Where do I even start if I want to go traditional? I see so many variations on bows. Recurves, stick bows, ILFs, takedowns, etc. I just want something to start flinging some arrows with in the back yard and try the whole instinctive shooting thing out and also something good enough that I can take hunting also. I really want to try taking a deer with traditional equipment shooting instinctively ... something I’ve wanted to do for a long time! What type of bow should I be looking for?
I think you should start at TradGang.com. Plenty of great beginning reaferences there and a tremendous amount of knowledge.
If you can find someone close to you that currently hunts traditional, they would be a great resource.
Start with a recurve in the 40# range to get the learning process started. If you get hooked, you will be on a challenging, rewarding journey.
I have been at it for over 25 years. Have hunted Florida to Alaska, small game to moose. Selfbows to recurves. Bamboo to carbon arrows, with flint knapped to high precision CNC heads.
I agree with CRS as far as local traditional shooters. If you have 3D shoots in the area go to one and find the traditional groups of archers going through. I almost guarantee that they will be happy to let you shoot through with them. You can get a lot of help at those events. Or a local archery shop with an indoor range might have a traditional group that shoots there. These suggestions will be better when the virus precautions slow down of course. Bow and arrow options are plentiful of course. A local archery shop with traditional archery outfitting experience can help you out a lot. The right equipment can make or break the experience for some, and you don't have to break the bank to start out. What state are you in?
I like to shoot before I buy. If you fortunate enough to have a traditional archery shop with in a days drive I would start there. I didn’t have a shop close, but there was a Tuesday night traditional league at the local archery range. I started hanging around the range on Tuesdays before their league started. Most of the guys were more than willing to share advice and let me shoot their bows.
RickyBobby, I have shot traditional for 55 years. In a moment of insanity between 1981 and 1983, I shot one of those whirlygadget compound devices. I couldn't hit squat with it. Do yourself a favor and get a copy of G. Fred Asbell's book "Instinctive Shooting". Read it and then re-read it. It has much in the way of good instruction to get you started. Also, Jim Chinn wrote a book called "Wind of Change" that is another excellent volume on traditional archery in general. You are embarking on a wonderful, albeit sometimes frustrating journey into the "mystical flight of the arrow" to quote Ted Nugent. There's nothing quite as satisfying as watching an arrow, especially one made by yourself of wood, arc toward the target and strike where you're aiming. I have posted a take down Palmer Classic recurve in the classifieds, if you're interested. Definitely NOT a beginner bow, but ultra high quality and it will give you an idea of what's out there. PM me if you're interested in pics and I will send some your way. In my opinion, metal handled traditional bows lack "soul", although there many shooters who enjoy them. Feel free to contact me if there's anything else I may be able to help you with, questions I can answer, etc. I built custom longbows for about 11 years and know a thing or two about construction, wood choices, design, etc. Good luck with your new adventure.
Start by buying a book called Shooting the Stickbow. You can get it on Amazon for about $20.
Next best advise is to buy and inexpensive 'too light' bow. Learn to shoot with proper form and figure out what you are doing without straining to hold the bow back. Think 30# or less. It's like learning to shoot with a .22lr instead of a 300Win Mag. Learn to shoot, what type of bow you prefer, how you want to shoot it, then spend the money on a nice one. Trad is a lot of fun.
I've been shooting traditional gear since I was a kid and back then it wasn't as intimidating getting started because that's all that existed. Now with compound bows being so much more common than traditional bows, finding a good archery shop close to home is nearly impossible which can make getting started overwhelming. Montana Marine on this site went down this road a couple of years ago and has posted his progress learning to shoot and some of the bows he's purchased. In addition to some of the books referenced above, searching out some of his posts on this sub-forum may be useful in giving some insight.
