Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 24HC Black Rifle Challenge Thread

That VX6 1-6 is definitely not a target scope but it's easy to kill stuff with it. I am gonna try my 18" Noveske this evening if the weather holds.

I'm building 4 rigs right now. Hope to join the fun when I get a chance to get them all together. Honey dos and kiddos keep getting in the way

Given a target you can see well enough, its not that much of a hindrance either...

FWIW I have best luck with low power scopes or load testing with a 6x or 9x at 600 yards, by using a diamond instead of a square and then using the copier to enlarge/reduce as needed.

Last I looked I THINK I have diamonds from half inch to about 5 inches.

This is a placemarker until i get cleared to shoot from my carpal tunnel.
?

10 rds at 100 yds off a bipod and rear bag.
14.5" Northtech defense with Mk4 4.5-14 (only for load testing)
69gr bthp on R15

nice for a 10 shot group! Good start there!

24.5 of RL15?

24gr even Rost

Cool. Same or about, that I"ve put behind 75s for some time, though the accuracy from RL15 never seemed as good as other powders it was pretty close.

A decided lack "sub moa all day long" rifles....





Reality is often a harsh mistress.



1-1.5 MOA for 10 rounds is consistently about what a solid shooter can expect with most match ammo without cherry picking groups when just dropping down and shooting. Certainly can be smaller, but that isn't average.

I don't even have a clue if all my loaded ammo thats 10 plus years old and the guns in teh safe along with me are capable anymore.

I know that you are fooling yourself though if you are not dealing in 10 shot groups. They show reality IMHO. I"ve shot some snug 10 shot groups that had 1-3 rounds open them up, but thats reality really.

My goal was always 1.5 inches for 10 at 300 with my service rifles. Most of the time I could get there or close... but sometimes it was not easy.

me thinks a $500 Noveske barrel should shade 1MOA with match ammo, which ain't happening in this barrel. Hell I am just going to buy me a Mini 14.

I think the AR itself, with a good barrel and ammo, is capable of great accuracy. I see no reason why one couldn't shoot .5 MOA if shooter error was eliminated. However, I think anything consistently under MOA is great from an AR given the fact that the AR is more difficult to shoot accurately than a bolt gun.

Lets see more targets. I could have sworn there were some good shooters here.

I'm not a big group shooter, but maybe somebody can explain to me why ten shot groups are necessary.

If my AR is for hunting and I don't ever plan on shooting more than five shots at a time, why would I care what a ten shot group looks like? If five shots are ALWAYS in a group that's acceptable to me at the ranges I shoot at, why would it bother me that ten shot groups are too big?

It seems akin to saying a rifle isn't accurate unless it shoots well at 500 yards, when the hunter only ever hunts at 75 yards.

For reference, my deer rifle holds four rounds-so I shoot four shot groups. But have been told that my four shot groups aren't acceptable because they're short one round.

The industry standard is 3 shots, even GA Precision's accuracy guarantee is 3 shots.

3 is easy and 5 is what I shoot mostly when I shoot groups. Though I have gotten off the bench for most of my shooting and have been shooting steel.

This is a fun excersize nothing more, I never did get my best accuracy off a bipod even with 5 shots. 10 shots tell you what the rifle is doing but also what you are doing. If I was looking for the best groups, I would use a front bag and let the barrel cool between shots or at least groups. but the range was closed this evening for the monthly meeting, maybe I can find a dry day to get out soon.

I still have other AR's and irons to shoot.

Any barrel that is 300 bucks as is, without setup/chambering, should be solidly under MOA with the right ammo. If not its a clunker

The worst we ever had was a Krieger that approached MOA... hovered around 3/4-7/8 basically for its complete life. Was a lemon to me compared to others, but it shot well enough to win stuff in the meantime...

For a while I had a single target that I used on every trip to the range.

I'd fire the first shot of the day at the same target. It was interesting to see a bunch of one-shot groups all on the same target.

Blue,

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/279218_.html

This is a pretty good explanation as to why 3 shot groups, and even a single 5 shot group, are not a big enough sample size to accurately measure the potential of a given rifle or load.

While accurate, your statement shoots your plan in the foot, IMO.

There's always some a-hole that picks at your good ideas, and in this case, that's me........and you.

By your statement, you agree with me that this test, while fun (and I'm gonna do it soon as I get my AR together), is only 1/3 about the rifle itself. The other third is optics, mostly including parallax issues, and the final third is the nut behind the trigger.

When I take your challenge, and I get to shot 7 or 8 (no matter how it's going), I *know* there's gonna be shooter error.

So what does this exercise tell us? Seems to me, and considering Blue's post, that pressure is the real test, rather than the weapon's inherent accuracy. To be able to make the shot when it counts, when the first 7 are tight, but you need 10.

While 10 is the number, each individual trigger pull is a test in itself.

The whole point of this thread is to test the rifle and shooter as a whole. Its not for me as much as it is for those who try it out and try to beat their old score. It would be next to impossible to ask random people to show the mechanical accuracy of their rifles and expect accurate results. Thats the reason I want the shooter supporting the rifle in some way and don't want lead sleds or benchrest setups holding the rifle steady.

I plan on beating my score this weekend.

my new build got a higher power scope swapped to it today, I finished the lower put in a SSA-e, a B5 sophmod, did not get a Ergo grip yet, get that next week. I am going to see if it does any better at 10X.

It is a lot smoother shooting than the 16 inch LW from DD.

y your statement, you agree with me that this test, while fun (and I'm gonna do it soon as I get my AR together), is only 1/3 about the rifle itself. The other third is optics, mostly including parallax issues, and the final third is the nut behind the trigger.

which is why I always take my Xanax before shooting...