I watch a lot of the hunting shows on TV and it seems like a lot of the archery shots I see do not get good penetration. It seems that a lot of the shots have half of the arrow or more hanging out as the animal as it runs off. They always or at least show the shots that they find the animal...

Are they trying to shoot too light of an arrow?

Or too long of a distance...

Or to light of pull, or to big of broadheads. Most likely a combination of all of them. Shooting a 45lb bow (so they can hold it all day long until they get the camera shot they need) a light arrow and then a 2" Rage head does not equal good penetration!

Or the bow is not tuned just right.

They might not want to spend time tuning it. I notice on Bowhunter TV Curt Wells always seems to have good penetration.

I can't sit there long enough to get to the shot. I have yet to see a hunting or fishing show that was even remotely entertaining.

The tv shows show to much whitetail hunting. Very boring to me. I'd rather hunt a big mule deer buck or bull elk. To answer your question on the bow I shot an elk last year with my Hoyt crx35 long draw and it passed right through. Bow was set at 70pds.

I think reelman nailed it.

I shoot 65#, 265 fps with a fairly heavy arrow, and Muzzy broadheads. I usually kill 2-4 big game animal a year and can't remember the last "non" pass through.

I am amazed at how many shows leave the animal until morning. Seems like that is the accepted way of tracking these days. I think it has more to do with camera light than anything else. Makes me want to reach through the TV and strangle those guys. They must give the meat away because if they were planning on eating it they would do things different. Nasty.

Wait till morning around here and the Wolves get your kill.

I pretty much quit watching most hunting shows this past year, but nothing pissed me off more than this latest thing that most shows have come up with for a better picture/lighting (waiting until the next day for recovery)

Off topic of archery hunting, but I was watching Roger Raglin (spelling) a couple years ago. He was West River here in SD and shot a buck with his rifle. Deer dropped on the spot, but because of shooting light they waited until the next day to recover it.

Well, apparently they couldn't find the deer the following day. The kicker was, apparently later in the season they found the buck (what was left "antlers") and sent it to Roger and he was all thrilled to have recovered his deer. What a crock of chit.

Couldn't pay me to watch his crap TV after that.


Anyways, rant over...

Wait till morning for camera light and then haul the deer all around with the guts in so the pictures look better than if it was field dressed!

I know it's not bowhunting but the other thing on hunting shows that bothers me is ultra long range with rifles. I wonder how many shots they don't show on TV because they can't find the animal. When you are shooing at an animal 800yds+ away if it doesn't drop good luck even finding where the animal was standing to start looking for blood!

Last time I did that the coyotes ate everything except the bones and hide. Nothing left the next morning.

It was about 20+ years ago. It was a buddy of mine that took the shot. Not a good hit. I tracked it for him, after he had no luck, and I jumped the deer up 3 or 4 times. Finally went down in a swampy area and I figured it would have to wait until morning as we were late in the day. next day - zip.

Too much speed and to much expansion. Everyone is shooting these super fast bows light arrows and expanding broadheads. No different than shooting a deer with a 223 and varmint bullets. Speed does not always kill.

I know that a lot are not fans of him but look at Uncle Ted. He is shooting around 55 pounds average speed bow, not superlight arrows and standard two blade broadheads. Don't remember the last time I did not see one of his arrows zip right on through a critter of any size. Nor do I remember the last time I seen him do a next day recovery.

Mike, It's not only the light arrow that's doing it. I've shot light arrows (5gr/lb) for at least 15 years and have never had an arrow stop in a deer (except one staight down spine shot) and I've run everything from 1" 3 blade fixed to 2" 4 blade Rocket expandables. The last couple years I've been running a 300gr arrow at 59lbs. and it zips right through all the deer I shot with it with a 3 blade Muzzy on the end.

Not all expandables are equal either. Rage heads, that are so popular on TV shows, are terrible in regards to penetration due to their blunt tips.

Expandables SUCK!

nothing to do with draw weight. I shot thru may deer, cariboo bear shooting 180 fps with heavy arrow coc broadhead.

I know it it a combination of things. Nothing wrong with light arrows. Trouble is when they are combined with a poor head. The light arrow cannot overcome the shortfalls of the head in the penetration department. They deliver less energy and a huge amount of that energy is expended upon impact as the head opens up. You simple have to have enough energy behind the broadhead for it perform properly. Exapandables seem to have a very small window of arrow weight and speed that they will perform acceptable at, and a even smaller window they will perform exceptional in. Nearly any fixed blade will perform acceptable to exceptional with most any combination of arrow weight and speed.

The real issue on TV I think is the fact that the right combination is not often chosen. They have to go without ever combination is paying the bills. As with so many ugly things we see on outdoor TV it comes down to the advertisement and sponsorship dollars being the first and in some cases the only concern.

