Starting to think about broadhead selection for my first season of bowhunting, and of course discovering they are almost as controversial as rifle bullets!

The quarry will be the local whitetail herd. On the board at my archery range the regulars post a log of their kills. The smallest from this fall weighed in at 58 lbs. and the biggest was 188 -- next to which someone wrote "Ya right!"

I am shooting a Hoyt Ultra Sport with Gold Tip arrows and 100-gr. field points, and I'm very happy with how it shoots when I do my part. (Nailed the vitals on the 40-yd. coyote 3 times in a row Sunday.) I use a horizontal peep and caliper release and the current draw weight is around 52 lbs.

Basically I want to keep it as simple and foolproof as possible, and that means the least possible re-tuning. If anyone's found a broadhead that shoots well in a similar rig, and kills well, I would be tickled to hear about it.

I'm not particularly worried about cost, since I figure I don't worry much about that for hunting bullets that can't even be reused ...

Suggestions?

In my compound setup, I prefer NAP Thunderheads. I've pushed them thru shoulder blades without damaging the ferrule, just replaced the blades.
Your setup is conservative enough that you should be able to just screw on a T-head. What spine GT's and what fletching? If they are 3555s and 4", it should shoot fine.

Long PM sent.

Good luck,
Sam

I second the Thunderheads. I have taken several elk, a couple of bears and 14 150-225 lb. mule deer bucks with them. The only way they break is if you hit rocks. They are very durable and reusable, simply replace or sharpen the blades. They are an extremely accurate head as well. Flinch

What weight of Thunderheads do you guys like?

Also if it helps -- my arrows are Gold Tip Hunter 5575 graphite (3-7/8" vanes) and the rest is a NAP Quik-Tune.

John

I agree with the guys above on the Thunderheads. We sell the Pro Series Thunderheads and the promotional video on these heads is impressive.



What is your draw weight and length, what brand vanes (just curious) and what arrow length do you shoot?



Also which quick tune do you have? (just curious)



Glad to see everyone is on the fixed blade head page. My preference is the Rocky Titanium 85 or 100 but wouldn't hesitate to trust a Thunderhead.

The vanes are whatever came with the shafts ... so I assume basic Gold Tip.

The rest looks like a Quiktune 1000.

Sorry to be clueless but as a total newbie, once I found a pro shop I liked, I let them figure a lot of this stuff out -- and so far the shooting results have confirmed the wisdom of that choice!

Vanes are probably Duravanes.

Let me guess on the pro shop, B&B or Bows and Arrows?

Nope, actually went out of state on this one -- The Gun Shack in Mt. Airy, MD.

Campfire member Dave King took me up there last fall, cool gun store with really nice archery guys and a great selection of bows from several manufacturers.

Funny thing is, it's the same bow the gentleman at B&B recommended -- the difference is he told me it was THE bow I needed, while at the Gun Shack I picked it out of 3 that I actually tried on their range.

A few weeks later an equally newbie friend went up there, tried some of the same bows including the Hoyt, and picked a Martin that would have been my second choice -- which I always point out as proof that there's no substitute for hands-on shopping.

I like 125gr T-heads. My wife is using 85gr and my dad uses 100gr. Except for my wife, who just switched from expandables, we had excellent results. Since you shoot 100gr field tips I'd try the same weight broadhead. The only way I see you having any trouble with arrow flight is if there is a misalignment in the insert that will cause the broadhead to wobble. Unlikely, but it does happen.

Been shooting 125 grain Thunderheads since.........never mind it will give my age away. They are the most dependabe broadheads I have ever used. Tried expandables and will never use them again.

I use a Lansky Diamond hone to sharpen mine.

I also like the 125 grain Thunderheads. They're accurate and absolutely dependable. With most of the setups I've used, they shot to the same POI as field points.

It appears that I lucked out when I picked the 125 Thunderhead when I got back into archery last year! They shoot to the same impact as my field tips. I'm glad to see it wasn't a fluke.
I bought a new Hoyt Ultra-Mag this winter and have it set-up for carbons. I will go with the 100 Thunderheads this time. Are there any pros/cons between 100's and 125's?

Used Zwickey Deltas for the last 25 years, before that it was Bear razor heads...
Catnthehat

Here's ya a broad head test site that kinda interesting...... http://www.american-hunter.com/broadheads/broadhead_test.htm ...Boots

Thanks for posting that -- not sure if I agree with all his methodology or scoring system (especially the + or - for heads that "should" have done better or worse) but some interesting points of comparison.

