Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Using the Duplex reticle for hold over/under

I have done something for a long time and thought there may be some folks how do not realize this or might want to try it for themselves. <P>I use several scopes on my 30/06. The current scope mounted on this rifle is a 3.5-10 VariXIII Leupold. I am shooting 165 grain bullets at just under 2900fps. With a 240 yard zero I am 3" high exactly at 100 yards. Why not make it zero'd for 250? Nice round number that way right? Not exactly. <P>The duplex reticle has a 3" span from cross hair intersection to the point of the upper duplex section at 100 yards(at ten power). So using the point of the upper duplex at 100 yards as the aimpoint eliminates any hold over. Hitting a target the size of a 25 cent piece is easy. Had I zero'd for 250 yards I would be about 1/2 inch high at 100 yards with the same point of aim. Now shooting smaller game like coyotes or head shooting grouse is much easier at 100 yards<P>I have a computer print out for the trajectory data laminated to my rifle stock. It shows the rise and fall of the bullet from 50- 500 yards. Since my cross hairs are 3" at 100 yards they will be 6" at 200 yards and 9" at 300 yards 12" at 400 yards etc. for the same span between the crosshairs and the duplex section. Try it for yourself but I will tell you now it works perfect. When I lazer range a target and it says 250 yards I use the crosshairs spot on. If I range something that says 300 yards I look and see that I am 5" low on the printout so I know my span is 9" at that range using the duplex reticle. Easy to split the difference and be exactly on the money. When I see 350 yards My drop is about 12"(11.2exactly) and amazingly my span is about the same so using the lower duplex point puts me dead center at 350 yards. <P>We were doing this with water filled gallon milk jugs out to 400 yards and using this method of ranging the target and using the upper duplex point, the crosshairs, or the lower duplex point for the furthest shots works 100% of the time, every time. <P>You still have wind to deal with but the range is not an issue to determine hold over. By going point to point on the duplex you will have 6" at 100 yards, or 15" at 250 yards. Think about the diameter of a deer or antelope chest, how deep is it? You can actually see approx how far game is by using a known measure( your crosshairs) to tell if your way out of range or closer then you think. If there is light above and below the crosshairs he is well within range. If your only covering the center of the chest he might be a bit outside your comfort zone? <P>Make some known measurements and look through your scope to see for yourself. It can be a very valuable tool not just for seeing your target but for measuring how far it is as well! jj

JJ,<P>I used to use reticle subtention,quite a bit. It can work and well. I've gone a different route on most all my rifles,using an elevation turret. It is just as fast and much more precise.<P>The most common means of reticle subtention,that I use now,is with the mildot reticle. It allows more flexibility,than the duplex reticle,though the principles are the same. I find it a HUGE aid in dealing with wind. <P>A fixed power 6x42mm Leupold with the mil reticle,is an amazingly flexible device.........

I've used both the duplex and the Mil-Dot for a while. The only real draw back to the Mil-Dot is it doesn't show up as well in poor light as well as the duplex. But it can be very fast, helps alot on moving targets, and is very flexible. BTW, the duplex reticule can also be used to compensate for wind drift as well as hold over/under. With a LRF, they work even better. The idea of having a target elevation knob on a hunting scope is really nice. I like the precision it allows for zeroing. What's more, it make switching from varmit loads/zeros to big game loads/zeros much easier. E

This is a bit off topic of big game, however, I've used the Duplex reticle in my Leupold 3-9x33 EFR on my Kimber 82C LE in .22 LR to really antagonize the crows on the farm. Did'nt develop a drop chart soo much as watched for impact on a dry disced field and compensated for elevation. Windage is far trickier at extended range with a .22LR, thus, I only bring it out when its calm.<P> I won't mention actual yardages, however, I have a few kills with the lowly Federal Match Target 40 grainer at substantial range. Obviously would'nt extend that to a game animal, but for vermin with a soft field and proper back stop it can be alot of fun. <P>Best, Matt.

BS; you're right on the money with that elevation turret. I could line up targets with the weak and under powered 30/06 and knock them out all day, when my buddies with 300 weatherbys or more were all over the place. Knowing the exact distance and adjusting that knob was a killer idea. <P>I did have the rifle slide against the side rail of the boat one day and then to the barnacle covered rocks along side the boat. It crushed the long over sized knob for my elevation adjustment. <P>My fault entirely, should have never leaned the rifle there and then "rocked the boat getting in. That was also one of several no charge Leupold repairs to a scope of mine over the years. <P>It did spook me from going back to it on my Mountain rifle only because it sees a lot of hard use. I truely miss that feature though. I wish there was a low profile knob which could replace the factory cap. <P>I tried an aftermarket knob but it's construction integrity did not impress me. so it sits here on the shelf. I will probabaly use it on a .22 rimfire rifle scope. <P>With a lazer, and that elevation adjustment shots with a solid rest can be made as far as you can see, if you have the skill to make the shot. Those two additions to your equipment remove much of the distance shooting issues you will ever come up against except for windage.jj

