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The "size" of the reticle never changes with a FFP system Rich. You can keep the quarter though.


The bet wasn't whether someone would respond, but that most here have not used a FFP scope. I'll take your quarter, though.


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FFP for big game hunting.
SFP for target work.
SFP is and always has been inferior to FFP for big game hunting.

dave


Based on the number of users or game killed or what?


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The Scope in question...bushnell lrhs 3-12.

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Originally Posted by WYcoyote
I personally want my reticle to be big and bold on low power in the black timber and thinner at long range on my hunting rifles.
I'm not in the military, competition, or training.
SFP works best for me.
flashdot can be seen on any power

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I have so pay up....... grin

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Originally Posted by RDFinn
No offense Dave, but you are stating an opinion as was I. If you select a bold enough reticle for low light, than the "growing" reticle offers no real advantage, IMO. To be clear, I'm talking about ranges where we're "holding on hair" or where sub-tensions aren't needed do to distance, say under 300 yrds with flat shooting rounds.
FFP withe right illumination system can be seen on any power day or night rather easily and precisely

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Agreed. I know where Dave is coming from and I respect his opinions.

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I have used both and just can't afford FFP or see a big enough diffrence to get to excited about if I were hunting people that might be diffrent. I only shot about ten thousand rounds this year so I might be behind

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I use both heavily. Dedicated LR guns get FFP scopes almost exclusively. The value with FFP is that the reticle subtentions are correct no matter what power it is on. [/quote]

I can see this feature being of value for ones that are using 20+ power scopes so one can dial down to say 10 power to reduce mirage and such.

For someone such as myself who uses nothing over 10 power out to 1000 yds I see it as being of no value.

For shots out to 300 yds I use the lowest power setting of 2 or 3 because I prefer field of view not to mention my longer range rifles are sighted at 200 yds so dead on hold to 250 works and if ranged at 300 just hold 6"

Anything beyond 300 the scope is turned up to 10 power and the turret math is taped to the stock.

Pretty phugging simple if you ask me.

Shod



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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Originally Posted by cumminscowboy


Sometimes I think there needs to be a dose of reality.



Yes. It's called skill, knowledge, and experience. Of which you constantly seem to want to show that you lack.


This is easy- have you used the scope and reticle in question? Have you done what you constantly smack talk in competition, military or training?



It is not personal, however, no one should care about shooting at coyotes when you consistently show a lack of basic understanding of some pretty simple concepts in equipment ability.



notice I did not say all FFP scopes suck I just said in a hunting application I personally think they do. I use the video to show and explain why, form did you even bother to watch? FFP does work in certain scopes but not in the type that would make a good long range hunting scope. FFP does have some very distinct disadvantages, I am simply pointing them out.


form, why are you taking this as an attack on you and thus attack me and what kind of hunting you THINK I do. Yes one of my hobbies is long range coyote hunting. its a demanding target because its much smaller than a big game animal. It also gives me the chance to hone my craft all winter, not just during that big game season. One trip out to montana and you think your an expert long range hunter, don't you live back east or something? instead of taking this personal and taking shots at me. why not look at the substance and merits of what I am saying instead of backing into your corner and saying. I shoot all types of scopes daily and you only shoot coyotes. I don't post pics of what I shoot here, WHY because to me its kinda weird. I liken it to bragging or needing acceptance from others. I don't brag about my exploits and I don't care if people think I am some kind of magic hunter or not.

Last edited by cumminscowboy; 12/29/14.
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I use all 3 types (FFP,SFP & Fixed)in hunting applications and never had a problem with any of them doing the job...

I have experienced hunters using SFP scopes with BDC/Hash Mark reticles miss shots due to having their scope set on incorrect power settings which would not have occurred if their optic was FFP... Four just this year as a matter of fact... Ziess Z800, Leupy with LRD, Leupy with B&C and a NF with MV... I understand that these scopes aren't offered with these reticles in the FFP but if one chooses to use these HSLD reticles then one should also know how they work... Same goes with dialing for elevation... A guy needs to know where his turret is before he squeezes off... That happened this year as well... Hunter dialed for a 460 yd shot, shot didn't happen, closed the distance and missed a buck twice at 80 yds as his turret was still on 460 yd dope...

I've used the scope in the video quite a bit and at no power setting had a problem distinguishing my aiming point on the reticle including 3x... My FFP NF F1 at 3.5x I can still see my hash marks if I desired to do so, but on that power I don't see why a guy would need to see his 8 mil hash mark to make a shot...

Its all a personal choice for what a guy likes and chooses to use... IMO the FFP does have its advantages over a SFP in some hunting situations but either will work fine as long as the operator doesn't attempt something out of his pay grade...

YMMV...