Go with Thunderheads. Hard to go wrong. I have taken whitetail, moose, griz, elk with the 100 grainers. Incredible penetration. Complete pass through the majority of the time. As someone else said, stick with the same weight as your field points

Big Red

Ditto on using Thunderheads! I use the 125gr version and don't see the need to change. You might want to put on a U.B.A.R on behind the broadhead to keep the rubber washer from slipping over and onto your Goldtips allowing the blades to come loose upon impact! They are inexpensive and don't add but .5gr if that. NAP suggest you use them and I have found the blades will come out if you have a hard impact when not using the U.B.A.R's on carbons like the Goldtips. Outstanding products!!

John,

The 100 grain Thunderhead Pro with ACC's have been perfect for me since getting back into bowhunting in 2001. They hit same POI as my 100 grain fieldpoints and do some real damage on their way through critters.



Good Hunting, Bruce



*edit* U.B.A.R's seem to be necessary with carbon or ACC type shafts as the poster above mentions....

Of the thirty or so whitetail deer i have taken with a bow i have only lost one and i blame that on myself. i use muzzy 90 grain three blade heads. the buck that i lost bled like a stuck pig, i guess we did not give him enough time to die and we jumped him. the broadheads did what they were supposed to do i messed up. i too used the nap t-heads for a while and one day just decided to try the muzzy's. i have not looked back since. anyway just an opinion....blake

John-- Good advice on the t-heads and muzzys-they are the old reliables of broadheads, sort of like a core-loct bullet. If you want to try some of the newer sexier stuff take a look at Slick-Tricks four-blade and the G-5 Montec solid three blade. Being one piece, the Montec doesn't have the problem of losing blades and it is easier to sharpen. The Slick-tricks are a little different design and are as close to field point accurate as any broadhead I know of. Also' the best source of archery info I know of is archerytalk.com . I think at 52lbs I would stay away from mechanicals and might even look at a good two blade cut on contact head like the Stinger. Good luck and let us know how your search works out.--Bill

I have always used Muzzy 100gr. 3-blades with great success, and also use Satellite Titan 100 gr. I don't trust mechanical heads, and have never tried any.

I am intrigued by the solid-looking G5 heads, but they are a little pricey...

try rockey montain snipers they penitrate better than any 3 blade fixed out there

I have some snyper 100gr coming I have been using Wasp 3 blade but dropped draw weight and want cut on contact which the snyper has.. Glad to hear they work for you..

"rockey montain snipers they penitrate better than any 3 blade fixed out there"

Pretty bold Statement <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Rocky makes great broadheads but mechanicals aren't known or used for their penetration and that is why they aren't used as much on game larger than deer.

Rocky's 3 blade Titanium fixed blade in 85 and 100 is one of the best broadheads on the market. We mostly sell them and the NAP thunderhead Pro Series. We sell mechanicals too but I personally wouldn't use them because sometimes arrows hit shoulders despite our best efforts to double lung them.

Have you actually tried the "Sniper"? Take a piece of foam, push any three blade fixed you want into it and then push the sniper in right beside it. You will see that it does penetrate better.
My wife's 40 pound bow pops these heads through every deer she shoots.
This head cuts on contact and does not have to ratched the blades open. They simply slide back into place.

w/o wanting to get into a pissing match with you.

I'm sure the Snyper is a fine head and one of the best mechanicals on the market, but you are comparing apples to oranges if you honestly think one of these heads would out penetrate a Thunderhead 100 or a Rocky Titanium 100. Physics makes it impossible but I will test this out first chance I get or just give Bruce Barrie a call.

I'm not sure how you are "pushing" it through foam but if you are doing it by hand, that doesn't really simulate what would go on with an in flight arrow. I wonder what would happen if she hit a shoulder blade with it.

One of the things that helps all Rocky Heads penetrate well is that all of their blades are extremely sharp, some company's don't pay that much attention to their blades.

Here's tests of the two heads, however the guy didn't do the tire test on the mechanicals and I don't think the steel drum test is a relevant test for broadheads but the Snyper does score very well and he gives it much praise for it's penetration.

Snyper

Rocky Titanium

Regards,
Sam

I dont want to be hard to get along with . The guy who asked the question about the broad heads in the first place doesnt want to resight or retune. The first and worst mistake I've ever made bowhunting was to hunt with fixed blade heads after sighting in with field points. I didn't have anyone to tell me it might change the point of impact as much as a foot at 25 yrds.Again I'm not trying to cause any trouble.
P.S if you hit the deer any further forward than the back 1/3 of the sholder blade you missed the lungs any way

Just to clarify -- I said I didn't want to have to retune any more than necessary. I totally understand it might take a little tweak and some sight adjustment.

Probably not much, though -- I picked up a package of 100-gr. Thunderheads and put one together on an arrow that had gotten its field point screwed up somehow. I shot it a couple times at a broadhead target and it seemed to hit where I was aiming -- hard to tell since the target's pretty well shot out and the arrow passed almost all the way through.

