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Posted By: Gun_Geezer Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
Used to use 100 gr 3-blade Muzzy's with the Tri-car tip out of my compound. Leaving the bow at about 275 fps, I always got a pass thruough on deer out to 30 yards even though. So it did well at decent speed and I collected a lot of deer and a few hogs over the years.

Concerned that this same (same type) broadhead may not have the energy for pass throughs since I'm only getting 178 fps (chronograph) out of my recurve. And now I find out that Muzzy stopped making this broadhead. frown So i have to find something else anyway as I only have 3 left in my box.

Does a recurve at only 178 fps need a cut on impact broadhead for pass throughs out to 25 yards? Is a 2-blade preferable to a 3-blade at recurve speeds?
Posted By: Pappy348 Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
Just like with rifles, "energy" favors velocity, and doesn't necessarily translate directly to killing power. Razor-sharp cut-on-contact heads are catching on because they penetrate and kill well even from lighter, slower bows. It seems reasonable to me that a three-blade would take more force to penetrate than a two-blade, but other factors may come into play, like shot-placement. Obviously, a two-blade is easier to get really, really sharp, which is the most important thing IMO.

Watching this series on YouTube may give you some good info:

https://youtu.be/mJJqertQbHU

Don't recall them selling anything, except an idea maybe. Good pig killing, too.
Posted By: hookeye Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
Blade angle*, number of blades, degree of edge bevel, type of edge bevel (single vs double), degree of sharpness, tip type.....

all that just for the pointy end. (* length to width ratio of 3 to 1 is supposedly ideal).

Then there's quality of arrow flight, FOC and overall arrow weight (momentum and resistance to deflection during impact).

Then you have how zippy it was from the bow.



Heavy arrows do better, but shorten your range. Quiet the bow but increase time of flight.

Nothing is perfect.


You pick the characteristics you want and stay within their limits.

Personally I can't stand that Ranch Fairy guys delivery.


And it amazes me how many, even those w YT channels.............. don't know how to tune a bow, or understand how arrows kill.

Just shows some guys hunt with bows, and others are bowhunters.


Posted By: hookeye Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
My recurve arrows were 480-540 grains.
Big three blade Snuffers, or 2 blade heads w bleeders worked fine.

But I had a decent speed bow.........55# and FF rated seem to be the recommended min for the old big Snuffers.
Bow was under 200 FPS. Arrow flight was however, perfect, and arrows around 18-21% FOC (can't remember which arrows LOL)

Do not like a reg 2 blade. Have used them w success but the BT's were on the light side for the first half.
Didn't like 2 blades from compounds trucking way faster either.


Posted By: hookeye Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
KE favors speed.
Momentum is different.

KE is easy to calculate and what bow companies use to sell their stuff.
And why so many with the latest and greatest............get horrible penetration and lose deer.

KE KE KE...............yeah, so what?

Used to be, pick your aluminum arrow from the Easton chart, now go right one box, and pick the heavier of the two highlighted.
Use a sharp but sturdy head and buy some freezer paper.

Cause you will be packaging venison.
Posted By: hookeye Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
Too many choices these days I think is part of the problem.
People pick the wrong stuff and blame the items when there is failure.
Esp like the ones that blame the BH when they have no deer to examine.

Lots of combinations can work well, but may have different applications/ limits.

When people pick wrong, it's on them, not the product.
Posted By: JGray Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
I use cut on contact heads - both 2 and 3 blade and avoid the replaceable blade heads with chisel points. Folks will debate endlessly about better penetration with 2 blade heads vs better blood trails with 3 blade heads. I think either are more than adequate on deer size game - pass throughs on deer shouldn't be an issue unless you hit bone...
Posted By: dale06 Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
Magnus makes an excellent cut on contact BH. It comes in two blade or two blade with a bleeder. I’ve used them with very good results. And they’re reasonably priced.
If you have extra cash, Iron Will makes what I think is the best BH on the market. It’s a cut on contact, two blade with a bleeder blade.
I’ve used them the past three years and in 42 years of bowhunting, I’ve not seen a better BH. But they are expensive.
Posted By: Pappy348 Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
Ranch Fairy annoys the crap out of me too when he tries to be funny and cute. Once he settles down, he's pretty good. Takes all kinds.

I've watched a bunch, maybe a couple hundred, hunting videos since the Plague began, and have seen a bunch of examples of poor penetration on well-placed shots at pretty close range. Often you can see the back end of the arrow flip to the side. Something clearly isn't working in those situations.
Posted By: hookeye Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
I just tell folks (when asked) to run a medium to medium heavy arrow w a COC head.
Don't insult them by telling them they aint running "adult arrows".
The Fairy is popular, and his shtick seems to have a big enough audience. More power to him.

Not my style for sure.
But then I cannot stand Paul Harrells gun vids either.
He talks like the listener(and he) are both hard of hearing and or retarded.

Like the THP guys though, young and funny. They seem to lay it out as is.

