Anybody shot one yet? I'm looking forward to it. In my book, quite and smooth trumps speed all day long.

Hey, thats probably why I still hvae a round wheel PSE... LOL.

Newest bow is a brackenbury. LOL. No cams on that one either.

Yes, they are smooth, dead in the hand, and the feel of a cam is there, but reduced.

I'm not an engineer, so this is in blue collar terms...

Basically, the small cam is now in the inside of the large wheel, and the wheel is used like a lever to drive the cam on the draw. To me, this does make the draw smoother as the lever action of the larger wheel is less severe of a break-over than the straight large cam and idler wheel.

On the release, the cam is used to drive the outer round wheel faster and the speed is gained by speeding up the large wheel.

Make sense? Hopefully the engineers can put it in better terms.

The bow is very vertical, the riser is very straight from what we have seen over the past ten years, and does balance well, better than I expected. It feels closer to the Monster than anything else I've shot.

It was very, very quiet, quieter than anything else I shoot at the moment.

While I liked it, it's not on the must have list for 2015. I got burned on the Reezen line, so I'll wait and see what the design does for a while.

I prefer to have both smooth and fast . Along with quiet, shooability, dead in hand and tack driving accurate.

Well it's a little slower but shootability trumps all. Us trad geeks have known it for years...maybe the compound world is catching up.

Mathews 'could' produce the worlds fastest compound without a doubt, but they choose not to because they know those bows are train wrecks in the field.

A bit OT here, but a valid question.

I"m not going to argue that speed is good if it can be quiet and manageable, but how much difference does X amount of speed really make?

You will never come close to being super sonic, so there will always be noise to give away whats happened, and time to try to move.

Ever watch the deer when a bird swoops in or a hawk or such.

I used to think that 180-200 was just about to slow. If you could gain a bit on that its a better deal, but in reality how many FPS makes what? difference?

Drop wise doesn't matter anymore, we have rangefinders for those that feel comfortable beyond the close range only shots I feel comfortable with.

On a good custom recurve, and I don't have a clue what my speeds were/are at all, there seemed to be a realistic difference running a full on cedar shaft and head vs a carbon shaft and same head.

Granted the carbon was lighter AND smaller in diameter so had to to be faster. By ear, impact was quicker. And the key there, it seemed to make a difference, IE you could hit where you should instead of the deer moving.

I'd be curious to what others think.

I had a fast bow, supposedly 280ish IIRC many moons ago when cams were big and new, shot with light arrows. But sounded like a 22 going off so it was of no use. Obviously the noise gets there before the arrow, but where is the magical mark?

With the way I hunt, I'm not nearly as worried about shooting 40 yards, as I am putting an arrow though a 3" hole in the brush at 20 yards. As you know so well, string jump is a huge problem here, so the sound of the bow is a huge issue. I'm with you on the trad stuff of course...but I like to eat deer too.

Obsession bows. Whisper quiet. Extremely accurate. Lightening fast. You can haverify your cake and eat it too.

I am not knocking Obsession bows but what exactly does "Extremely accurate" mean and by what measure is it judged?

As far as I am aware Obsession has never been on the podium of a major shoot. I understand you are a dealer and want to talk up the bows.

As for the No Cam it was ok but didn't impress me.

I don't mind playing around with release bows, but I much prefer shooting fingers. So the only true Finger bow out there right now is Hoyt. I don't see that changing anytime soon either.

Might want to check out the second leg of this year's IBO triple crown. There was an Evolution on the podium

MCH, Obsession has "changed the rules" so to speak with their bows. It has always been said short BH bows aren't accurate. Or forgiving. And speed bows have to be loud. And the list goes on. But that isn't the case. Their bows, even the 6" BH bows are super forgiving. They are dead in the hand. They are whisper quiet. Buttery smooth on the draw. I have owned quite a few bows thru the years. Some I really liked. And shot extremely well. But when I bought my Evolution earlier this year, I found I could shoot it better than any bow i ever owned. Better accuracy at long distance. Super simple to tune. Had this bow bareshaft tuned in just a few quick shots. The back wall on these bows is rock solid. Letoff is great. Valley is plenty big. They are unlike anything else on the market. Their new target bow will turn heads this coming year. I see the battle for top spot being between them and Hoyt. The other manufacturers just don't bring enough to the table.

LT 280 and others...

If a person was to buy a new wheel bow, what would be the minimum speed one would look for?

One of these years I need to move up.

I am finally able to draw my compound and shoot it a bit though its very uncomfortable. For my hunting my old PSE will be fine but you never know when I might get an archery chance again and I doubt I'll ever be able to shoot my brack again unfortunately.