We can't shoot deer here in May, without a crop control permit! LOL

Expandables still SUCK.

I couldn't agree more!

I think too light of arrows and expandable junk heads result in very poor penetration. Simple enough.

you guys don't watch the same shows that i do because everyone i watch they get the perfect pass thru shot and the arrow is always found very easily. i'm always thinking that its to perfect on tv. i almost always have a hard time finding my arrow and its hardly ever any good if i find it. if you hit them bhind the shoulder it take very little draw weight to get a clean pass thru. i gave up on expandables a few years back but only because they weren't opening all the time.

ONLY? that is plenty enough reason to give up on them.

My Magnus COC heads open 100 per cent of the time

My Razor Tricks never close!

Zwickey Deltas and Rothaar Snuffers never have failed to open for me.

And lately the muzzy clone thats all the rage, I forget what they are, have worked really well for me.

Mechanicals SUCK. Maybe thats been said before... grins...

I love my Magnus Stingers. I sharpen those things up to a scary edge with full confidence that they will do what they are supposed to.

wow the title of this thread was VERY misleading

The problem is with the arrows they shoot. Eveyone is so hung up on speed they forget the thing that does the killing is the arrow weight and broadhead.

My 20 yr old hoyt magnatec will shoot a 480gr arrow at 270fps from one end of a deer to the other WITH AN EXPANDABLE broadhead. I pull 80pounds and I have killed more than a few whitetails where the Eastman First Strike broadhead cuts the front edge of the hind quarter and breaks the opposite front shoulder.

Out to 30yds there is no deer alive that should stop a proper arrow from going thru on a broadside shot. I have put the same arrow thru both shoulder blades at 25yds and deer and they die in seconds.

The greatest bowhunter alive today, Chuck Adams, says you should use at least a 400gr arrow for deer, and 500grs is better yet. I've always tried to hunt by those guidelines and had no issues. The idiots/experts on TV might want to start living by Chuck's guidlines too.

I'm with DMSBandit on this. I have shot 435gr arrows, two blade Rage, 286fps at 79lbs with Hoyt Ultratec and always complete pass through. Most taken from 20-40 yards. So many shooters are caught up with speed but cannot pull enough lbs to get a heavy arrow going to their "desired" speed. More weight going a little slower will achieve more energy.
This spring bought a Carbon Matrix, shooting same arrow 310fps at same lbs. Looking forward to many more pass throughs this fall.

that something i find helps,moving up to a 125grn broadhead instead of a 100grn . i'm shooting a crossbow these days and heavier broadhead flys way better. 3 blade muzzy works for me.

Tape and skip through everything without an animal it it.
Watching a show takes about 10 minutes max!


stumpy

you are right about that. nothing but advertising for stupid products.

stumpy I can't even take 10 minutes of that nonsense.

With all that heavy breathing and fist pumping after the shot, you would think these guys are having sex, or something. Stan Potts makes a jackass out of himself every time he shoots one.

Video Cameron Hanes on a DIY Public land elk or blacktail hunt and I will watch it. Till then no thanks I rather waste my time here on the fire.

I thinks it has a lot to do with the total arrow weight mostly. I drove a 2 bladed rage tipped Carbon express pile driver threw a does shoulder and ended up with a complete pass threw of the arrow. My Guardian is set at 70 pounds and 28 inch draw and my arrows are about 485 grains speed no sure never chronographed the bow. I believe in momentum not speed. This combo is like hitting a deer with a sledgehammer instead of a ballpein hammer.

Andrew

Old television just died. Will shoot it this weekend and see what kind of penetration I get. Do follow the heavier arrow thought process so expect a pass through.

I know several of the biggest names shoot about 50lb draws that are rather short and use rage heads and light arrows to get a flatter trajectory. All of it adds up to poor penetration. They will tell you it is better to leave the arrow in the deer to tear things up as they run, though. I guess you can justify it if you have to.

There isn't one show worth watching. DIY on public land is the rage now and I still think the shows are rigged.

I think these boys are shooting too far. They are in a time crunch and take bad shots be it too far, poor angle, alerted animal whatever. One of the few that I've seen get solid pass throughs is Nugent. He has a whole other world of issues though. I've only had one that didn't pass through and that was because I pulled the shot and hit solid shoulder on the off side. Still killed it but the arrow stayed in. I've been shooting recurve for the past fifteen years exclusively and have taken several head of WT. Nary a one has held the arrow. I run 65#'s at my draw length and I shoot heavy woods and heavy WF carbons. I don't shoot much past 25 yards either which is key. If you want to shoot past that wait til gun season.

