Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Combination Guns and Drillings Why a Combination/Drilling?

I have been kind of fascinated with whole idea for a long time. Back when my 1st wife, Satan, and I were dating, she liked to go squirrel hunting. I offered to buy her a gun. She asked for a Savage in .410/22LR. I made the mistake of coming home with a 20 GA semi-auto. She never forgave me.

To this day, I'm trying to figure out what the lure of these 2-fers are. Few folks in my area have one. I mostly hunt turkey, deer, squirrel, and the occasional coyote. When I go out, I usually am carrying a single rifle or shotgun, and I am usually restricted by law as to what that can be.

As a for-instance, during turkey seasons, I have to have a shotgun bigger than 28 GA and shot size no larger than #4. During deer seasons, I can't have shot, only slug. I keep looking for a niche for 2-fer, but I am deuced if I can find one.

You guys are probably my best resource for asking the question: what makes a combination gun a good choice? What hunting situations? What game?

Good questions. And there are a lot of answers. Starting with utility. From the person wanting one gun thats extremely versatile that he can use for anything from big game to sporting clays with the same gun, balance, feel, triggers, etc. To the person who hunts multiple types of game at one time. Where I live, I'll spend a few hours in my tree stand hunting deer & hogs, then swing by some of the ponds on my lease and jump a few wood ducks, on the way back to the truck. Also slip in a 22 insert barrel and knock off a couple squirrels for lunch or eliminate a coyote before the turkeys hatch.. And then there's the aesthetics, quality, workmanship, accuracy, heirloom, investment, class, tradition, etc, etc. motives.. Not to mention they're cool and fun to own and shoot.. Unless you live in Indiana or a state that has game laws not compatible. Then you need to work on the state policy makers More on them at my website if you're interested in learning.

For predator calling they make a great rig. Many time predators can seem to appear out of nowhere trying to sneak in to the call or come charging in so fast that having a shotgun for close range and the rifle barrel for ones that hang up out a ways is very handy even to the point where many veteran predator callers carry both a rifle and shotgun, the combo gun or drilling solves the with only on gun to pack around.

Taken at 30 yards with the shotgun



120 yards with the rifle barrel



Anytime you over lap of fur or fowl seasons or situation of close in or longer range shots they work well.

shaman,

Here in Montana we aren't as restricted in hunting firearms we can carry afield as in some other states, and also unlike some other states, many seasons overlap. A combination gun works very well for taking whatever comes along, whether a blue grouse while elk hunting, or a deer jumped while pheasant hunting.

I've owned several drillings, but finally reduced them to my favorite, a 16x16/6.5x57R, with a .22 Magnum insert for the right-hand shotgun barrel, which shoots 40-grain hollow-points and solids to the same point of impact. With the insert installed, I'm ready for anything from big game to birds to rabbits and varmints, all with the same gun.

A friend who planned to use a drilling during spring turkey season did make the mistake of contacting the local game warden about whether it was legal, since in spring Montana turkeys can only be hunted with bows or shotguns, not rifles. (During part of the fall season rifles can be used.) The warden told him that would be OK, as long as he didn't carry any rifle ammo with him. In fact, as I recall the warden said, "If I run into you in the field, you better not have any rifle ammo on you."

The law, however, plainly states turkeys can be "taken with a shotgun not larger than 10 gauge," with no restrictions on projectiles. (Apparently we can use slugs.) There's NOTHING outlawing carrying rifle ammo when using a drilling, and in fact I often do in spring, because the black bear season overlaps the turkey season. The only way I can break the law is to shoot a turkey with the rifle barrel.

There are some nitwit Montana game wardens like that, who think they can interpret the regulations anyway they want, which usually means repressively. I intend to carry my drilling anyway, and if one of them makes a fuss, we'll see how his superiors "interpret" the regulations.

In Vermont the bear season used to open in April and the birds in the fall.

Grouse were the common bird in the forest around the camp.

A drilling is really cool. They are so neat that it's worth just carrying one for the pleasure. They also get game including deer in the fall.

Here in CT we could not carry a CF rifle in certain areas where there was good bird hunting such as pheasant.

A pump slug gun with sights will shoot birdshot very well.

Ithaca 37 12 ga takedown.

