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Joined: Jul 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
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The MOAR reticle is too fine and no one that I am around that has used both prefers it over the standard mil dot for hunting.
If you're getting a NF then get a reticle that offers something for wind. The IHR shouldn't even rate a consideration. I all but hate a standard Mil dot, but it is the best choice for hunting in a compact NF.
S&B makes nothing comparable to the 2.5-10x. NF, and the 42mm has excellent glass. Glass quality is almost purely subjective and has much more to do with personal bias than anything else. Manufacturers KNOW the exact properties of their glass. In any case it's a silly reason to choose a scope, and is generally the purview of amateurs.
S&B's are not what they were with regards to durability and reliability, and are not the "best". There are a whole bunch of military shooters not using their 4k issued S&B's. Despite what some think- zero retention and reliability matter. BS....you think you know a lot more than you really do. One of my best friends is a Special Forces Sniper Instructor who has been deployed all over the world. His go to scope on his work rifle is a 4-16X50 S&B PMII. I run the same scope on my work rifle, and have for the past six years,(three barrels)without any POI change through all kinds of climatic conditions, from 40*F below to 110*F. And as far as glass quality not making a difference, I disagree completely, the better you can see, the better you can shoot....anyone knows that. Would you rather have 20-15 vision, or 20-20 vision? But Pat, since we're talking pros and amateurs here, can you turn a mundane elk hunt for a raghorn into an episode of Survivor? The pro's can. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
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The MOAR reticle is too fine and no one that I am around that has used both prefers it over the standard mil dot for hunting.
If you're getting a NF then get a reticle that offers something for wind. The IHR shouldn't even rate a consideration. I all but hate a standard Mil dot, but it is the best choice for hunting in a compact NF.
S&B makes nothing comparable to the 2.5-10x. NF, and the 42mm has excellent glass. Glass quality is almost purely subjective and has much more to do with personal bias than anything else. Manufacturers KNOW the exact properties of their glass. In any case it's a silly reason to choose a scope, and is generally the purview of amateurs.
S&B's are not what they were with regards to durability and reliability, and are not the "best". There are a whole bunch of military shooters not using their 4k issued S&B's. Despite what some think- zero retention and reliability matter. BS....you think you know a lot more than you really do. One of my best friends is a Special Forces Sniper Instructor who has been deployed all over the world. His go to scope on his work rifle is a 4-16X50 S&B PMII. I run the same scope on my work rifle, and have for the past six years,(three barrels)without any POI change through all kinds of climatic conditions, from 40*F below to 110*F. And as far as glass quality not making a difference, I disagree completely, the better you can see, the better you can shoot....anyone knows that. Would you rather have 20-15 vision, or 20-20 vision? But Pat, since we're talking pros and amateurs here, can you turn a mundane elk hunt for a raghorn into an episode of Survivor? The pro's can. LMAO.....  !.....and on the money! On one hand, we have a proven commodity. Mr. scenarshooter has been there, done that, in his modest unassuming way so many times I can't even remember. The guy just flat out knows what works, uses it, and has been kickingasss in the field for years and years. The other dude...well, his egomaniacal, regurgitated schtick has gotten old, fast. He is his own biggest fan.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
S&B's are not what they were with regards to durability and reliability, and are not the "best". There are a whole bunch of military shooters not using their 4k issued S&B's. Despite what some think- zero retention and reliability matter.
I sat in a room years ago and observed an exchange between a USMC Scout Sniper (who's had a History Channel program done about him) and the former NCOIC of 5th SFG's Sniper School discuss S&B scopes. "Schidt and Bend-Overs" as the marine referred to them. The SF guy laughed. Every one of the initial buy scopes had to be returned because they wouldn't track and hold a zero.
Last edited by 4321; 12/14/14.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Much like Pat I've used the 4-16 on a work rifle many years. Removed animals off cut corn field 2 hours before shooting light.
Never had a issue don't know anybody that has. I heard my wife's step uncle had a illegitimate child that was a scout sniper. He thought they sucked.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Much like Pat I've used the 4-16 on a work rifle many years. Removed animals off cut corn field 2 hours before shooting light.
Never had a issue don't know anybody that has. I heard my wife's step uncle had a illegitimate child that was a scout sniper. He thought they sucked. You probably know a lot about sucking. IOW, you have a personal rifle that you've babied, and really don't know if the damn thing will track 'cause you ain't checked it in years, if ever. Got it.
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Laughing I'll show you mine if you show me yours! 
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Every one of the initial buy scopes had to be returned because they wouldn't track and hold a zero.
Yes, I'm quoting myself. Here is the perfect chance for one of you fat bastids who can't stand me to prove me wrong. Takers?
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854 |
As a general hunting scope for open country, which reticle? They all look foreign to me so advice is appreciated Not up with all the new NF reticles. I have wanted a 2-10x42 and have even had one in the shopping cart....but just can't pull the trigger on a scope costing that much and weighing 20 ozs for a hunting rifle. I'd be afraid of myself if I ever crossed that threshold.
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197 |
S&B's are not what they were with regards to durability and reliability, and are not the "best". There are a whole bunch of military shooters not using their 4k issued S&B's. Despite what some think- zero retention and reliability matter.