Generally, I think most agree that a recurve is easier to learn to shoot than a longbow and is probably the style of bow most would recommend. I'd keep things simple to start - if you go recurve, one-piece vs takedown is a choice you'll have to make. Takedowns seem to be more popular though I prefer the cleaner lines of a one-piece. A takedown has more physical weight and some prefer them for that reason alone whether they have a need or not to break them down. I have one-piece, takedown and ILF recurves and would probably stay away from ILF for now. The adjustability/tuneability of ILF limbs will just add more variables for you when you're trying to learn the basics. I shoot both recurves and longbows and do shoot a recurve more consistently, but actually prefer/enjoy shooting longbows more. Utahunter above mentioned he has experience building longbows - I do as well. I started building my own bows over 30 years ago and for me, a large part of the enjoyment is shooting/hunting with gear I make myself.
As mentioned above, there are traditional archery forums that are good resources - Tradgang.com and Stickbow.com's Leatherwall are two that I frequent. I'd check them out and feel free to ask any specific questions you have.
Edit to add: the single biggest mistake you can make is buying a bow that is too heavy in draw weight. Depending on your physical abilities and wanting to hunt with a bow, probably 40-45 lbs at your draw length would be a good maximum to get started.
I guess another thought on onepiece vs takedown recurves is that with a takedown, an initial purchase with lighter limbs, say 30-35 lbs to start learning leaves the door open to add a heavier set of limbs when your ready and want top start hunting. With onepiece bows, its a whole new bow purchase vs just limbs. An ILF setup shines here since limb mounts are universal and the sky is the limit in limb choices.
Buy a black hunter longbow at about #45, and a good string to go with it. Go to YouTube and start watching videos by Tom Clumm, you’ll be ready to hunt in no time.
RickyBobby, I have shot traditional for 55 years. In a moment of insanity between 1981 and 1983, I shot one of those whirlygadget compound devices. I couldn't hit squat with it. Do yourself a favor and get a copy of G. Fred Asbell's book "Instinctive Shooting". Read it and then re-read it. It has much in the way of good instruction to get you started. Also, Jim Chinn wrote a book called "Wind of Change" that is another excellent volume on traditional archery in general. You are embarking on a wonderful, albeit sometimes frustrating journey into the "mystical flight of the arrow" to quote Ted Nugent. There's nothing quite as satisfying as watching an arrow, especially one made by yourself of wood, arc toward the target and strike where you're aiming. I have posted a take down Palmer Classic recurve in the classifieds, if you're interested. Definitely NOT a beginner bow, but ultra high quality and it will give you an idea of what's out there. PM me if you're interested in pics and I will send some your way. In my opinion, metal handled traditional bows lack "soul", although there many shooters who enjoy them. Feel free to contact me if there's anything else I may be able to help you with, questions I can answer, etc. I built custom longbows for about 11 years and know a thing or two about construction, wood choices, design, etc. Good luck with your new adventure.
Hey Utah, you sound familiar. You didn't used to go by "elmbow" on another forum, did you?
I have shot Blackwidows off and on for over 30 yrs, had three built, and bought five used. While metal riser may not have any soul.................I really do like the old Blackwidow HS as far as ANY recurve goes.
My buds have had Bighorns, Elburgs, Chastains, and a bunch of other factory and custom bows.
They're all fun, each had its unique feel/performance.
Factory bows can be downright good too, my Hoyt Dorado riser w Tradtech limbs was a bargain AFAIC. I just don't like a 19" riser.
ILF is fun, esp if you decide to go with a "fixed crawl". I have had a couple and just set them up like a reg bow and left em.
Here is an informative, long but well done video...........
I do not know where you live, but RMS gear in Colorado would be a great trip for you to get started. If that is possible. They have hundreds of used bows and they hold shooting classes. Learning proper shooting form from the start IS the way to go. You could not get a much better start in this traditional journey than a few days with them.
They are not the only resource, but a very good one.
I have never been a great target/3D archer, but I am a die hard bowhunter. It took me more than a few years for my hunting ability to catch up to my shooting ability.
If ya can't shoot targets you can't shoot fur. The shot is the shot.
Trad is easy to corrupt, and one can do decent with things all mucked up. But usually the next time out they start where they left off and have to slob through it to get decent again.
Like others have said, good form is key.
IMHO a major killer of that is fatigue.
