Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
So I take it your still using a cross cut saw instead of a more efficient chain saw?
No I use a Stihl 660 and a Husky 395 but I'm not afraid of my 30-06 or my unbraked .300 Win mag, if you can't handle a 180 out of a 30-06 you definitely couldn't handle a Win mag shooting 208's. I have big guns and big saws, I suppose they make some people a little tougher than others. Cry babies that have no calluses are the ones who are "afraid" of all things a damn 30-06. Ask your wife if you can have your balls back...
06 is about what most folks can handle recoil wise, at least it is the standard to compare too. Can't think of too many situations that I would feel over gunned. Perhaps varmints, not pleasant to shot all day long. It has so many bullet weights and is very flexible. If I were to have just one the 30-06 would be very high on the list.
Recoil never bothered me all that much, until I stated shooting more than a little. Even then not right away, then one day my finger didn't work. It is the rare person that is immune to the cumulative effect of recoil and it makes little difference if they have a pair of balls.
I have found with 06 and up about 10 shots off the bench, and then I am aware of the recoil. Much past that and I am thinking about recoil. Groups go down from there. Hunting it does not matter, I know the rifle fired, but recoil is not really felt. Then again where I hunt two shots at game is the max. Trees etc. Perhaps a Cu Degas shot.
Recoil never bothered me all that much, until I stated shooting more than a little.
Yup. It's not a matter of "being afraid" or "not being able to handle" something. It's how much you want to shoot. I was shooting two .264's this weekend, one out of a .308 case and one on the '06 case. Once I got over 50 rounds each, you can guess which one got put away.
I know this thread is about hunting and not shooting, but if you want to be good at the former it's best to be good at the latter.
Originally Posted by 28lx
It has the ability to get a couple members to argue back and forth
Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
So I take it your still using a cross cut saw instead of a more efficient chain saw?
No I use a Stihl 660 and a Husky 395 but I'm not afraid of my 30-06 or my unbraked .300 Win mag, if you can't handle a 180 out of a 30-06 you definitely couldn't handle a Win mag shooting 208's. I have big guns and big saws, I suppose they make some people a little tougher than others. Cry babies that have no calluses are the ones who are "afraid" of all things a damn 30-06. Ask your wife if you can have your balls back...
You're either 5'3" or you're compensating for other inadequacies. A lot of us love the .30-06 but a lot of us are smart enough to realize many of the lesser cartridges kill deer just as well as the .30-06. And if you actually shoot more than 10 shots a year (didn't Stick say 1 box was a lifetime supply of .30-06? :D) its a lot more fun shooting these lesser cartridges.
I know people vary in recoil tolerance,but I've never seen a trained, experienced rifleman who couldn't turn in good performance while hunting with a 30/06. Not if he were used to shooting rifles in the first place.
It might not be the tool for a 50-100 round session in an afternoon,from a 7.5 pound hunting rifle, but there are other cartridges for that. It's still possible to do intelligent practice with one without developing bad habits.
I think the flaw in some folks thinking is that they judge by the largest animal to be taken rather than the stuff you hunt MOST of the time.
Truth is, the old '06 is only a great all-around gun if you think you need more than the 150 grain .270 for the big bears.
I consider the 150 grain .270 enough for the big bears. It has performed capably in that role enough times to be trusted.
That decision means you benefit on the smaller stuff like sheep and deer and antelope where the 130 grain .270 is slightly better in both killing power and trajectory than is the '06.
And, of course, the .270 is far better if employed in a varmint-killing role. That 110 grain '06 bullet has never been much loved by the long range shooters of smaller critters.
Recoil? It is a fact that a little less recoil is a little better. Not much, but every little bit helps when you're going for the smallest group you can get.
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
And no one has brought up how the .270 is so.......Gay!
Shew me thy ways, O LORD: teach me thy paths. "there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser" "the .30 Springfield is light, accurate, penetrating, and has surprising stopping power"
And, of course, the .270 is far better if employed in a varmint-killing role. That 110 grain '06 bullet has never been much loved by the long range shooters of smaller critters.
