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Doesn�t matter what they purchase... Joe isn�t taught to �hit� anything with a sidearm, the powers that be want to see if he can send a proscribed amount of rounds down range in a generally safe direction.. All they want is to spend money left over or earmarked for weapons when they need to concern themselves with training and marksmanship on what they have, which ain�t going to happen.
When people face the possibility of freezing or starving there is little chance they are going to listen to unfounded claims of climate doomsday from a bunch of ultra-rich yacht sailing private jet-setting carbon-spewing hypocrite elites
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Campfire Outfitter
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I dont see DoD buying pistols without safeties. They bought the M-11, it has no safety. The M-11 has a hammer and a decocker which qualify. Only striker-fired pistols require an active safety. As for the top contender, my vote goes to S&W. They are the only manufacturer that can provide a qualifying pistol that also meets the USA-made requirements of the last couple protocols. Which US Handgun manufacturers still run a forge at the scale needed? S&W and Colt are the only ones I know for sure.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Campfire Ranger
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I dont see DoD buying pistols without safeties. They bought the M-11, it has no safety. The M-11 has a hammer and a decocker which qualify. Only striker-fired pistols require an active safety. As for the top contender, my vote goes to S&W. They are the only manufacturer that can provide a qualifying pistol that also meets the USA-made requirements of the last couple protocols. Which US Handgun manufacturers still run a forge at the scale needed? S&W and Colt are the only ones I know for sure. None of the latest designs are forged. Frames are typically plastic and slides are most often made from barstock. S&W may forge their M&P slides to cut down on machine time, I really don't know. Does the RFP state it must already be made in the US or it will be US made when awarded?
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"The older I get, the better I was"
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I dont see DoD buying pistols without safeties. They bought the M-11, it has no safety. Nor did the revolvers which the Air Force issued for decades. The primary advantage of an external safety, is if applied before holstering a pistol, a serviceman are less likely to accidentally shoot themselves in the leg. Which happens too often. A hundred or more times a year. Frankly, considering the miniscule amount of pistol training in the armed forces, a trigger disconnect pistol safety is a money saver.
Last edited by idahoguy101; 01/07/15.
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Campfire Ranger
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Colt doesn't have anything close to the requirements and they don't want a development gun, so they're not in the running.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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look for the winner to be the lowest bidder that employs union labor.
Sam......
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Colt doesn't have anything close to the requirements and they don't want a development gun, so they're not in the running. The last "new" gun that Colt developed was a dismal failure. Anyon remember their All American 2000 ? What a POS
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Ranger
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look for the winner to be the lowest bidder that employs union labor. It will be the lowest bidder that meets the minimum qualifications. When Beretta won the contract, there was nothing stipulating they had to be union. I recall in the late '80's the UAW was trying to organize Beretta and Beretta got in trouble for violations of the NLA. I never did find out if Beretta was ever organized and put under a union contract; I have no idea. But it wasn't a requirement. Still, they located in Maryland (tell me a fix wasn't in on that one...who in their right mind would put a manufacturing operation in Maryland???), and if you're in Maryland, what do you think will happen to your workforce.
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Campfire Ranger
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Colt doesn't have anything close to the requirements and they don't want a development gun, so they're not in the running. The last "new" gun that Colt developed was a dismal failure. Anyon remember their All American 2000 ? What a POS The problem wasn�t just the gun (which was a nightmare), but the fact that even if Colt had the best pistol in the world, they couldn�t sell a cup of water to a dying man in the desert.
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You know, now that I think about it, I think the All American 2000 is the only auto pistol that Colt has ever designed from the ground up. Everything else has been an outside design they have bought(primarily Browning or Astra). So when you think about that, that doesn't bode well for Colt's.
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Kevin,
I think the original design for the All American 2000 was from Reed Knight at Knights Armament with some design input from Eugene Stoner. I remember reading that when the gun first came out in one of the gun magazines.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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And the 320 has absolutely NO safety. The Glock and M&P trigger safeties are a joke, but at least they can claim to have one.
I own an M&P 40 with a thumb safety. They'll make just about any flavor anyone wants...
If you're fixin' to put a hole in something,
make it a hole to remember.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You know, now that I think about it, I think the All American 2000 is the only auto pistol that Colt has ever designed from the ground up. Everything else has been an outside design they have bought(primarily Browning or Astra). So when you think about that, that doesn't bode well for Colt's. Yep. That was my point. It was also planned to be one of the first "smart guns" by Colt. The only guns that Col Colt really designed were the Paterson & the Navy Model. Even the famed Walker Colt was a failure. Very few made, and they were prone to break. And he was already dead by the time the 1873 SAA came out.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Kevin,
I think the original design for the All American 2000 was from Reed Knight at Knights Armament with some design input from Eugene Stoner. I remember reading that when the gun first came out in one of the gun magazines. I know that Reed Knight had a hand in the design of the AA 2000. I don't recall whether Stoner did or not.
Last edited by chlinstructor; 01/08/15.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Regular
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look for the winner to be the lowest bidder that employs union labor. It will be the lowest bidder that meets the minimum qualifications. When Beretta won the contract, there was nothing stipulating they had to be union. I recall in the late '80's the UAW was trying to organize Beretta and Beretta got in trouble for violations of the NLA. I never did find out if Beretta was ever organized and put under a union contract; I have no idea. But it wasn't a requirement. Still, they located in Maryland (tell me a fix wasn't in on that one...who in their right mind would put a manufacturing operation in Maryland???), and if you're in Maryland, what do you think will happen to your workforce. Beretta is moving to Tennessee
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Where they will officially undergo a name change to "Beretty".
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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I hope that ^ will in fact be the case - I really like the Beretta M9A3. However, this recent link in Bearing Arms, posted Jan. 9, 2015 - also claims otherwise: 'REJECTED: Beretta M9A3 Will Not Be U.S. Army's New Pistol' > http://bearingarms.com/rejected-beretta-m9a3-will-u-s-armys-new-pistol-mhs-competition-goes-forward/ < This site claims: "Purely on technical merits the Detonixs STX is the apparent front runner."
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