You have to push some, for strengthening mind and body, but not so much as to get bad habits.
Its so fun it's too easy to just go til ya damn near pass out. Don't do that LOL
I have a problem with hand/eye coordination. I can throw balls at a basket all day long and never hit it. My hand doesn't go where my eye is looking. That carries over to shooting. I've tried to shoot traditional a number of times over the years and failed miserably because I could never aim where I was looking. If I was an Indian, I would have been a vegetarian.
Buy a cheap recurve on E Bay. They a have Bear Wolverine package deal for about $170.00. Basically looks like a Samick bow which are also on E Bay for at around $110.00. You should go with a lighter bow probably around 40 to 45#. You can buy heaver limbs later or go to a full custom. I shoot Wes Wallace and Palmer bows, but all customs are pricey. Martin Hunters, which are a semi custom run around $800.00 now, but are great bows. If you don't like Trad you're not out that much and if you love it you can used it for bow fishing. These budget bows really shoot pretty well, I own one I bought after shoulder surgery to get back in the game, and bought a set of heavier limbs as strength came back. Don't get too heavy a pull weight. Back in the day we all thought we were tough and shot 65 to 75# bows, hence bad shoulders, Hard to sell a heavy bow now. Must of my friends and I shoot in the 50 to 55# range and that is plenty for deer and elk.Have fun!
I have a problem with hand/eye coordination. I can throw balls at a basket all day long and never hit it. My hand doesn't go where my eye is looking. That carries over to shooting. I've tried to shoot traditional a number of times over the years and failed miserably because I could never aim where I was looking. If I was an Indian, I would have been a vegetarian.
Are you cross dominant? 2 of my kids are (all right handed but 2 of the 3 left eye dominant). The offset is huge shooting that way.
Yet some folks do OK with it.
Lots of people don't know which eye of theirs is dominant.
There is a huge athletic ability component with shooting instinctive.
Learn the proper form, have tuned equipment, quality practice, and learn your effective range. If it is 35 yards, great. If it is 10 yards, hunt harder.
Not everyone has the ability to be a scratch golfer, top pistol competitor, sporting clays shooter, or elite athlete.
You can learn a ton watching youtube videos on traditional archery these days. The Clay Hayes videos are excellent but there are others. Buy a good low-poundage recurve (40 to 45#) and get started. I consider a bow like the Bear Grizzly or Browning Nomad to be good starter bows and can be bought fairly cheap. Attend a trad shooting event when you can and shoot a lot of different bows. You will learn what you like.
Buy a black hunter longbow at about #45, and a good string to go with it. Go to YouTube and start watching videos by Tom Clumm, you’ll be ready to hunt in no time.
The Black Hunter seems like a great starter bow, and one that you will never really outgrow. I might pick one up eventually.
I would probably start off with 30 or 35 pound limbs.
I had a rough start with a Bear Montana that failed, and ended up with a 40# Toelke Whip as my first bow. Not exactly a 'starter' bow, but really an amazing bow if you want to spend some loot.
In the last 18 months I've accumulated four bows in the following sequence,
1 - Toelke Whip, 40#. I started at 10 yards, 20 arrows a day. In about a month I was up to about 100 arrows per day, 15-20 yards
2 - Bodnik Slick Stick 35#. Wanted something lighter draw for more arrows, better form work. Very lightweight bow, about 16 ounces. Maybe too light to be considered a great starter bow. It's is not 'forgiving'.
3 - Bodnik Slick Stick 50#. Liked the 35# so much I 'needed' one with real killing power, and also a heavier weight 'workout' bow to build my strength.
4 - Samick Discovery 45#. After gaining some basic skill, I just had an itch to try a recurve, and an ILF, so that happened. Later I added a second set of limbs at 30#, for a great lightweight indoor garage bow for the winter, where my range is limited to 14 yards.
I've kind of settled down on the buying lately. I shoot mostly with the 35# Slick Stick, and the Samick Discovery with the 30# limbs. The lighter draw weight is just a lot more fun for me, especially for shooting a good number of arrows.