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Originally Posted by elkhuntinguide
I use all 3 types (FFP,SFP & Fixed)in hunting applications and never had a problem with any of them doing the job...

I have experienced hunters using SFP scopes with BDC/Hash Mark reticles miss shots due to having their scope set on incorrect power settings which would not have occurred if their optic was FFP... Four just this year as a matter of fact... Ziess Z800, Leupy with LRD, Leupy with B&C and a NF with MV... I understand that these scopes aren't offered with these reticles in the FFP but if one chooses to use these HSLD reticles then one should also know how they work... Same goes with dialing for elevation... A guy needs to know where his turret is before he squeezes off... That happened this year as well... Hunter dialed for a 460 yd shot, shot didn't happen, closed the distance and missed a buck twice at 80 yds as his turret was still on 460 yd dope...

I've used the scope in the video quite a bit and at no power setting had a problem distinguishing my aiming point on the reticle including 3x... My FFP NF F1 at 3.5x I can still see my hash marks if I desired to do so, but on that power I don't see why a guy would need to see his 8 mil hash mark to make a shot...

Its all a personal choice for what a guy likes and chooses to use... IMO the FFP does have its advantages over a SFP in some hunting situations but either will work fine as long as the operator doesn't attempt something out of his pay grade...

YMMV...


Good post. You would think guys dropping coin for hunts would pay more attention to this stuff.




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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Good post. You would think guys dropping coin for hunts would pay more attention to this stuff.


Thanks Bob and I agree 110%...

Sad thing is, every year more and more guys show up, with their $6500 rifle, $3000 optic, Dope chart taped to the stock and think they are gonna run out and hammer stuff at 800 yds because they paid for the equipment to do it...Hell, they watched the video and the snakeoil salesman told them it'd do it... Most don't put in the time at the range, or prepare for the hunt to allow the stamina to stalk an animal... They show up in their new Kenetrek's ready to shoot long range without the ability to do so...

I love to see guys show up with their ?2.5-12? optic, duplex reticle, capped turret scope sighted in at 300 yds... Raggedy ole boots from miles of walking and ready to hunt... They are at PBR from 0 out to 350 or so and if its further than that we can creep in and get stuff killed... Those days are gone...

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A German praising a Japanese scope.....hilarous.

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Nearly all my variable scopes are FFP and are mostly used for hunting...

I have a S&B PM11 and a Falcon Menace with Mil dots, but three or four other FFP variables with the German No4 (or variations there of)and I find all, except maybe the Falcon, excellent in the deep woods and at last light..

Currently, I only have one cheapo SFP scope that is on an air rifle, and only because I can't get a FFP scope at the appropriate price point...

If you simply don't like or don't get, FFP scopes, fine, pay your money and use a SFP..

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Originally Posted by elkhuntinguide
I love to see guys show up with their ?2.5-12? optic, duplex reticle, capped turret scope sighted in at 300 yds... Raggedy ole boots from miles of walking and ready to hunt... They are at PBR from 0 out to 350 or so and if its further than that we can creep in and get stuff killed... Those days are gone...


So what about my Zeiss 2.5-10 x42mm with German No4 with capped turrets? No good because its a FFP or because its not a $200 cheap Chinese optic?

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I'm certainly not getting rid of my Kahles 1.5-6x42 FFP anytime to quick.

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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy

notice I did not say all FFP scopes suck I just said in a hunting application I personally think they do. I use the video to show and explain why, form did you even bother to watch? FFP does work in certain scopes but not in the type that would make a good long range hunting scope. FFP does have some very distinct disadvantages, I am simply pointing them out.


I don't know about you, but I use FFP scopes for hunting. I have some decent SFP scopes that are maybe better for good light conditions and longer range, but that's only because they are higher magnification scopes. My 2.5-10 FFP is a much better low light scope and handles range much, much better in low light than any SFP scope I own.

You might want to spend some time behind a 1.5-6x42 Euro scope in FFP before you tell the world they suck for hunting scopes. 500-600 yards is easy enough for them and the game that gets shot outside that distance is a pretty tiny percentage of what hunters kill every year. As light fades and distance grows that reticle becomes ever more important. FFP reticles designed for low light and optics to handle low light are what those 1.5-6x42s are designed to be used for, by people who have a pretty good idea of what they're about.

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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy

Sometimes I think there needs to be a dose of reality. There is a ton of group think and pack mentality out there with people thinking the scope must be FFP. FFP has distinct disadvantages. Flame suit on,



Thou doth protest too much.


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One other point about SFP's scopes I have used that I have noticed is that in certain light conditions, the reticules tend to "silver out"??

I have no idea if this is common to all types of SFP or whether its an issue particular to the construction/ type of reticule used in the bottom/medium end SFP I was using?



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