closely followed by the M-14. I reckon I am big enough to carry a little extra weight in exchange for some extra horsepower.

I'm wondering why everyone feels they need the extra horsepower, when every military organization has determined that the 7.62 NATO is needlessly overpowered?

I'd take a well made M16A2 but with the original 1 in 14" twist and original 55 grain FMJ at 3200 fps muzzle velocity.

That slow twist failed to meet accuracy requirements for Arctic shooting at 500 meters, but it's what gave "the black rifle" it's reputation for ghastly wounds in the first place. A marginally stable bullet in air that tumbles when it hits flesh.

BTW, if I was assigned to Arctic fighting thereafter, I'd just confine my shots to 499 yards or less. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Edited to add: I don't know if it's the best military rifle as no one has explicitly defined the criteria for "best", but it's what I'd take. That and as many rounds of ammo and as many hand grenades as I could carry.

GG-

"...when every military organization has determined that the 7.62 NATO is needlessly overpowered?"

The bean counters in the organizations have opted to go the "bud light" route not the troops.

I like my gun and my auto/truck to have enough power to do the job. You are the one that set the parameter of not knowing where we would be going. So, as one member on this board loves to say; "use enough gun."

Well, so far its several against 1 for the 7.62 NATO. Do you drive a Yugo. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

GG;

Grunts, like myself, ALWAYS want more horsepower.

Ask any grunt back from Iraq what the .223 does up close, and then ask why the .308 is preferred.

First choice:M14
second choice:M1 Garand
third choice: Lee Enfield

GG,
If you had ever had to fire a shot at a soldier who was trying to do the same to you,then you would know why 5.56mm is a poor subsitute to the 7.62NATO!
Damn for firing past 400meters! I'll be calling for 11C(mortarman)or arty "danger-close"!
For dug-in or bunkers we use to carry the M67 90mm recoilless-rifle.
Oh yea,forget about the US manufactured 7.62NATO!
Give me the German Ammo!
That kraut 7.62NATO uses mild-steel jacket bullets that break apart better than any 5.56mm!
Urban combat with barriers has the 7.62NATO hands down better than any 5.56mm load can produce!
Mike

You just said we're going into combat, but you didn't say who was backing us up. I think most folks would assume some sort of small-unit scenario (correctly or not) and not a combined arms melee with tanks, artillery, and A-10s in support. Being allowed that assumption, I'll say FAL as well, because overkill may just save my ass.

Overkill???? I hate the word!

When it comes to hostile enemies, is there any such thing as "too dead?" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The term "overkill" is used by someone who never has had someone try to inject him with rifle rounds!!
That old Bren or a BAR was perfect for chewing up "skinny's" in urban combat.
Then every rifleman had rounds for the rifles be it US(Garands)or Commonwealth(SMLE)and the Auto-gun had same ammo throughout.
Mike

Ya'll make good points, but I was never suggesting the .223, I was suggesting the 7.62x39... Now, maybe I've got my military history wrong or something, but I've never heard of it lacking in fight stopping power. I've treated 7.62x39mm wounds and I'm rather impressed...Most weren't in need of my services, but rather the services of the coroner.

The 7.62x39 is the only real assault rifle cartridge and it does exactly what it was intended to do. It stops a fight just as well as a 7.62 NATO and it recoils much less.

Every Valmet M62/76 I've handled would shoot circles around a FAL or M14 and do it in a lighter package with lighter ammunition.

The 7.62 NATO gives you about 200 yards more effective range, which is almost never needed. However, the 7.62x39mm is much lighter allowing you to carry more ammo...And that's needed very often. Personally, I'll take the extra ammunition.

The 7.62x39mm is a proven combat cartridge and has not been found wanting in any war.

The Valmet fires a cartridge that's a better combat cartridge. It's more accurate and more reliable than anything else...I'd be quite confident in my choice.

GG,
I have a scar on my right shoulder were I had a through and through from a 7.62X39 from October 1983.
Prefectly straight through,entered two inches from midline of my chest,exited through the ole "push-up muscle"(latisamis dorsi?).
In 1989 I took a single round in the left thigh (back to front) that missed femur and major blood lines but caused me to still limp from the "stretch cavity" that wreaked havoc on my quad! The rifle was a FAL that was recovered after the position took a 152mm round from a Sheridan! Go 3/73 82nd Airborne!
Thank the almighty for no 5.56mm to make it's way into me but the 7.62NATO was the fight stopper to me!

I concer that a M62 with its butt-ugly metal tube buttstock would be a damn sight better than any AK with it's improved sights and better gas system.
But the Finn's were using the premiss that they would have another "winter-war" and what better way to resupply ammo than take it from the dead commies body's!!
The M62 would be my first choice when loaded with Chinese type"PS" 7.62X39 ammo(mild steel jacket with iron-core)best AP available for the 7.62X39 anywhere!!
The 123grain .310 bullets are very stable and yield termendous penetration in soft tissue.
They seldom yaw(thank the almighty)or "break" at the canuler as is common with M193 and M855 ammo.
The German and Norwegion 7.62NATO has similar type results when they encounter large soft masses(thighs,pelvic girdle and lower bowels)they yaw and break at the crimp groove on the bullets.The end result is a wound that is horrific but stops the target quite well!
Mike

Sapper,

You sir are a lucky man to be walking this earth. Literally every last 7.62.39 wound I've treated or wittnessed showed signs of bullet yaw. Contrary to your opinion, the M43 does yaw and will do so quite predictably, but it doesn't yaw nearly as quick as the .223 or 5.45.39. According to US Army studdies, the M43 tends to yaw after an average of 6 inches of penetration, or if bone is struck. With your upper chest wound, you are a truely lucky man...Glad you're hear to disagree with me... And thank you for your service.

I have to put in another vote for the venerable FN FAL... They simply got it right with that rifle!! It is my favorite in my safe.

Thanks also to all of you who have served!!

Kevin,
My luck is that I sustained a hit that moved through chest-wall hitting no rib and not nicking/penetrating my lung and then exiting out my back just past my underarm!
I got pressure dressing's and kept firing.
When I was hit in my leg,different story all together!!
The round displaced/had torn-away muscle from my quad in my thigh when it exited.
No bone hit but it dropped me and took the fight out of me right now!
It was all I could do to kick and squirm to get to cover!
I went into shock while doc(spec-4 medic)tried to stop the bleeding.While I was getting worked on a Sheridan let loose with it's 152mm main gun and everyone cheered.
I woke up at Walter Reed one week later.
No major bones or blood vessels were hit but the bullet "became unstable" when it encountered the large muscle mass(I was back then 6'2"/265lbs with a 9% body-fat) and either tumbled or broke apart is what was explained to me as I started physical therapy to get use back of my leg.
Seventeen years this December and I still favor that leg.
Would I do it again?
Hell Yes!!!!!!!
I've shaken hands with Ronald Reagan(1983) and George Bush(1990) as they came to Walter-Reed to see troops that were injured in service to this country!!!
That is also why at 42-years old I'm retired already. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I donate my time over at the VA with the "Wounded-Warriors" program.
Talking with and helping however with the young guys coming home with injuries that they will carry for the rest of their days so we all stay safe.
Mike
12B3V 11B2V

M-4 if I left today - I know how it works. With logistics and train-up, a 16 variant would be my LAST choice. M-14/FAL would be first. Sapper's last post pretty well lays out why.


Okie John