I shot at an indoor range yesterday and the guy next to me was shooting one. It was super quiet.
They don't make it in 31" draw so a no go for me.

Obsession Phoenix would be a very good bow to look at. The draw is super smooth. Lots of guys feel the "need" to go to 80# limbs on this bow because of the ease with which it draws. It smoothly drops off into a rather nice valley. Letoff runs around 83-85% which means very minimal effort required to hold at full draw.

Thats good to know.

While I shot a 94 pound bow at one time in my life, 80 will never happen again.

I'd think 60 might be all I could ever safely do. That will have to suffice.

The Phoenix on 60# will be more than adequate. And a pleasure to shoot

Rost495,

Shoot any bow you want in 60lbs and pick the one you like, it'll kill things all day long the same as a 70-90lb bow. Just make sure those broadheads are scary sharp!

I'm sure Obsession is the answer to all of archery's problems, but I would suggest you try as many bows out as possible and pick the one that feels right to you.

Around 250fps seems to be just right (for me), but I like heavy arrows. Again, I'll take quite over fast any day. While I practice at 60 yards almost every day, it is only to make the 20 yard shots a chip shot. As you know too well, our deer won't be there when you shot at them farther than that, and 100fps doesn't help.

I suppose you are right if you consider 3D target archery. I don't its all about judging yardage. Nothing at all wrong with that just not actual Target archery.

I have shot a few Obsession's and to be totally honest I wasn't that impressed. You can claim their bows are game changers but they haven't changed anything yet.

Like I said I have nothing against them or their bows. I just don't see any advantage their bows offer.

This is the winning answer. 100% hit it on the head. The only time I offer specific bows if I know they are going to shoot fingers.

Well...I just put in my order at the local pro-shop. I'll give you guys a review when it comes in.

Good deal Pat!

Thanks for explaining that . The local dealer does not have one and I was wondering

What are the specific bows for finger shooters now? 30"-31" draw/60lbmax ? Right hand. Don't need the latest/greatest, recent mfg. years ok, hopefully with a proven track record of reliability.
Thanks

Reflex Caribou if you can find one. Hoyt Vantage LTD, now called the Tribute. All can be had in 50lb to 60lb and 60lb to 70lb.

45" Axle to Axle is perfect for fingers. I wouldn't go shorter then 43" axle to axle. We have similar draw lenghts so this is coming from experience.

For guys with shorter draw lengths they can get away with an Axle to Axle around 40" give or take.

What do you think of the Oneida's for finger shooting. I'm playing with that idea.

Some guys say they're the best, some say they're the worst due to the string angle at full draw.

I have had 2 Oneida bows in the past...I loved shooting them, they were a bit noisy. They then changed ownership and redesigned the camming system. I only shot fingers with them and they were great for that purpose.

They have been a bad design from day one. They were fast in their day but loud as hell. I see no advantage to them and they have never been proven in target archery.

They had their followers but I can't see how they could keep that following in today's archery market. To many other really good bows out there.

I just sold 2 of the best finger bows ever built. A Hoyt Aspen Contender w/ Command Cams 50-60#, and a Hoyt Protec w/LX Pro limbs and accu-wheels......back to the OP, I shot one of the new Mathews - it shot nice but had a few quirks. The draw curve is further from the front like most newer bows and made it feel strange. The little plastic tube to keep the cables from wearing on the cam is a terrible design oversight. I wonder what a little dust in the inner rotating cam will do? Seems like a gimic and think I'll pass.

That inner rotating cam is basically their AVS system borrowed from the Monster/Chill bows. Have never personally witnessed any issues with it.

I'm sure you're not biased

Not at all. Have shot the No Cam. It's a step back for Mathews. The local dealer has a shop full of them. Folks come in, shoot them, and hang them right back on the shelf. Then just shake their head and walk out. For the Mathews fanboys the truth hurts. The No Cam has been a No Go around here. And this has been Mathews territory for years. Guys buying a new bow every year. Not this time

Been shooting Hoyt since 2006. I have shot every new bow in their lineup, and they were all great. But.....I ordered the No Cam HTR.
Just enjoyed shooting it. Great draw, great backwall, great through the shot.
I wanted to test an Obsession but no dealers very close. So i decided to make the switch from Hoyt to Mathews.

It's different in different parts of the country I guess. I'm not exactly a "fan" of Mathews. I tune lots of their bows and have had no issues. But if I had to pick a fav from their current offerings the no cam wouldnt even be in the running. I'd go chill r with 75% mods

I wouldn't buy the No Cam even if I liked it for the simple fact that you know they are going to improve on it ... there's plenty of room for improvement with it for sure. I predict a No Cam in the near future with a bit shorter length and maybe 20 or 25 fps faster. That will be much needed if the concept is going to survive.