JJ, you and Big Stick are 100% correct about that elevation turret. I found religion so to speak in Alaska with Big Stick and that elevation turret. Shooting rifles/scopes without that elevation turret will never be the same. It makes so much sense and works so well I don't know why they aren't more of a standard issue feature on more scopes. I made some very long shots on rocks while there. If I posted the distances everyone except those that have used the turrets would call bs. However I got a very dead bear in the freezeer that will tell you he wasn't far enough away for that turret. It was extreme range (first shot 344 yards, second shot 360+yards) but further than I usually shoot. The second shot I might add was a running shot. He would of been dead from the first shot through the lungs, but until what I'm shooting at is down I'm shooting. Anyway that turret totally changed my whole opinion of what a rifle's full potential can be. Seeing this post about them get's me all fired up and excited about how easy long range shooting was. I'll be doing a little more of it hopefully a week from Friday with Flinch down in Utah.

Just a fast footnote. When you spin up your elevation turret, does everybody know that you should go past your new setting, then come back down ? This is done to make sure your adjustment spring has followed your changes. Even on the very relible, dual spring scopes, like the Leopold Mk. 4's, this is recommended to assure accurate settings. E

E,<P>I've read Dick Thomas' accounts on this and others in the know second it. To be honest,I've never fiddled with it,but I generally don't dial in huge amounts of elevation. Most my Hunting rifles are at the limits of their retained energy,by the time you put in 15-20 minutes and that will get you past 1000yds.<P>On my less intense target rounds(223/223Ackley,308,7-08,etc)more is required,but I still have never had a problem getting my scope to do,what I ask of it. <P>I'd like to spend a couple calm days at the range and experiment with this topic. I'm sure I'd learn something,that I've been missing.........

I hate to edit and add to a post,so I'll just post again.<P>Foremost in my mind,in regards to dialing in HUGE amounts of elevation and especially on the MK4,is Tubb's video "The One-Mile Shot". On it,he takes a 6.5-284 and dials in enough elevation to repeatedly strike the target at 1 MILE. The video documented ALL elevation corrections,from his initial zero to the mile shot. I think he tossed in 112minutes,if memory serves me correctly. He simply dialed it in and never went past,to return to an intended zero. Certainly a fascinating piece of footage,from the GURU.........

I use a similar method and set my 100 yard zero between 2-3" above the bull determined by the duplex causing a spot on hit at an even 100 yard figure (either 400 or 500 depending on the scope and the distance from the crosshairs and the duplex type). On my 300 Win. the duplex gives me a dead on hit at 400 yards while the duplex placed on the backbone of a deer will drop the bullet into the vitals at 500 yards. This has all been range confirmed. Inside my butler creek scope caps are the x (power) that brackets a deer at 400 and 500 yards. That simple duplex is now a rangefinder and an aimpoint device in a simple uncluttered reticle.<P>The best long range reticle that I have used is on a Kassner sniper scope I have. It has very low profile click adjustments on both the windage and elevation turrets and a numbered ladder system for a reticle. The numbers work better for me than trying to count the right dot in a scope. I just wish this same reticle/turret setup could be had in a Leupold scope instead of some relatively unknown brand. Maybe Premier Reticles has such options, I don't know. I used this scope to make my longest shot ever on a groundhog; 750 yards through the neck on the second shot. Since then I have missed many closer. [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]

This is a common practice among serious long range shooters. I have been doing this for over thirty years. If you have time, dial him in with your cheat sheet and hold dead on. If not you had better know your duplex reticles. With the duplex reticles on my primary 338-378 hunting rifle I can hit effectively out to over 800 yards using the posts. That is also about the effective limit of my rangefinder so that works out good. With the introduction now of some very good mil dot scopes long distance shooting is much easier. I have mil dot reticles set up on several hunting rifles. Over the past few years some very good mil dot scopes have been introduced that do a very good job. We were bursting gallon milk jugs full of water out to the 750 yard target on my range over the weekend. Had cows in the back pasture and couldn't stretch it out further. Mil dot scopes on a 338-378 or a 338 Lapua bring hunting into a new dimention for those who are not aware of that already. Long range shooting can be done effectively with a good rifle set up, lots of practice and dedication. And don't attempt it if you have not or are not willing to pay the price in time and money on the range. I have my own 1000 yard range at my gun shop and shoot thousands of rounds a year.

Always wondered how you get a buck or bull to not take a step while he is feeding at 600-800 yds. Is a salt block the preferred method of holding your game stationary? If he takes 1 step after you've broken the sear, is he missed or gut shot or do you care?<BR>To replay a message that I have learned on these forums (from JJ), there are 100 things that can happen when shooting game at longer ranges, and only one of them is good.<P>Or are waterfilled milk jugs the only game that should be shot at half a mile?

Bill in NE,,,<BR>Carefully buddy, those water filled jugs can be mighty dangerous when they are wounded and charge... but they make mighty fine eating!<P>I'm just kidding guys,,,,,