I sat in a room years ago and observed an exchange between a USMC Scout Sniper (who's had a History Channel program done about him) and the former NCOIC of 5th SFG's Sniper School discuss S&B scopes. "Schidt and Bend-Overs" as the marine referred to them. The SF guy laughed. Every one of the initial buy scopes had to be returned because they wouldn't track and hold a zero. What were you doing in that room, busing tables, or sweeping the floor?
Luck....is the residue of design... ![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/96zvyt.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
S&B's are not what they were with regards to durability and reliability, and are not the "best". There are a whole bunch of military shooters not using their 4k issued S&B's. Despite what some think- zero retention and reliability matter.
I sat in a room years ago and observed an exchange between a USMC Scout Sniper (who's had a History Channel program done about him) and the former NCOIC of 5th SFG's Sniper School discuss S&B scopes. "Schidt and Bend-Overs" as the marine referred to them. The SF guy laughed. Every one of the initial buy scopes had to be returned because they wouldn't track and hold a zero. What were you doing in that room, busing tables, or sweeping the floor? Listening and learning. You should give it a whirl. It might expand your horizons, like maybe learning the difference between a sling and a carry strap, like that schidt carry-strap you peddle off as a sling.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,628
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,628 |
Why don't you and Pat compare photo albums. 4-3-2-1 - crickets.
WWP53D
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,129
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,129 |
The MOAR reticle is too fine and no one that I am around that has used both prefers it over the standard mil dot for hunting.
If you're getting a NF then get a reticle that offers something for wind. The IHR shouldn't even rate a consideration. I all but hate a standard Mil dot, but it is the best choice for hunting in a compact NF.
S&B makes nothing comparable to the 2.5-10x. NF, and the 42mm has excellent glass. Glass quality is almost purely subjective and has much more to do with personal bias than anything else. Manufacturers KNOW the exact properties of their glass. In any case it's a silly reason to choose a scope, and is generally the purview of amateurs.
S&B's are not what they were with regards to durability and reliability, and are not the "best". There are a whole bunch of military shooters not using their 4k issued S&B's. Despite what some think- zero retention and reliability matter. BS....you think you know a lot more than you really do. One of my best friends is a Special Forces Sniper Instructor who has been deployed all over the world. His go to scope on his work rifle is a 4-16X50 S&B PMII. I run the same scope on my work rifle, and have for the past six years,(three barrels)without any POI change through all kinds of climatic conditions, from 40*F below to 110*F. And as far as glass quality not making a difference, I disagree completely, the better you can see, the better you can shoot....anyone knows that. Would you rather have 20-15 vision, or 20-20 vision? But Pat, since we're talking pros and amateurs here, can you turn a mundane elk hunt for a raghorn into an episode of Survivor? The pro's can. LMAO..... !.....and on the money! On one hand, we have a proven commodity. Mr. scenarshooter has been there, done that, in his modest unassuming way so many times I can't even remember. The guy just flat out knows what works, uses it, and has been kickingasss in the field for years and years. The other dude...well, his egomaniacal, regurgitated schtick has gotten old, fast. He is his own biggest fan. Anyone that loads 185 Juggernauts to 2920 fps in a .308 has to be knowledgeable........right? 
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070
Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Not up with all the new NF reticles. I have wanted a 2-10x42 and have even had one in the shopping cart....but just can't pull the trigger on a scope costing that much and weighing 20 ozs for a hunting rifle.
I'd be afraid of myself if I ever crossed that threshold.
Give it a try, you want regret it, and they are not as expensive as it first seems. $1350 MOAR link It is not uncommon to have the MILR for $1350 as well.
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854 |
Not up with all the new NF reticles. I have wanted a 2-10x42 and have even had one in the shopping cart....but just can't pull the trigger on a scope costing that much and weighing 20 ozs for a hunting rifle.
I'd be afraid of myself if I ever crossed that threshold.
Give it a try, you want regret it, and they are not as expensive as it first seems. $1350 MOAR link It is not uncommon to have the MILR for $1350 as well. Freakin' enabler. Eurooptic is actually where I had one in the cart...haha.
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2011
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Eurooptic will take a return as long as it hasn't been mounted. Give one a gaze and send it back if you don't like it. I know how that will turn out. Eurooptic Return Policy
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,273 |
Why don't you and Pat compare photo albums. 4-3-2-1 - crickets. It's impressive and also sad how one person can be such a clueless dork. Tanner
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Every one of the initial buy scopes had to be returned because they wouldn't track and hold a zero.
Yes, I'm quoting myself. Here is the perfect chance for one of you fat bastids who can't stand me to prove me wrong. Takers? Bueller?
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854 |
Every one of the initial buy scopes had to be returned because they wouldn't track and hold a zero.
Yes, I'm quoting myself. Here is the perfect chance for one of you fat bastids who can't stand me to prove me wrong. Takers? Bueller? psycho?
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,628
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,628 |
Why don't you and Pat compare photo albums. 4-3-2-1 - crickets. It's impressive and also sad how one person can be such a clueless dork. Tanner Yep.
WWP53D
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,129
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,129 |
Who is this 4321 clown....
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