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It's all about precision of placement for me. I hate wounding animals. My eyes are getting worse, so I lean towards scopes now, for all ranges. However, I've killed deer out to 90 yds with open sights, but where I hunt, that's a longish shot. I've used irons out to 500 in competition, but a bad shot only costs points. Where I hunt, a 30 yard shot is more likely than a 200 yard shot, and I'll probably shoot through brush and will need to pick a lane. For these reasons, all of my hunting rifles are scoped.

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A lot around here run see-thru rings with a 3-9x50 on their 30/30, you know, just incase they get too close or it's too dark to see through your scope................


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I'll agree with Steelhead on this one. People who denigrate aperture sights never gave them a fair shake, or chose the easy way out when their eyes started to go south on them. My 62 year old eyes are as bad as anybody's here, and most of my hunting/shooting is with aperture rear sights. (Why? Because like JB said, it's fun.) There are many tricks to employ that allow one to do that, if one has the desire to learn.

I have a couple hunting rifles that are scoped via Griffin&Howe QD mounts, but with those rifles the scope is actually the backup sighting system secondary to the receiver sight main sighting systems. The scope is carried either in a day pack or in a leather tube slung over my shoulder. I too don't eat my heart out if I have to pass up a shot in low light due to inability to see the sights.

Where I do rely on scopes is with varmint rifles and one particular squirrel rifle, with which to make precision hits on little beady brown eyes peeking out through tiny openings that I can't even see with the naked eye. I guess that re-inforces some sentiments expressed here earlier.


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Originally Posted by Oheremicus
Scopes don't help you shoot better. They help you see better. On a target range, with a black bull against white paper, I can shoot effectively hundreds of yards. But in the field, my target can easily be much harder to see. Heck, in bad light, I might not even be able to see the front sight.
It doesn't take much scope to really help one see better. Even the 2.5X scopes help alot. E


Bingo!


My Browning B92 .44 Mag has factory buckhorn irons. I'm not going to change it because it was a gift from Dad. On sunny days I have no problems hitting clay pigeons at 100 yards but the biggest bull I've ever had in my sights got walking papers at that distance because it was overcast and I was in the aspens, which further darkened things. Couldn't get a good sight picture and finally let the bull walk.

All my other rifles and even my .44 Mag handgun have scopes. Someone said scopes don't help you shoot better, they help you see better. I disagree - when I can't see the irons I can't shoot well.




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With open sights I have taken animals out to 85 yards - a Krag, and an original High Wall. IIRC one of my deer fell to a 99 with receiver sight.

My Sharps has done a couple inches at 200 yards, and at some point I will give it a whirl on game.


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In rereading the post title, I guess that I need to change my answer somewhat.The apparent intent of the post was a what distance was a scope "needed".The answer to that question has more possible answers than the obamacare bill has pages.My answer was based on preference and not on need. When answering the "need" question, I will make an attempt a somewhat intelligent response. When just plinking,or taking small game at reasonable ranges and lighting,iron sights/aperture sights are fun to use and certainly have their place.I do some handgun hunting with open sights,but pick my hunt terrain and lighting with my limitations in mind,and only then when we have elk in the freezer. If my primary objective is to put meat on the table or a possible trophy animal,I want every advantage I can put into my arsenal.This may mean hunting until last light,or in heavy timber/brush where poor lighting or picking a hole to shoot through is more probable than possible. I guess it all boils down to,if I'm serious or merely having fun! memtb

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Originally Posted by Oheremicus
Scopes don't help you shoot better. They help you see better. On a target range, with a black bull against white paper, I can shoot effectively hundreds of yards. But in the field, my target can easily be much harder to see. Heck, in bad light, I might not even be able to see the front sight.
It doesn't take much scope to really help one see better. Even the 2.5X scopes help alot. E


I'm of the same opinion.
My Savage 300's and a couple of Schmidt Rubins I have, iron sights, I feel confident out to 200 yards. 9" pie plates don't stand a chance.


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FWIW I started out with open sights, as a lot of people did. I had been shooting for several years before I owned a scope, and even now, 40 years later, I have several rifles without scopes.

As I enter my 50s I have to say that open iron sights are getting harder to use, especially in lower light. As someone said above, a lot of factory opens are poorly designed too, which doesn't help, but a good wide square notch and a square post, the design I have on a couple of rifles, works reasonably well - good enough to plug a pig or deer at maybe 100 yards anyway.

Better still is an aperture sight, and I have several rifles with these. They work fine for the sort of distances I'd usually shoot game - far more often at under 200 yards than over 200. I've shot with aperture sights on the range out to 1000 yards, and IMHO as long as you can see a reasonably distinct aiming mark they give away little in accuracy to a hunting scope. By way of actual comparison on my .45/70 the groups with a scope on 5x were about 1 1/4" at 100 yards, and about 1 1/2" with a peep.

Undeniably the scope is better in very low light though. Better when the target is hard to make out too, whether because it is obscured by cover or the same colour as the background. I've found that a low magnification scope is also very fast to use - fast enough to shoot clay pigeons when mounted on my combination or drilling, and certainly fast enough to bowl over running game - I don't think that open sights have any advantage at all in this regard, at least for me.

The main area where, at least in my own experience, a scope falls down compared to aperture or even open sights is in rain. Rain on the lenses, or fogging on the exterior from my own breath in wet conditions, has cost me opportunities, though some of the newer coatings seem to be an improvement.