I think that an O/U combination gun can be useful if the rifle barrel will hold a zero. The catch being that inexpensive combination guns tend to suck in that regard. I've owned a bunch of Savage 24s, and think that the 22LR and 22Mag over 20 and .410 can be pretty good shooters, and the .22Mag/.410 is a light and handy "woods loafing" gun.

The best shooting CF combination guns that I've owned are a couple of Sauer BBF(?) that my Father bought in Germany back in the 1950s. One is in 16/8x57R and the other in 16/30-30. He bought my uncle who lived in the Eastern Townships of Quebec one of these in 16/303British. The worst shooting CF combination gun was a Baikal/EAA IZH-94 in 12/6.5x55.

Very interesting.

I'm primarily a bird hunter. Western Montana --ruffed and blue grouse. Drilling is a 16/16/8x57JRS. The later season coincides with deer and elk. I do a lot of walking. I carry rifle ammo just in case.
I've had several occasions in past years, hunting in central Montana with just a shotgun, that I wished I'd had the drilling with me--Coyotes.

This is with the rifle barrel of the drilling above, 1926 in 6.5x58R Sauer that was a total wreck when I bought it.

200 yards with 1x4x20 Leupold at 50 yards the scope is dead on with the shotgun barrels.



JP Sauer drilling in 7x57R at 100 yards with 1.5x scope and factory PPV 139gr



My Bernadelli in 5.6x50R is near Moa and puts the shotgun rigt on top of the rifle at forty yard. Quality Euro combos and drillings are well regulated.

When I was a kid it was common to hunt multiple forms of game when in the woods. Particularly as kids, our main goal was to bring home something for the pot....and we weren't too concerned about what it was.

We hunted squirrels and rabbits year round (with even an occasional armadillo when the mood struck us). Bullfrogs were always welcome and we added quail, ducks and doves when in season. Rarely we would run across a turkey even though the Game Department said they didn't exist in East Texas at the time (and therefore there was no season).

The only "problem" was that we had a pretty fair population of wild hogs and during deer season a buck would present himself. This meant that a .22 rifle was a bit light for hogs and downright illegal for deer.

Out solution was to hunt with a double shotgun loaded with a buckshot in one barrel and squirrel shot in the other. With this combination we were set for whatever game might appear. A morning's bag would often include 3 or 4 squirrels, a rabbit or two, a duck (flushed off the creek), a couple of bullfrogs......and, if luck was with us, a deer or hog.

We were happy until one of my cousin's showed up with a Savage 24 chambered for .30-30 over 12 Ga. I don't remember how he said he got it (probably in a complicated trade as we were all too broke to actually BUY a new gun), but this immediately became the envy of every boy in our area. It was "perfect" for our style of hunting. The .30-30 had more range than any buckshot load and was a much more sure killer than buckshot at any range on deer and hogs. The 12 Ga. was deadly on any small game encountered and great for close flushed turkeys....and the .30-30 barrel took care of those times a turkey was seen beyond sure squirrel shot range.

I don't often hunt like that anymore, but I still believe a combination rifle/shotgun is the "perfect" weapon for walking the woods taking "targets of opportunity" that come along. I haven't tried it but always thought such a set-up with a longer range rifle barrel (maybe a .308) and a scope sight mounted in the old Weaver side-swing mounts would be even better. With scope swung over the shotgun would be available and a quick flip of the scope would allow the rifle barrel to be used out to any range that might be presented.

A truly versatile gun for "versatile" hunting.

If you like Savage 24s, you will probably like the article that Marshall Stanton wrote about them in the tech notes section at his web site, www.beartoothbullets.com.

The mystique, versatility and because they are undoubtedly the pinnacle of firearms innovation.
Finding mine last year was like having a winning lottery ticket. A 30 year search but well worth the wait.

What other platform allows you to take dove at 40 yards and a deer at 150 with a simple flip of a lever.

Where I often hunt there are rabbits, hares, pigs and deer, and often quail and pigeons too. I found years ago that a combination was almost ideal, as you could roll fast-moving game close in with the shotgun, and reach the more distant ones with the rifle barrel.

After a few years I moved to a drilling, 16/16/7x57R, which works even better. It weighs 6lb bare and handles like a fine bird gun, and with a 1.5-6 scope which can be attached or removed in a moment, without loss of zero, I am equipped for anything.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I had a Savage model 24V 222/20 gauge. It was exceptionally accurate and held it's zero shot to shot as well as any bolt gun. I loved it as a calling gun. I ended up trading it back to the original owner when he made me a deal I couldn't turn down. I miss that gun.