Ricky, that aint gonna happen

Well, I'm excited anyway. I haven't bought a new bow since 2004 and the first No Cams (other than the one demo per zip code) were shipped this week. Picking mine up tomorrow.

if it trips your trigger, Pat thats all that matters. Im sure Ill have one come thru for strings and a tune at some point. Be curious to see just how much I can get out of one with quality threads on it

I'll find out. You can't tell anything about a bow unless you shoot it hard for a little while. I've always got the old Robertson.

Good deal Pat can't wait to here your thoughts on it after you log some time flinging arrows

Well, I've only had the bow a day, but I can tell you already what Mathews got right with this one..."shootability". Everything about it is smooth. Easy to draw, easy to hold, easy to let down, stabile and quieter than any bow I've ever shot. I haven't chonographed it, and probably won't, as speed doesn't mean anything to me. I can tell you that it is faster than my solocam Drenalin by about 8" at 40 yards, because I used the same sight and sighted it in initially with the twenty yard pin.

As you can probably tell, I don't like anything radical with my bows, because that always equates to something "critical". It may just be me, but I'm glad to see Mathews getting out of the speed game and listening to what real hunters want.

For Christmas, I gave my nephew a fitting from Cabela's for a bow. I think this is the way he wants to go, which means I'll get to try her out as well.

Sound great so far Pat!

FYI...270fps with a 465grn arrow at 28" draw @ 70lbs. I normally like to shoot 245-250, so I may go up a little in arrow weight.

That's plenty fast enough for that weight set up.
I think My Helium is shooting low 280's with a 400 gr arrow

My Helium is quiet curious to see and hear how quiet the No Cam is ,bet it's just a soft whisper

The reviews on this bow have generally been pretty stellar.

What's their price range for mid-to-high quality?
Thanks

A new No Cam HTR will run a cool grand, undressed. I would never have bought a new bow (of any kind) if it weren't for the new design. It's like shooting one of the old 80's wheel bows, except half as short, twice as fast and quite. It is NOT for the guy that has to have the fastest bow at the range, so you probably won't see much target use.

This bow has no hand shock, or torque, at release. Where you aim is where it goes. I have found one thing I am not happy with. When the bow finally "breaks" at the end of the draw cycle, it is difficult not to make a "clunk" when you hit the wall. This is with 85% let off. The bow takes modules for 65%/75%/85%, so I suspect the tendency would be less with the lower let offs.

Any updates? I've been looking at all the videos on YouTube, and they are just about all positive. I love new technology, but it will take a lot for me to give up the Bowtech Experience for the No cam.

I guess the 2016s come out in January?

Ditching a Bowtech Experience for a Mathews no cam is several steps in the wrong direction.

the only "no cam" bow is a recurve - these are cams, just different looking...

have shot it. Would not give up my Z7 for one. I shoot it too well. I am also of the mindset that the technology is new and need to wait to see what they will be like next year... I'm sure they will be different, in a manner to sell more bows.

Actually they are ROUND WHEELS. Axle straight thru the center. The AVS system...where the cable attaches is off center. Thus giving the bow it's power.

you want smooth and quite , then buy yourself a Longbow

A Mathews I would own.

I saw a kid with one at the range this week. I personally don't have any issues with Mathews EXCEPT I won't purchase a bow that I can't test shoot first. Since Mathews are module specific, no of the pro shops around here carry the right module for my 26.5 inch DL. The guys at Archery Headquarters said they would order the module WHEN I purchased the bow. I email Mathews to find out what pro shop they recommend that could help me, they said Archery Headquarters.

I've run into the same issue with the Bear Agenda (Bears pro-line of bows). The Bear rep was at the shop, and when I asked if I could test shoot the bow, he asked me what about the bow do you want to know. When I email Bear, they said they were sorry they couldn't help me.

PSE (based out of Tucson) has a pro shop that will let me shoot any bow they make and every pro shop I've been in, including Archery HQ, will let me shoot a PSE.

Arizona Archery Club will setup and let me test shoot a no-cam.

Oh and the guys at Ross are pretty cool as well.

I'll let you shoot any module adjust Obsession bow you want. I have mods for every offered DL. Louisiana is however quite a trip from where you're at. But the invitation nonetheless is open

Now THAT is what I call customer service ... Are you paying attention Archery Headquarters Chandler AZ?

Thank you sir

Stopped by Archery Headquarters at lunch today (they are down the street from my office). All new staff working there. Much better experience. So I am taking back what I said. Lanes were packed so I may have to suck it up and shoot outside in the 104+ heat.