With the lighter bows, I'll shoot 100+ in a session. With the 45/50# bows I'll usually call it good at 50 or 60 or so, and then maybe pick up a light bow and shoot some more.
Start by buying a book called Shooting the Stickbow. You can get it on Amazon for about $20.
Next best advise is to buy and inexpensive 'too light' bow. Learn to shoot with proper form and figure out what you are doing without straining to hold the bow back. Think 30# or less. It's like learning to shoot with a .22lr instead of a 300Win Mag. Learn to shoot, what type of bow you prefer, how you want to shoot it, then spend the money on a nice one. Trad is a lot of fun.
Excellent advice. +1 on getting the "Shooting the Stick bow" book, and starting with light limbs (VERY important for learning proper technique)
Consider the Southwest Archery Spider XL 3-piece takedown recurve bow, with 30# limbs to start. Learn to shoot with it. Lower draw weight will permit more shots for learning, reinforcing, experimenting, and yes, strength development. New limbs are $75-80 if you want to increase draw weight. The Spyder XL is a 64" ( amo) how,came very smooth shouting out to 31+" draw lengths. About $150-160. https://www.southwestarcheryusa.com...urve-bow-parent-1?variant=29613097517116
Arrows: Easton xx75 aluminum alloy arrow shafts ( about $3/each). Add nock, insert, point (either 125-150-175 grain), feather fetching ( not plastic), get TBE simplest fetching jig you can buy - to make your arrows. 3-under finger tab by Bateman. Consider Lancaster Archery as a source for equipment https://www.lancasterarchery.com/shooting-gear/quivers-accessories/target-3d-quivers.html
Read trad websites (stickbow leatherwall, trashing, others). Watch YouTube vids by the likes of: Jimmy Blackmon, vabowdog, Arne Moe, "The Wedge" series, "The Push" series, many others.
Get "Shooting the Stickbow". It is the best $20 you will ever spend. Let Santa know. Maybe he will come through for you.
There is a huge athletic ability component with shooting instinctive.
Learn the proper form, have tuned equipment, quality practice, and learn your effective range. If it is 35 yards, great. If it is 10 yards, hunt harder.
Not everyone has the ability to be a scratch golfer, top pistol competitor, sporting clays shooter, or elite athlete.
Im no all star, never been, but have always had decent skills at other sports. But my vision was VERY good and I think "aim smal, miss small" to be a component of shooting bows well. Visual acuity, meant for me, mental acuity as well.
I can't see as good, or think as good, 35 yrs later. Still shoot well, but not good enough to compete. Kinda sucks.
Still nice to just have a target in back and blast a few now and then. Actually gonna do that in a few, it's nice out.
My 54# Blackwidow is now enough to need more practice/work. Might get a new one at 48# this summer.
Mine is older, and they don't make limbs for that model (I knew that, but really like that old metal riser model- 3rd one actually). Should fab a hotbox and try to make some limbs for it.
Shoot a higher FOC arrow. The added weight will shrink the gap. You might end up being able to use the arrow tip as a sight. The higher the anchor, the less gap.
Middle finger corner of mouth seems doable, split or 3 under.
I prefer to shoot without conscious gap aiming. But that takes a lot of repetition to burn in the sight pictures.
Got hurt one year and went 3 under, higher anchor and was able to use tip as sight. It was stupid easy. Drilled my deer at 25 yards, perfect.
It is however, stilted...........not fluid.
"look and shoot" and a medium high anchor just feels better to me overall. And I had 5 deer in a row using that method.
But I also had a range in my yard that went to 40 yards. You can be sloppy and do well, 20 and in.
40 yards shows your problems. Slop doesn't work there LOL Creep or pluck and she's way out.
LOL, coyote spooked a deer I crawled up to intercept ( was feeding to the blowdown I snuck into). Spent 45 mins after the spot to get in there.
Blowing? heard her run off. Stood and here came a coyote. Drilled him. 42 yards.
Like shooting my target in the back yard at 40 LOL Nonconscious gap shooting, but at that D it was "set it on my hand" kinda sight picture.