Chance on the Whitetail Adrenaline vids annoys me too...........too much mouth going on.
Posted By: hookeye Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
Yeah I hear ya on the plague vids. Has me burned out and season aint even started.
I gotta do some arrow testing this weekend.
Bad week so far..........hell, need to check phone and see if work has me on quarantine.
Posted By: Pappy348 Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
I've only watched TRF on the the THP videos. A little of him goes a long way. Harrell must be getting paid by the minute; he's a surefire nap starter.

The THP guys are pretty good. A couple of those guys are serious deer-stalkers too. Gotta admire their work ethic; never saw anyone work harder at it.
Posted By: Hunterapp Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
Originally Posted by dale06
Magnus makes an excellent cut on contact BH. It comes in two blade or two blade with a bleeder. I’ve used them with very good results. And they’re reasonably priced.
If you have extra cash, Iron Will makes what I think is the best BH on the market. It’s a cut on contact, two blade with a bleeder blade.
I’ve used them the past three years and in 42 years of bowhunting, I’ve not seen a better BH. But they are expensive.



Magnus gets good reviews though you could perhaps do better with one of the heavier Tanto tip single bevel if you truly wish to insure full penetration. Recurve self bow guys often go with the likes of a Cut throat or a Tuff head.

https://www.tuffhead.com

http://cutthroatbroadheads.com/broadheads.html
Posted By: Gun_Geezer Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
I, too, like the Magnus BH. In fact, I dug around and found I have about 10 older (25+ year old) 2-blade Magnus's that weight 110 gr. Still sharp! Odd that they made one 10 gr too heavy or 15 gr too light, depending on how you look at it!

I'm having good arrow flight with 150gr total pile weight, so I'll stick with that. I'm leaning toward the 100 gr Magnus Stinger (w/50 gr brass insert) for all the reasons mentioned. If they give good "same as my field point" flight they should do the job if I do my part of in one lung and out the other.
Posted By: hookeye Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
Originally Posted by Pappy348
I've only watched TRF on the the THP videos. A little of him goes a long way. Harrell must be getting paid by the minute; he's a surefire nap starter.

The THP guys are pretty good. A couple of those guys are serious deer-stalkers too. Gotta admire their work ethic; never saw anyone work harder at it.


Yes. The THP guys put in the work, and appear to have fun doing it ( oh to be young again LOL ).

Ted is a hoot and Zack is gung ho as heck.

I like their humor and attitude. Plus like you said, they show how hard they work at it. And.....after all their success.....they still seem very well grounded
Posted By: hookeye Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/28/20
I wish magnus did steel ferrules on their Stingers.
Have bent a few in shoulder or pass through.

The 125gr w bleeder is my cheap broadhead.
Although it seems to me they are more expensive than they used to be ( compared to others ).

A quiver of em on compound or recurve is fine w me
Posted By: Hunterapp Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/29/20
Recently ordered a Grizzly stick Ashby 315 grain heads to give a try. Made it out tonight to experiment with the 315 grain field points bare shaft. Wow 750 grain total arrow weight likely alters my arrow speed from my 65 lb 325 iso bow down near to what you are seeing from your recurve in terms of velocity.

Apparently my bow is dialed in fairly well as field points from 100 gr to 315 grains were all flying fairly well with a full length Bare shaft. No doubt the 750 grain total arrow weight trajectory has a much greater curve than my 450 grain total arrow weight arrows.

My Bow is always quiet, though this is the first time I experienced this level of quiet. The only sound experienced was the twang of the knock releasing from the string. Reason I opted to give the heavy single bevel Broad head a go is I was wishing to decrease concern of impacting bone. Maybe shot angles will be more flexible with this heavy single bevel broad head.

Only down side to the heavy single bevel broad head is velocity & in turn trajectory.

Advantages include decreased deflection, Increased penetration Nearly always through and through penetration with a 625 grain arrow COC broad head set up.


https://www.grizzlystik.com/Top-12-Arrow-Penetration-Enhancing-Factors.aspx
Posted By: nimrodtracy Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/29/20
The down sides to heavy arrows is the trajectory but if you know your ranges you should not have a problem now that we have hand held range finders. Also heavy arrows will make your shots more accurate and with a quite bow you will get better shot placements on your game animal.
Posted By: pete53 Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/29/20
another great old broadhead is Zwickey eskimo that a person has to hand sharpen,this old broadhead has worked great for me in the past,plus Zwickey broadheads are cheaper to buy yet and made in Minnesota.
Posted By: JGray Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/29/20
I've probably used more Zwickeys over the years than anything else - primarily the Delta 2 blade. I'm currently using the VPA 3 blade head on both traditional and compound setups but haven't stuck anything with them yet.

160 gr (wood) and 175 gr (carbon) for traditional

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

125 gr for compound

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: hookeye Re: Broadhead Choice - 07/29/20
Originally Posted by nimrodtracy
The down sides to heavy arrows is the trajectory but if you know your ranges you should not have a problem now that we have hand held range finders. Also heavy arrows will make your shots more accurate and with a quite bow you will get better shot placements on your game animal.