Ditto, they take long and piss poor shots. All for the camera. Beats watching reality TV crap that my wife watches though

Wow here come the mech haters when given any excuse to bash. LOL! I don't know why some guys on TV get bad penetration. But most that I watch get good penetration.

I have been shooting a 384 grain arrow from a 70lb Mathews Q2 for about 12 or 13 years now. With my string decked out with a peep and silencers it's hurling that 384 grain goldtip at a whopping, immensely impressive, 264 fps. LOL! That translates to about 54 to 55 lbs of KE. Despite that rather mundane number I have had exactly 3 arrows fail to completely pass through a deer. All hit the offside shoulder bone. All 3 deer died within 70 yards anyway. Two of the heads were fixed heads and one was an expandable. Penetration was essentially the same with all three heads. Other than those 3 all my arrows have blown through and stuck in the ground. And that includes many expandable kills as well. Most recently with Grim Reapers. But then my bow is perfectly tuned and I typically hit where I aim. My experiences lead me to believe that if your bow is tuned and you can hit where you aim, deer will die irregardless of the head you use. I also think that arrow weight, as long it weighs enough to be safely shot from your bow, is overrated when it comes to whitetails. If you are in Africa hunting cape buffalo, then yeah, follow your guides recommendations about arrow weight. For whitetails? It does not take a helluva lot of penetration to kill whitetails.

If you are sticking whitetails behind the shoulder and not getting killing penetration then my first suggestion would be to scan your bow top to bottom. If you see the words Mattel or Playskool on it then return it to the store immediately and tell them that this time you would like a bow from the sporting goods section rather than the toy aisle. LOL!

I also firmly believe that the claims of "it didn't open" in regards to modern mech heads are almost entirely bull###t. Maybe entirely. I have shot numerous deer with about 6 different types of mech heads and fired numerous test shots into targets with at least 6 more types. I have never had one fail to open. Furthermore none of the many bow hunters I personally know have ever had one of any type fail to open in any circumstance (target or deer). And I know a lot of bow hunters. Yet you get these guys on the internet who lose a deer and of course the head didn't open. "I hit him perfect and lost him cause the head didn't open!!!" Well first of all even an unopened mech head though the boiler room would kill a deer. Second if you didn't find the deer how do you know where you hit him. Eyes play tricks. I have helped blood trail many "perfect hit" deer only to discover when we finally found him that the hit was,...not so perfect. Almost anything is possible so I cannot say that's it's impossible for a mech head to fail. (Hell, I've had fixed heads shatter apart in deer). But many take that admission that something is possible as a vindication they are right about mech heads being unreliable. No. Something can be possible and yet at the same time be completely improbable. You could walk out your front door tomorrow and be hit by a meteorite. Completely, entirely possible. But that possibility is so improbable that it's not worth worrying about.

I would prefer to be hit with a fast straw than a slow cro-bar.
Love those Pile Drivers!

I love them and will never change unless they stop making them and I will then stock pile the pile drivers.

I agree.

Todd, sounds like you have an excellent set-up on your bow and arrows giving complete pass through. I applaud you and all that use the right equipment, which can involve many variables in bows, arrows and broadheads.

Thing is, watch the TV shows and it will not be long until you see an arrow sticking half way out the side of a deer as it runs off????? Do they always hit the opposing shoulder? You are exactly right, put one in the boiler and it will kill the animal, eventually. Two holes and complete penetration will kill an animal the quickest. Everyone understands this, not trying to teach the teachers. Just watch the shows and "see" the lack of penetration and the repeated evidence of "we will come back later and retrieve the animal". UNBELIEVABLE!

+1.

Coyotes get all our deer left overnight and some left for a short time during the day!

stumpy

i dont think there is any penitration differances in fixed and mechs but i dont like the idea of mechs just cuz im a student of the KISS method. im a muzzy man and have been since i was a little kid, mosty cuz thats what dad used. they simply work. i think of them as the nosler pt of broadheads. ive never had an arrow stick in a deer not even when i was a kid. i used to shoot heavy xx78 2216 w/ 125 muzzy 3 blade from my hoyt tenacity and always got complete pass threws w/ that bow set at 56# lol. last year i shot a deer w/ a 360gr arrow w/ 100gr muzzy in the right front shulder and it exited the left rear hind quarter and burried in a stump about 2 or 3 inches. i was def impressed. for me most important thing would be a sharp broad head morseo then arrow weight, bow speed or make/model of broadhead.

I shoot 59lbs, 356 grains @ 28.5 inches going 305fps with a big grim reaper, and have had NO PROBLEM with pass throughs or fail to opens, to each his own though.

Yes, because they are all wrapped up in speed!