You can learn a ton watching youtube videos on traditional archery these days. The Clay Hayes videos are excellent but there are others. Buy a good low-poundage recurve (40 to 45#) and get started. I consider a bow like the Bear Grizzly or Browning Nomad to be good starter bows and can be bought fairly cheap. Attend a trad shooting event when you can and shoot a lot of different bows. You will learn what you like.
Originally Posted by buttstock
Originally Posted by centershot
Start by buying a book called Shooting the Stickbow. You can get it on Amazon for about $20.
Next best advise is to buy and inexpensive 'too light' bow. Learn to shoot with proper form and figure out what you are doing without straining to hold the bow back. Think 30# or less. It's like learning to shoot with a .22lr instead of a 300Win Mag. Learn to shoot, what type of bow you prefer, how you want to shoot it, then spend the money on a nice one. Trad is a lot of fun.
Excellent advice. +1 on getting the "Shooting the Stick bow" book, and starting with light limbs (VERY important for learning proper technique)
Consider the Southwest Archery Spider XL 3-piece takedown recurve bow, with 30# limbs to start. Learn to shoot with it. Lower draw weight will permit more shots for learning, reinforcing, experimenting, and yes, strength development. New limbs are $75-80 if you want to increase draw weight. The Spyder XL is a 64" ( amo) how,came very smooth shouting out to 31+" draw lengths. About $150-160. https://www.southwestarcheryusa.com...urve-bow-parent-1?variant=29613097517116
Arrows: Easton xx75 aluminum alloy arrow shafts ( about $3/each). Add nock, insert, point (either 125-150-175 grain), feather fetching ( not plastic), get TBE simplest fetching jig you can buy - to make your arrows. 3-under finger tab by Bateman. Consider Lancaster Archery as a source for equipment https://www.lancasterarchery.com/shooting-gear/quivers-accessories/target-3d-quivers.html
Read trad websites (stickbow leatherwall, trashing, others). Watch YouTube vids by the likes of: Jimmy Blackmon, vabowdog, Arne Moe, "The Wedge" series, "The Push" series, many others.
Get "Shooting the Stickbow". It is the best $20 you will ever spend. Let Santa know. Maybe he will come through for you.
All good advice. I second getting on ebay or even a pawn shop find of an old bear, shakespeare, pearson, or similar. The vintage bows shoot with the modern ones and have a vintage cool factor along with them plus being a bargain. 20 years ago I got started on stickbow leatherwall. Definitely check out the youtube videos mentioned and you could also check out the the push podcast and facebook pages. I started with a slightly heavier bow than many suggest just over 50#s. I joined an indoor 3d archery winter league. Was a lot of fun and got good practice in. There is a video series called masters of the bearbow that is good. If you get real serious about being a better shooter the push guys have signed up with Rod Jenkins, Tom Clum and Joel Turner along with others for shooting seminars. They are well reviewed. https://thepusharchery.teachable.com/.
In the last 18 months I've accumulated four bows in the following sequence,
This is the dark secret of most people who fall hard for Trad. We almost all go through it looking for the perfect bow, myself included. The good news is you will eventually find what works for you and settle into a bow/style of shooting that fits you if you give it a real chance.
When it all comes together and you take your first animal ala trad you'll understand why so many of us are hooked for life.
My best advice is "don't get in the weeds". We've been doing it for 40,000 years.
Other than the fact that an arrow is ultimately launched, compounds and traditional bows don't have that much in common, or at least, shouldn't have. It's much like shooting a shotgun vs. shooting a rifle...one is a science and one is an art. Or even turning on the radio vs. playing guitar.
I like my Mathews compound and my Robertson longbow. I like my radio and I like my guitar. I like my rifles and I like my shotguns.
If I want to shoot a long way, I shoot my rifle. If I want to shoot fast moving targets, I use my shotgun. If I want to make music, I play my guitar. If I want to hear GOOD music, I turn on the radio. If I want to kill something, I use my compound. If I want to HUNT something, I use my longbow.