My newest combination gun is a 16x16x222 Rimmed, a Franz Jaeger drilling. Like dan oz's drilling, mine handles like a bird gun as well. I'm really growing to like it.

[quote=erich]This is with the rifle barrel of the drilling above, 1926 in 6.5x58R Sauer that was a total wreck when I bought it.

200 yards with 1x4x20 Leupold at 50 yards the scope is dead on with the shotgun barrels.">>


I wonder if the 6.5X58R Sauer is one of those inherently accurate cartridges. I've had 3 of them and all were tack drivers, even when the bores weren't great. My wife's kerner 20 ga drilling has a rifle in that cal and it's still the most accurate drilling I've shot (and in 45 yrs with them, I've shot a lot of drillings). Always under an inch @ 100 with any load, using a 2.5x Hensoldt with a post reticle. And the bore is far from perfect.
BTW, interesting thread to see the reasons behind folks getting into drillings & combo guns. I sight my 22lr insert barrels to 25 yards as that's what I usually shoot small game with them. The 22 mags often at 50 yds.

I think the original reason a combination gun was a good choice was the restrictive gun laws in Europe, which made it difficult to own any firearm in the first place, and in many cases limited the number of firearms a person could own. Firearms were also expensive and ammunition was also regulated by law.

Those lucky enough to be able to hunt were likely to encounter several different game species on the same hunt. Having one gun that could do several jobs was highly desirable.

In the USA, we are lucky enough to be able to just have one if we want it.

I spent 25 years as a CO in Michigan. This question came up often in the shotgun-only zone for deer hunting, because Savage 24's with various caliber centerfire rifle barrels were encountered frequently in the hands of deer hunters.

.22 rimfire combos were legal because the squirrel and rabbit seasons ran concurrently with deer season and a rimfire was allowed for small game hunting.

A strict reading of the law would have supported the idea that a combination gun with a centerfire rifle barrel was illegal in the shotgun area. But we had a written enforcement policy that no arrest would be made if the hunter was not carrying centerfire rifle ammunition.

You might want to call the Montana Dept of Fish and Game and ask them if they have such a written policy. It would give you a basis of discussion for your next encounter with the warden.

I'll give a short answer to your question. Many years ago I shot my biggest NV mule deer ever while chuckar hunting. I used a Sauer/Daly 12ga/30-30 drilling I had gotten from an eye surgeon friend of ours for doing his gardening that summer...more than ample pay!.

We never made deer hunt only trips, as tags then were over-the-counter, and deer were plentiful. We hunted northern Washoe county 100 miles north of Reno, an area then full of chuckar, valley quail, sagehen, and BIG mulies. We took deer rifles along in the rig and always ended up filling our tags on various bird hunts. My dad was an avid dog man and lukewarm big game hunter.

That first drilling I worked for at age 13 was the needle in my arm. I've never been without a drilling since over the succeeding 54 years. Backstrap and blue grouse hold equal value around my house.



John with a fine-eating MT doe he took with my favorite drilling combination of 16/16/6.5X57R...sort of a "264 Roberts-Rimmed". That 1950's era Sauer is sure sweet handling! It is a combination of more modern steels put together by the older pre-war master craftsmen. The 4X Hensoldt is bright and clear, and the Shuler mounts go right back to zero every time.



My latest and most versatile drilling is a Simson 90 12/12/7X65R with a 1.5-6 Hensoldt in claws. It has a top rifle cocking slide and a top tang safety. It's a decent handling upland gun. I'm passing this tradition along to my grandson.



I got into chuckar while looking for deer two years ago. This is my 16/16/6.5X57R, similar to John's.


My old setter Cookie lives for this.

I got to meet Erich recently and handle that drilling. It's a great little hunting machine! I wish I owned it, and he had a better one.

This thread got me to thinking about one of my early mentors. He taught me how to trap muskrats, beaver, fox and raccoon. He always carried a Savage 24 22 Mag/20 gauge. He killed a lot of fur and a lot of meat from grouse to deer with that gun. I guess that's where I got my soft spot for combination guns. I remember desperately wanting one just like his when I was a kid. I've had some but not that particular combination. He has since passed on but I fondly recall those early days soaking up all the information he was sharing.