John

A bow that has been tuned correctly is capable of shooting fixed blades heads in the same hole as field tips too.

I'm fortunate enough to belong to the same gun/archery range as the gentleman that started this post so we'll have the opportunity to see which type of head he likes best in his particular setup and maybe he'll give me some pointers about shooting guns. Small world isn't it John? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The analogy I like to make for this mostly gun forum is that fixed blade heads are to barnes bullets as mechanicals are to ballistic tips. They both kill deer with well placed shots but have very different characteristics for doing so.

Of course I don't condone hitting deer in the shoulder with arrows but it occasionally does happen even with the best of shots. A fixed blade will penetrate one shoulder and most likely stop inside the chest cavity. Two things are doing to happen at this point. The deer goes down with a broken shoulder blade or the deer runs. In this case the fixed blade broadhead chops up everything inside the chest (lungs, arteries and possibly the heart) with extremely lethal results.

I shot a bull elk a few years ago at 35 yards with a 3 blade 1 1/8 Rocky Broadhead. The bulls was angling away so I aimed for the far side shoulder. The arrow entered him in the middle of the body, penetrated 25 inches and stopped somwhere on his far shoulder. The bull ran 50 yards before piling up and was dead within 2 minutes. I've also put these heads straight though deer broadside and have them penetrate a tree on the other side to the base of the blades. I've done this with 2 titaniums, cut them out, replaced the blades and they are good as new. Fantastic heads.

I will say mechanicals are great for people hunting in residential areas where quick as possible kills are needed and 10 yard shots are more likely. When a deer is double lunged with a mechanical it's extremely lethal. Most hunters that are out there with mechanicals aren't skillfull enough archers/hunters to wait for the perfect shot though. I also support the use of mechanicals when someone has not been able to get a fixed head to fly straight. Accuracy is obviously most important but it's a myth that fixed blades don't fly true. It just takes a little more patience to make sure the bow is set up correctly.

To each his own and here's to well placed shots for all bowhunters whether they are using fixed blades or mechanicals.

For the record -- Sam is modest and has killed a caribou at 10 times the distance I've ever killed anything ...







Strangely enough, sounds almost exactly like the elk I killed with a 180-gr. Partition. Hmmm, there's a lesson there.



John

John, sounds like you've received alot of good advice here. Pretty common from this site. I have used 130 Wasps, 125 gr. Thunderheads, and 100gr. Satellite Mag 100s. I do NOT recommend the Satellites. They are difficult(for me at least) to assemble and didn't hold up very well to targets or deer. I currently shoot 100gr. three blade Muzzys and they actually shoot the exact same POI as my field tips. I have not killed a deer with these yet, but they are highly recommended and I helped butcher two of my buddy's bow kills last year and he uses them. He got complete penetration on the two deer, one of which was slight quartering toward him shot that didn't hit the shoulder, but still went through a good bit of deer at that angle. He shoots 58lbs and hasn't had a problem with arrow flight or game performance. Good luck.

Be carefull if you climb down off that high horse,

I would like to see where you got that information.. By the way I shot Fixed Blade Wasp 100 but I am going to try the Snyper because I can feel I am turning into a hunter that is not skilled enough to wait for the perfect shot..

NRALife,



Before you come out hurling insults at a complete stranger you might want to try comprehending what was said in my statement that you quoted.



That statement doesn't mean that if you use a mechanical, you are not a skilled hunter. It means than there are more unskilled hunters/shooters using mechanicals than there are skilled hunters and shooters using mechanicals. This is why there is a large number of complaints about wounded game from these types of heads and not necessarily because the head failed or didn't do what it was designed to do.



The reason I made that statement was to point out that it takes a more disciplined hunter to use a mechanical the way it was intended. Mechanicals are meant to double lung deer pure and simple and get a complete pass-through. Meaning, to do so w/o hitting bone and ensuring a complete pass through you need to be almost completely broadside and you must also not be too high off the ground so the angle only allows a spine shot or a 1 lung shot. To take a deer humanely with this type of head requires a great deal of discipline, hunting skill and accuracy with a bow. If you mess up (which happens to everyone, except maybe Chuck Adams - TIC), your magin for error is greater with a fixed blade because they will go through heavier bone (shoulder blades and spines) and in case there is not a pass through they will tear up a deer's insides when they try to run. Mechanicals (currently on the market) by design do not perform as well in this situation..............resulting in poor blood trail and lost or wounded game. Wouldn't you agree there are many bowhunters out there that do not have the patience to wait for a complete broadside shot?



My reason for piping in on the mechanical discussion in the first place was I read a statement that I didn't believe to be true. "The Snyper will out penetrate ANY 3 blade fixed design".



I also believe that mechanicals were created because it increased the ability of the bowhunter to get an arrow with a broadhead to hit in the same point as there field tip. This is a good thing assuming that it will allow the archer to be more accurate than if he went into the field with a fixed blade that planes and hits a foot or two away from where his/her field tip does.