Now that I think about it...guitars, shotguns and traditional bows, while maybe not as effective, are just more fun.
Yes, but remember, shooting traditional stuff doesn't have to be as much of a "production" as shooting a compound. I've got targets to 60 yards for my compound. The far target is pretty big, because I don't want to lose a $10 arrow or skip one off into the distance.
I haven't shot a traditional arrow at a dedicated target in 30 years. I practice with good blunt points that will not bury, shooting leaves, pine cones, stumps, trash...whatever. I shoot one arrow, retrieve it and shoot something else.
Ive had about 3 dozen recurves over the years, and as many compounds.
Am down to one. Might sell it if I order a new one.
Have arrived so to speak. Know what I like Looked at a nee compound last weekend.
Could end up w 2 bows. But those proly be the last bows i ever buy.
Blackwidow psa 2 and a Hoyt torrex. Used to shoot top end compounds but think the cheaper Torrex will be an OK hunter. Havent competed in yrs so dont need the latest n greatest.
Only reason for a new Widow is to drop #. Current one is a model no longer made.
Roll the sight out of the way on the wheelie bow and let 'er rip! Take video. I like seeing someone else's arrow glance off a tree never to be seen again. Used to shoot 3D with a fella who did that. Misses were spectacular.
The big difference when you don't have wheels is you need to be much closer and you're not driving down through one from 20' up. Think 10' and 15 yards. I hunt off the ground. It's a hoot!
Shooting trad is like shooting a shotgun. If you have your form down, you just look at the thing, shoot and follow through. You see where you want the arrow and put it there. When it's right it's like you are physically attached and making it happen all the way into the target.
Where do I even start if I want to go traditional? I see so many variations on bows. Recurves, stick bows, ILFs, takedowns, etc. I just want something to start flinging some arrows with in the back yard and try the whole instinctive shooting thing out and also something good enough that I can take hunting also. I really want to try taking a deer with traditional equipment shooting instinctively ... something I’ve wanted to do for a long time! What type of bow should I be looking for?
Hey, RickyBobby, we have a member here who is co-owner of a traditional archery company - John Havard (that's his user name too) of Dryad bows.
I've had some dealing with John, and he's a good guy. May be worthwhile to reach out to him. Here's his website link - https://dryadbows.com/
I struggled w trad when I started around '86. Good days, mediocre days, and some truly horrible. My anchor was too low and gaps so large my brain couldn't keep em remembered. Non conscious gap shooting.
I went higher anchor and changed how I practiced (2 brain farts and done for the day). Didn't ingrain bad habits that way.
Lots of good advice here. I'm no expert, but here's mine.
Buy a $150 ILF bow, draw weight about 30# @ 28", length 60" to 66" (longer is better), and that has mounting holes on the riser to accept a screw/bolt on $20 sight. You just need 1 siight pin. Learn how to shoot with this at 10-yards. Develop your form. When you can put 3 into a 3" circle at 10-yards then you've got your form down pretty good and you can move out 3 to 5 more yards.
$150 makes it not expensive to get started.
ILF allows you to change limbs for more draw weight in the future for less than an added $100.
30# allows you to work on form. And at 30# you can shoot lots of shots before you get tired.
Sight pin removes all the "gap", instintictive, and other stuff that can be frutrating to learn and interfered with learn form and love of trad. Go sightless later if you want to.
10-yards (or even 5-yards) brings quicker success, and more fun!
Buy a cheap recurve on ebay, don't go too heavy on the draw weight. 45# is plenty to kill a deer. You can get a sample pack of arrows in different splines to see what spline matches you and your bow from 3 Rivers Archery. The Samick $150 dollar bows shoot very well and you can see if you like it before going to a custom.
Satori is real good. Nice thing about it is it will work ok with lightweight limbs and arrows meant for heavier hunting weight limbs. Not perfect but they will fly well enough you don't have to buy two sets of arrows.
Buy somewhere they will help you tune it. Start with 25 or 30# limbs. There are things you need to figure out that are hard to notice with a heavier draw weight.
Get a 50# set of limbs a month or two before hunting season.
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