You could've said the same about the '06 in general, regardless of bullet weight. But then again, the question wasn't about varmints.
And no one has brought up how the .270 is so.......Gay!
Silly boy.
The .308 caliber is not enough bigger than .277 to get you out of the gay category.
You have to get into at least the 45-70 to do that.
Last edited by DancesWithGuns; 04/27/15.
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
smokespoles, The statement that lighter bullets makes recoil a non issue is true HOWEVER the OP was obviously talking about BIG game and the use of 110 and 125 grain bullets out of a 30-06 are not the best for hunting. ...
Why not? For many species of big game 110-125 grain .308" bullets are way beyond "overkill". A 125g AccuBond (B.C. .366) stepping out at 3300fps makes for a pretty flat shooter with a calculated 2109fps and 1235fpe at 500 yards. Zeroed at 200 yards, the drop at 500 yards is only 34". While that wouldn't be my first choice for elk, it is very comparable in terms of retained velocity and energy to a 150g .30-30 with 2300fps MV at a mere 50 yards.
The classic .270 Winchester load is a 130g bullet at around 3060fps (Winchester Power -Point X2705). At 500 yards with a 200-yard zero, this equates to a 42" drop, 1904fps and 1046fpe. Recoil from 8.3 lb rifle will be in the 16-17 ft-lb range depending on the amount of powder burned. Compared to the 125g .30-06 load referenced above, at 500 yards the .270 Win 130g load adds 8" of drop and loses 171fps and 318fpe. (It does, however, deliver a bullet with higher, but at .242 not great, S.D. with about 1-2 ft-lb less recoil)
Using your logic, a .308" 220g bullet is "not the best for hunting" either. Very few people choose them because they are slow (around 2500fps), generate a lot of recoil (about 25 ft-lbs) and have a B.C. about that of a cement block. Well, just what are we hunting? If hunting big bears a 220g bullet might be just what I want. In any case I would much prefer it to anything a .270 Win could throw.
Time to throw out all the .30-06 rifles? I don't think so...
Quote
... My point was that although lighter bullets do indeed cut down on recoil the OP is talking about for big game and most arent going to be shooting a 30-06 with 110 or 125 grain bullets just to cut down on recoil. ...
What "most" people do has never mattered much to me. After I zeroed a .30-06 for a good friend's son, he proceeded to take his first elk with it - using a Remington "Managed Recoil" load. The bullet weight was 125g with a claimed 2660fps MV.
The question posed by the OP, with regard to the .30-06, was this:
Quote
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
The answer is an obvious "yes" for a variety of reasons, some or all of which may or may not be important to a particular individual.
1. Versatility. The .30-06 can shoot bullets from 110g to 220g. With the right loads it is suitable for light varmint loads to loads suitable for the biggest animals in NA.
2. Ammo availability and variety. Midway usa.com lists 54 different .30-06 ammo types as "in stock" compared to 114 types total. For the .270 Win it is 21 types in stock out of 54 types total. For the .260 Remington the numbers are 5 of 15. For the .257 Roberts it is 0 of 13. And so on...
3. Ammo prices. .30-06 plinking ammo is often much cheaper than the least expensive ammo for other cartridges.
4. A .30-06 can often be downloaded to provide performance similar to the smaller cartridges, at very similar recoil levels.