The scope also adds weight of course, but not much with the smaller scopes I prefer, and needs a bit more looking after than a solidly-made set of open or peep sights.

Possibly the best solution, and the one I have on several hunting firearms, is a scope which can be detached quickly by hand, and replaced without losing zero, backed up by a good aperture or open sight setup (which is also properly zeroed of course). That way if I have a bad spill, or it starts raining, I can take the scope off and keep hunting.

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Some of the nicest days for still hunting or tracking back here is when it's snowing or raining...not blizzards or downpours but enough to smear lenses constantly if you are on the move.

Shots are generally on the short side( not unusual to walk up on a buck under those conditions),and a good receiver sight with aperture removed is as good as it gets for that stuff.

These conditions inevitably pop up every year here. 99% of the time a scope is the right tool, but there are times when it's just a PITA and can cost an opportunity.




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I guess I don't understand this question? Do you guys actually hunt where you know exactly how far you'll be shooting each time? If so, I guess it would be easy to decide if you can take out the rifle with the open/iron sights one day, or a scope another day. As for me and most guys I hunt with, we really don't know how far off game is going to appear- 20 yards to 450 yards at any time during the day would be typical.
Since I don't know which range I will be shooting at game, all my hunting rifles wear scopes except a couple .22's I own. I don't take the scope off for the day so that I can shoot within my set range for that particular day. So, if you're using irons and you see game beyond your self set range, do you just let it walk?
To me, being prepared for whatever comes your way is hunting and a scope fills that bill better than any other system. Your mileage may vary.

Bob


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tarzan I have not read this whole thread but WHEN you are far sighted, as I am, you can NOT use iron sights because the rear is so fuzzy you can NOT be precise (as precise as one can be with irons anyway).

I can shoot handguns because the gun is ARM'S length, but with a rifle the rear sight is too close. So I have no choice but to use a scope with ALL rifles from 22 RF up.


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Originally Posted by Sheister
So, if you're using irons and you see game beyond your self set range, do you just let it walk?

Bob


Yep, if I can't get any closer. What's the big deal? I don't feel emasculated if I pass up a shot I'm not comfortable with.


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Sheister,
I'm with you on this one. I will use every legal means that I can to fill the freezer with meat. Once that is accomplished, and I'm hunting for pure pleasure, then I could consider open sights, handguns, etc. memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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Originally Posted by Sheister
So, if you're using irons and you see game beyond your self set range, do you just let it walk?


The answer should be yes no matter the sighting system.

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Originally Posted by Sheister
So, if you're using irons and you see game beyond your self set range, do you just let it walk?


If it is too far away get closer. That applies whether I'm hunting with a scoped rifle, one with open sights, a shotgun, a bow, whatever. You need to know what your maximum is with the gear you have, and stay within it.

Getting closer is at least half the fun anyway. There's nothing like the charge I get from it, and succeeding despite the advantages the animal has. And if I can't get close enough to make the shot there'll always be other opportunities. YMMV

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My limit is 250 yards. With a peep on my hunting rifle (30-06) I can keep 8 out of 10 shots on an 8" paper plate. If it's further, I get closer. Now military "meat" hits, I'm good to 600 yards. I still shoot military High Power matches to stay in practice.

It's an individual thing....have fun, Tom

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I hunt with open sights/peep sights, when I do, for the enjoyment it brings. I would definitely let a critter walk that I did not think I could hit well.

Fortunately, that has never happened when I've been hunting with open sights. Maybe they make me sneakier!?

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Somewhere between forty to fifty years of age. When you need readers you cant focus on the rear sight, and the front sight, and the target or animal. That is when most folks "need" a scope.

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Not necessarily. That age range is when it hit me, and at age 62 with very myopic vision and old folks' short range focus issues I still function quite well with iron sights. Several approaches can work.

Do what I did and consult your optometrist for help. Since I wear contacts in lieu of glasses (and put on reading glasses over top of them to, well, read), he advised a couple of things:
A) He gave me a contact to wear in my dominant (right) eye that altered me to focus to arm's length (somehow), and keep the target in acceptable focus which allows shooting a pistol.
B) He suggested utilizing apertures to focus the light. That can mean a special purpose aperture attached to my shooting glasses (or even just a piece of tape with a tiny hole in it, slapped on the shooting glasses lens in front of my dominant eye), or adopting tang/receiver sights for rifle shooting (with adjustable irises or selections of discs with different diameter apertures, to adapt to varying light conditions).
C) While wearing contacts for basic vision correction, slip on a pair of low power el-cheapo reading glasses, 1.00x or 1.25x, to allow short range focusing of sights and still retain an acceptably focused target. That's the system I use when shooting an iron sighted .22 or a primitive muzzle loader and it works surprisingly well. I even use this trick when hunting with a primitive muzzle loader, by perching the glasses down on the tip of my nose while hunting and pushing them up in front of my eyes with my stock-gripping thumb as I shoulder the rifle to shoot. A little practice makes that motion second nature.

Are these tricks a panacea for failing vision? No, but they work pretty well and serve to keep me in the shooting game using equipment that I most prefer for personal reasons.


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I thought the only guys with scopes shot those big shiny Weatherby magnums? Scopes are a fad. They're never going to catch on.






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