Per the ranch fairy pig hunts animals still move while arrow is in flight.

And Ive had fine accuracy w faster/ lighter arrows.

Heavies have advantages and disadvantages.
Up to the shooter to decide what characteristics he values most.
Posted By: bbassi Re: Broadhead Choice - 08/01/20
Late to the party but if you're going to shoot trad, don't discount the old Bear Greenies (with the bleeder). I've shot every deer for the last 5 years with them and they've never let me down. My other Favorite is the old Snuffers in either 145 or 160. I'll be going back to those this year just because I get a big grin when they leave a blood trail Ray Charles could follow.
I would ask what is your budget first. Second I would increase broad head weight and FOC. 200gr upfront works wonders! Several ways to going about increasing the FOC.

Broad heads I like and have had good performance with are in no special order:

Razor Tricks
Iron Will
WASP Sharpshooter Traditional
Valkyrie Bloodeagles
Day Six Evo X
Posted By: Hunterapp Re: Broadhead Choice - 08/01/20
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
I would ask what is your budget first. Second I would increase broad head weight and FOC. 200gr upfront works wonders! Several ways to going about increasing the FOC.

Broad heads I like and have had good performance with are in no special order:

Razor Tricks
Iron Will
WASP Sharpshooter Traditional
Valkyrie Bloodeagles
Day Six Evo X


I am in the school that Traditional guys are doing best in a hunting scenario when they take a fuller advantage away with a heavier arrow weight. 650 grains is the magic number according to Ashby. 650 grains total arrow weight & up more can actually be better if you can manage the trajectory. And yes Weight forward is best. There is more to it than this with the 12 factors of penetration & 1. Structural Integrity
along w 2. Perfect arrow flight are at the top of the list.


If you have time for a good read You will find yourself enlightened to read through at least some of Dr Ed Ashbys reports. Link offered below. While Ashbys proven philosophies may depart some away from todays main stream marketing, His philosophies were true then and now. Truly worth your time IMHO

https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/ashby-reports

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...19+Terminal+Arrow+Performance+Update.pdf

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...ality-4_Physics+of+Arrow+Penetration.pdf
His data is good but like all data people take it to the extreme. I don't think 650 is the magic number. I have best performance just over 500. After about 580 things start to fall apart. I am shooting 530gr total weight out of my Hoyt Satori Recurve. 548 total out of my Toelke Long Bow. 520 out of my Hoyt Advantage LTD finger bow. I have never not had a pass through on good shot placements with any of my set ups. With release bow I am not so concerned about a weight goal and more concerned with arrow performance I think my release set up is at 500 or maybe a hair under.

I like my arrows as short as i can get them seeing I have a long draw. I stay on the softer side of the spine charts, stiff arrows will give you contact for sure. I know a lot of guys think there is an advantage to shooting a stiffer spine. I have to totally disagree. With that said too soft is not good either, I try to get that sweet spot were I have enough flex to clear my riser and rest and stabilize in flight.

The problem with archery is that most just buy a set of arrows and are done with it. But reality is that isn't how it works. Yes you may get lucky and happen upon an arrow that works well enough. But really archery is a tinkerers game and requires constant adjustments. Wether it is from string wear in, your form changing, bow tuning, and the likes you always are playing with something. Those that take their bows to a shop to have work done are rarely set up perfect for the owner.
Posted By: Gun_Geezer Re: Broadhead Choice - 08/01/20
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
I would ask what is your budget first. Second I would increase broad head weight and FOC. 200gr upfront works wonders! Several ways to going about increasing the FOC.

Broad heads I like and have had good performance with are in no special order:

Razor Tricks
Iron Will
WASP Sharpshooter Traditional
Valkyrie Bloodeagles
Day Six Evo X

I want a broadhead that'll kill a deer or hog when released at recurve speeds of say 190 fps. Not so much a question of budget. That said, I see no need to blow big money if I don't need to. I do have other hobbies that have to be funded!

At traditional speeds, I'd think cut on impact is needed. I like the looks of the Woodsman, but they are pricey!

I can't see 650 grains. Seems like it'd be crazy slow and arc like a rainbow pass 20-yard. But what do I know.
Cheap I would go WASP Sharpshooter Traditional
Best I would say Iron Will
Posted By: DCR48 Re: Broadhead Choice - 08/01/20
Cant believe nobody mentiond the old bodkin from Whiffen archery or the original Bear razorhead. Then there is the Ace, Howard Hill, MA2 and 3 most you can still get if you look hard enough. Snuffers are great. All have killed alot of stuff well under 175 fps. Hard pressed to beat any of them. Years ago was trying to make a hunting arrow for under $1 all in wood shaft feathers nock brodhead and paint. Could do it with MA3 or Bodkins.
Posted By: redjones Re: Broadhead Choice - 08/02/20
Take a look at Magnus broad heads,they have a decent selection,are priced right,and have a lifetime replacement guarantee,if you damage one they will replace it for free.


Greg
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