5. Try as I might, I cannot upload my .257 Roberts to do what I can do with my .30-06 rifles. The same is true with many of the smaller cartridges.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against small cartridges per se, and in fact like them a lot. My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle and it does ***most*** of what I need done. It has been an awesome dual-purpose deer/varmint rifle. A good argument can be made for the .308 Win and while I like mine, it will not handle heavies as well as my .30-06s. My 7mm RM was my first centerfire and while I have a lot of sentimental attachment to it, I've never asked it to do anything I couldn't do with a .30-06. My 6.5-06AI is a great rifle, as is my .280 Rem, which will be my elk rifle this year. That said, if I had to let all my rifles go but one, I'd be left with a .30-06.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
Why is alot of the post concerned with 30-06 recoil? When did humans become such pu$$ies that a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06 is just too much recoil. People has become weak, I shoot 208gr amax's almost exclusively in my sporter TC Venture 24" with no brake. If the 30-06 is too much then you probably squat to piss or to damn old to be shootin. Suck it up!!! My little 130 lbs wife shoots my 30-06 with hot 178 Amax loads and doesn't say "oh it kicks too hard" people used to cut timber with cross cut saws and hunted with 30-06's with metal butt plates, they moved mountains with a pick and wheel barrel. Now were just fuggin weak, its pretty pathetic....
So I take it your still using a cross cut saw instead of a more efficient chain saw?
No I use a Stihl 660 and a Husky 395 but I'm not afraid of my 30-06 or my unbraked .300 Win mag, if you can't handle a 180 out of a 30-06 you definitely couldn't handle a Win mag shooting 208's. I have big guns and big saws, I suppose they make some people a little tougher than others. Cry babies that have no calluses are the ones who are "afraid" of all things a damn 30-06. Ask your wife if you can have your balls back...
You're either 5'3" or you're compensating for other inadequacies. A lot of us love the .30-06 but a lot of us are smart enough to realize many of the lesser cartridges kill deer just as well as the .30-06. And if you actually shoot more than 10 shots a year (didn't Stick say 1 box was a lifetime supply of .30-06? :D) its a lot more fun shooting these lesser cartridges.
5'10" 210 lbs, and I put a little over a 1000 rounds thru my '06 last summer. Never thought I would be accused of compensating for something, because I shoot a 30-06.
smokespoles, The statement that lighter bullets makes recoil a non issue is true HOWEVER the OP was obviously talking about BIG game and the use of 110 and 125 grain bullets out of a 30-06 are not the best for hunting. ...
Why not? For many species of big game 110-125 grain .308" bullets are way beyond "overkill". A 125g AccuBond (B.C. .366) stepping out at 3300fps makes for a pretty flat shooter with a calculated 2109fps and 1235fpe at 500 yards. Zeroed at 200 yards, the drop at 500 yards is only 34". While that wouldn't be my first choice for elk, it is very comparable in terms of retained velocity and energy to a 150g .30-30 with 2300fps MV at a mere 50 yards.
The classic .270 Winchester load is a 130g bullet at around 3060fps (Winchester Power -Point X2705). At 500 yards with a 200-yard zero, this equates to a 42" drop, 1904fps and 1046fpe. Recoil from 8.3 lb rifle will be in the 16-17 ft-lb range depending on the amount of powder burned. Compared to the 125g .30-06 load referenced above, at 500 yards the .270 Win 130g load adds 8" of drop and loses 171fps and 318fpe. (It does, however, deliver a bullet with higher, but at .242 not great, S.D. with about 1-2 ft-lb less recoil)
Using your logic, a .308" 220g bullet is "not the best for hunting" either. Very few people choose them because they are slow (around 2500fps), generate a lot of recoil (about 25 ft-lbs) and have a B.C. about that of a cement block. Well, just what are we hunting? If hunting big bears a 220g bullet might be just what I want. In any case I would much prefer it to anything a .270 Win could throw.
Time to throw out all the .30-06 rifles? I don't think so...
Quote
... My point was that although lighter bullets do indeed cut down on recoil the OP is talking about for big game and most arent going to be shooting a 30-06 with 110 or 125 grain bullets just to cut down on recoil. ...
What "most" people do has never mattered much to me. After I zeroed a .30-06 for a good friend's son, he proceeded to take his first elk with it - using a Remington "Managed Recoil" load. The bullet weight was 125g with a claimed 2660fps MV.