However, the myth that mechanicals fly truer than fixed blades is completely bogus and I wanted to point that out. I'm in the archery business and try my best to provide my customers with the best advice that I have gathered from forums such as this, reading many articles, talking to manufacturers and from trying the products myself.



Forgive me if my post sounded uppity because all I wanted to do was help reduce wounded game. I think some new hunters are mislead by thinking mechs are the only way to go for accuracy. When all it takes is a little more practice and patience to set up the bow properly and spend some time tuning the broadhead/arrow for your setup.



Unfortunately because of the way mechs are marketed and pushed by some pro shop owners. I think they are sometimes used as a shortcut which is like taking a gun hunting that has ONLY been bore sighted.



I realize many GREAT HUNTERS/ARCHERS choose to use mechanicals and I'm sure you are one of them.



Regards,

Sam

This is the third try to reply, It keeps "blowing up".

Sam We agree on the things that matter!!!
It may have been the wording before the first cup of coffee..

Anyway 30 years of bowhunting behind and hopefully 30 more in front..

Take Care

Larry

Personally, I think that it is easy for one to fall into the "gadget trap", that is putting something on a bow (or rifle, for that matter) to get better quicker, and that goes for the lateest, greatest anything, mechanicals included.
I have wittnessed this at archery ranges, and it saddens me, because on one hand the fella tells me he got into archery for the challenge, then asks me why I shoot such lousy bows and arrows. My bow won't break 200 FPS! Not that I have ever chronographed it. My arrows are super heavy, probably about twice what the other guy's weigh. How am I supposed to shoot a deer or bear past 30 yards with that set up?
Easy. I'm not. I shoot cedars 'cause I like them, and Zwickeys for the same reason. I like the challenge of taking game on the stalk, so I also don't treestand hunt.
I don't know anything about machanical broadheads other than they have moving parts, which I am not crazy about.
A friend tried some on Catalina Island once , and was not too impressed with them on The goats. They broke up on him, so He went back to fixed blades....
Catnthehat

You guys seem to have missed my point. There are only two mechanical blades out there that I know of that can compete w/ most 3 blade fixed broadheads; The "Snyper"and "Cut First". The only reasons these blades penetrate well is b/c they have a cut first point similar to a "Zwickey", they have only two blades w/ a moderate cutting width and these blades slope back at a slow angle. Any broadhead, mechanical or otherwise, will penetrate well w/ these qualities. I have personally used some mechanical broadheads that I wouldn't recommend to anybody. I have a 29'' draw length and never shoot less than 70lbs at a deer. Even at this high draw weight, a large 3 blade mechanical broadhead w/ an aluminum furell is not what i would recommend shooting a deer w/. However, these "Snypers" at low draw weight perform quite well. I don't have any trouble sighting in and tuning my bow w/ fixed blades. New archers have a tendency to either grip the bow or torque it in some way or another no matter how well the bow is tuned. A slight torque of the bow or even the slightest fletching contact will make a huge difference on the point of impact w/ a fixed blade. Let me define a huge difference; three inches at 20 yards is a huge difference to me. I believe mechanicals are less frustrating to a new archer when it comes to accuracy. It's not fun for a new archer to watch his fixed blade head sail off of where he was aiming after he spent $900 on his bow and hit a deer in the ponch. There are very few pro-shop owners that spend the kind of time necessary to bring a beginner archer up to the point where he won't grip the bow when that big buck walks out. If you are one of those who take that time- I take my hat off to you.
Take care and I wish you many ten rings.
Charles

"I believe mechanicals are less frustrating to a new archer when it comes to accuracy."

Charles,

Truer words were never spoken........ this is also a reason why mechanicals are still so popular and bowhunting has grown so dramatically. I guess this is a good thing if you make your living off selling archery equipment, however as a concientious hunter I would like to see more people hone their skills and take better shots on game that to get set up with a bow, sight it in with field tips, screw on some mechanicals and head to the woods. Sloppy hunters give the good ones a really bad rap. Gun only hunters don't realize this but a well placed arrow can cause a large animal to expire as quick as a well placed bullet.

My disagreement on the penetration is that while the Snyper is probably one of the sharpest and deepest penetrating mechanical heads on the market it's design still prevents it from going as deep as a good - low profile fixed 3 blade. The snyper is essentially a 4 blade head (2 swept blades and 2 small fixed that are duller than the other blades) with more surface area and more resistance than the 3 blade heads that I would use. There is also a certain amount of energy expended in opening the head's blades, thus taking away from penetration as well.

On deer this really isn't relevant because both heads would easily go through a deer broadside, especially with a 70 lbs 29 inch draw bow.