The question posed by the OP, with regard to the .30-06, was this:
Quote
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
The answer is an obvious "yes" for a variety of reasons, some or all of which may or may not be important to a particular individual.
1. Versatility. The .30-06 can shoot bullets from 110g to 220g. With the right loads it is suitable for light varmint loads to loads suitable for the biggest animals in NA.
2. Ammo availability and variety. Midway usa.com lists 54 different .30-06 ammo types as "in stock" compared to 114 types total. For the .270 Win it is 21 types in stock out of 54 types total. For the .260 Remington the numbers are 5 of 15. For the .257 Roberts it is 0 of 13. And so on...
3. Ammo prices. .30-06 plinking ammo is often much cheaper than the least expensive ammo for other cartridges.
4. A .30-06 can often be downloaded to provide performance similar to the smaller cartridges, at very similar recoil levels.
5. Try as I might, I cannot upload my .257 Roberts to do what I can do with my .30-06 rifles. The same is true with many of the smaller cartridges.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against small cartridges per se, and in fact like them a lot. My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle and it does ***most*** of what I need done. It has been an awesome dual-purpose deer/varmint rifle. A good argument can be made for the .308 Win and while I like mine, it will not handle heavies as well as my .30-06s. My 7mm RM was my first centerfire and while I have a lot of sentimental attachment to it, I've never asked it to do anything I couldn't do with a .30-06. My 6.5-06AI is a great rifle, as is my .280 Rem, which will be my elk rifle this year. That said, if I had to let all my rifles go but one, I'd be left with a .30-06.
Laffin', run comparable bullets and it will mean something.
I've been shooting a 30-06 in one form or another for 35 years, mostly at whitetail deer, but a few other things here and there. Outside of a brief interval back at the beginning, where I was being handed obnoxiously loaded 180 grain handloads, I have never had a problem shooting the '06. For a while there, I was even using it as my primary groundhog chambering.
I don't mean to call out anyone in particular. I can see where a fellow with an rifle that is not properly fit for the shooter (or vice-versa) could cause someone to think 30-06 is too much, that is a simple matter of ignorance. However getting all uppity and name-calling just, because some folks can handle the round and don't see a problem is somewhat beyond my ability to understand. I've been called a booger eating moron on the 'Campfire for shooting a 30-06. I've been called gap-toothed trailer trash for for it too. I just don't see the problem.
The top deer getter in our camp is '06 followed by 35 Whelen. Now, I'll admit the 35 Whelen is overkill, but I just like shooting my "Whelenizer" and it has been following me out to top off the freezer the past 10 years. The ought-sixes? Those are bread-and-butter rifles.
smokespoles, The statement that lighter bullets makes recoil a non issue is true HOWEVER the OP was obviously talking about BIG game and the use of 110 and 125 grain bullets out of a 30-06 are not the best for hunting. ...
Why not? For many species of big game 110-125 grain .308" bullets are way beyond "overkill". A 125g AccuBond (B.C. .366) stepping out at 3300fps makes for a pretty flat shooter with a calculated 2109fps and 1235fpe at 500 yards. Zeroed at 200 yards, the drop at 500 yards is only 34". While that wouldn't be my first choice for elk, it is very comparable in terms of retained velocity and energy to a 150g .30-30 with 2300fps MV at a mere 50 yards.
The classic .270 Winchester load is a 130g bullet at around 3060fps (Winchester Power -Point X2705). At 500 yards with a 200-yard zero, this equates to a 42" drop, 1904fps and 1046fpe. Recoil from 8.3 lb rifle will be in the 16-17 ft-lb range depending on the amount of powder burned. Compared to the 125g .30-06 load referenced above, at 500 yards the .270 Win 130g load adds 8" of drop and loses 171fps and 318fpe. (It does, however, deliver a bullet with higher, but at .242 not great, S.D. with about 1-2 ft-lb less recoil)
Using your logic, a .308" 220g bullet is "not the best for hunting" either. Very few people choose them because they are slow (around 2500fps), generate a lot of recoil (about 25 ft-lbs) and have a B.C. about that of a cement block. Well, just what are we hunting? If hunting big bears a 220g bullet might be just what I want. In any case I would much prefer it to anything a .270 Win could throw.
Time to throw out all the .30-06 rifles? I don't think so...
Quote
... My point was that although lighter bullets do indeed cut down on recoil the OP is talking about for big game and most arent going to be shooting a 30-06 with 110 or 125 grain bullets just to cut down on recoil. ...
What "most" people do has never mattered much to me. After I zeroed a .30-06 for a good friend's son, he proceeded to take his first elk with it - using a Remington "Managed Recoil" load. The bullet weight was 125g with a claimed 2660fps MV.
The question posed by the OP, with regard to the .30-06, was this:
Quote
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
The answer is an obvious "yes" for a variety of reasons, some or all of which may or may not be important to a particular individual.
1. Versatility. The .30-06 can shoot bullets from 110g to 220g. With the right loads it is suitable for light varmint loads to loads suitable for the biggest animals in NA.
2. Ammo availability and variety. Midway usa.com lists 54 different .30-06 ammo types as "in stock" compared to 114 types total. For the .270 Win it is 21 types in stock out of 54 types total. For the .260 Remington the numbers are 5 of 15. For the .257 Roberts it is 0 of 13. And so on...
3. Ammo prices. .30-06 plinking ammo is often much cheaper than the least expensive ammo for other cartridges.
4. A .30-06 can often be downloaded to provide performance similar to the smaller cartridges, at very similar recoil levels.
5. Try as I might, I cannot upload my .257 Roberts to do what I can do with my .30-06 rifles. The same is true with many of the smaller cartridges.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against small cartridges per se, and in fact like them a lot. My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle and it does ***most*** of what I need done. It has been an awesome dual-purpose deer/varmint rifle. A good argument can be made for the .308 Win and while I like mine, it will not handle heavies as well as my .30-06s. My 7mm RM was my first centerfire and while I have a lot of sentimental attachment to it, I've never asked it to do anything I couldn't do with a .30-06. My 6.5-06AI is a great rifle, as is my .280 Rem, which will be my elk rifle this year. That said, if I had to let all my rifles go but one, I'd be left with a .30-06.
I wouldn,t say that the 110-125 grain bullets out of the 30-06 are overkill but that is just an oppinion as is your oppinion that they are. The comparison to the 30-30 ?
OP specificly said excluding the Big Bears so any comparison between the cartridges for bears is moot.
Never said that it was time to throw out all the 30-06 rifles
The fact that what most people do has never mattered to you and that you Zeroed a good friends Sons rifle for him and the the son was able to take his first elk with it using Managed recoil load has absolutely nothing to do with the op question.
You only listed part of the op question. The Question from the Op was for big game other than Big Bears
The OP Did NOT ask about Versatility AMMO availability AMMO prices Downloading a 30-06
But to address those issues Versatitily-the 270 Winchester for example with the right loads can be used for Varmints to the Largest game in NA as well as the 30-06
Ammo Availability- In the first place Midway USA is not the only place to buy ammo,In the second place Just how Many loads does one need for big game? A man can only shoot one load at a time out of his rifle ! And I suspect for the 270 Winchester as well as other cartridges that a person can find an a Factory load for the game animal they choose to hunt. In addition Bullets for the 270 Winchester and again enough bullets for other calibers can be found that are suitable for the game being hunted.
Ammo Prices- is really a moot point considering the amount of factory Ammo shot in getting ready to and shooting big game animals. That having been said I have many times seen 270 Winchester priced as cheap and sometimes cheaper than 30-06 ammo.
The 30-06 being the last rifle you would let go ? I could definetly have a 30-06 for a one rifle big game rifle for everything but the Big bears and would not have an issue doing so. I like the 30-06 HOWEVER the 270 Winchester Will be fine for every thing else and Kick me less in the process.
