I'm not posting this to start any chit. I'm strictly a trad guy but I hunt with guys that use compounds and x-bows. Other than some good natured ribbing about shooting with training wheels vs recycled Christmas trees, it's all good. I just thought the article was enlightening about the current decline in bowhunting. I gun hunt Ohio and this article confirmed one hunch I had about that states bow season. Wondering what others think about it.

Bow vs Crossbow

Sure doesn't seem to be the case here in So. Idaho. Crossbow hunters are not allowed in the archery season unless they are handicapped. Crossbows can be used in any of the short range weapon or rifle hunts. Even with the exclusion of crossbows in archery seasons there are more bowhunters than ever.

I try to avoid the whole bow vs. crossbow debate. Frankly, I think it's personal preference. Someone out hunting on opening day with their crossbow does not affect me one bit in my stand with my compound. But again, that's just my opinion.

I will say that bow companies have pretty much priced themselves out of existence. My buddy owns an archery shop, so I get to see all the new bows when they come in. I am flabbergasted at the prices. They're frankly quite ridiculous, even some of the "entry level" bows. I think a lot of guys like myself just decide it's not worth it to upgrade, when the bow you have works just fine. In my case, I shoot a older Matthews LX I bought new in 2006, when the prices were still within the reach of the average working man.

Every year, I keep telling myself I am going to take a step back and pick up a recurve, I just haven't yet.

I believe hunting numbers are down across the board for a multitude of reasons. Cost. Lack of available hunting land. Changing culture. A lack of time. Etc.

I read the article in the magazine and agree mostly. Somethings that have changed are unquantifiable. Bow season (at least in the areas I’ve hunted) used to mean no one else in the woods except for hardcore hunters. Now it seems that archery season resembles gun season culture. A much more relaxed group of hunters in the woods. Still not the crazy hordes of hunters I see during gun season, but considerably more than before crossbows were legal. Not necessarily saying it’s a bad thing, just changes I have observed. When hunting our land in WV it doesn’t really affect me at all but when I’m on public land in WV or NC I do have to plan for a backup spot more often than in previous years. It does worry me though that this could end up requiring reduced harvests during archery season. In NC not so much, as you get 6 tags valid for any season, but in WV the tags are allocated by season/weapon and I like spending as much time as I can in a tree with a bow.

I will say, archery companies aren’t helping themselves. Crossbows are becoming cheaper and compounds seem to just keep going up. I wanted to upgrade my 2010 Bowtech Sniper but can’t justify it. Even for an entry level bow. A lot of local bow shops around us have been put out of business.

I'll be out this last weekend of deer season, with my 1991 Blackwidow HS.

FWIW my local pro shop said X bow was 50% of their sales this yr.
Was maybe 25% the year before.
They are gonna cut way back on vertical bows this yr,
Big program orders aint happening.
Be interesting to listen to the folks at the ATA show.

I have several coworkers that have went to crossbows, and their success rate has gone up harvesting deer. I am not against them , I have a problematic lower back and may have to go to one eventually. But there is no denying that it is easier to take a deer with one, not having to draw the cross bow is a tremendous advantage.

We did it to ourselves. Archery and muzzle loading used to be called primitive weapon seasons. Technology we bought into changed all that. 40 yards was a long shot ,even with a compound. Now guys brag about 80 yard shots on game. 100 yards used to be the outer limits of effectiveness with the old side lock muzzle loaders. Now we are looking at 200 yards plus with sabots, in lines and modern scopes. Whats the point? Might as well use the old 06. Here in SE Idaho it seems people cant wipe their own ass without having a 4 wheeler or side by side with them. My 2cents

THIS


crossbows be limited to firearms seasons only.

… and the disabled or senior archery hunters.
And those rules should be clear and specific.

I look at bowhunting as a challenge.
Older and more busted up............that challenge has increased.
Hunting ground not as good............just added more.
Don't shoot 3D or indoors anymore, partly due to injuries.
But I can shoot enough to be solid in hunting, in my backyard.
And when I go to the woods..........I have my recurve.
Just makes success that much sweeter.

It aint about taking the easiest way.
Not for me anyway.
If somebody wants to run an X bow and it's legal, so be it.
The only grip I have about that is when they call themselves bowhunters.
Esp old farts with toupee's trying to act like they're still 30 yrs old.

Might have been a bowhunter, now is an xbow hunter.
Just admit it.
And some won't.
Or course they were anti X bow for macho reasons alone, before they had to go to them, and now it's suddenly OK because they're "still bowhunters".

I have been against X bows because most people suck.
Aint nothing fore free and increased harvest will affect the season.
If the DNR folks don't modify the archery season due to X bow success........then there's manufactuers and shops closing due to reg bow sales slumping.
Or the guys around you hunting are whacking more deer.
Aint nothing ever for free.

The old bowhunting days, which were pretty good in my area about 20 yrs ago.........are gone.
For a variety of reasons.
IMHO X bows aint helping.

I am old enough to remember when Pete Shepley, Pres.of PSE introduced the first practical compound crossbow. Bear Archery followed a year later with their own compound crossbow. I had a friend who was a PSE rep at the time and was able to shoot the Crossfire crossbow. The crossbow was very accurate and extremely noisy, The bows hollow body frame was like an echo chamber. The traditional bow hunters along with traditional stick bow shooters were outraged a crossbow could change the sport of bowhunting. The arrival of a suitable crossbow and its use in the woods eventually died out. The marketplace nor DNR/Game departments were just ready to tackle the issue and use of the crossbow.

So what has changed?? The aging baby boomers have made the crossbow what it is today in conjunction with changes in game laws to allow the use a field. In my own state of Maryland, the DNR established a 2 week crossbow season to allow it's use during the regular bow season of October/November. So who took advantage of this new 2 week season? An easy answer, former bowhunters who lacked the time for traditional compound bow practice and more importantly having a crossbow season gave an opportunity to those who had not bow hunted before to now hunt. Now Md regulations allow crossbow use throughout the entire bow season from September to the end of January. As an example when the first 2-week crossbow season was established Bass Pro Shop outside Baltimore was selling about 46 crossbows per week.

The crossbow is out of the bow and very much doubt the X-bow is going back into a box.....it is here to stay.

The archery Industry has to blame someone or something for the industry's downturn. 2018 was either the 3rd or 4th year in a row of declining sales. The industry is facing a cleansing of bow manufacturers as all industry's do at some point. Likely 5 to 10 bow manufacturers will still be around three to five years from now. The issue facing all manufacturers of hunting tools is declining participation along with negative recruitment. The high cost ($1,000 +) of outfitting a new Compound Bow has not helped sell more or new bows. Bow technology has essentially peaked, the days of serious bowhunters buying the newest latest bow
like they did in the early 2000's is over. The gun industry has managed to create new rifle sales with $399.00 rifles with 1 MOA guarantees. The archery industry needs to do the same....or ELSE.

As an example, muzzleloading peaked in 2007/ 2008 or about a year after Smith and Wesson bought Thompson Center Arms. " Opps for S&W." The closed breech muzzleloading technology peaked and so did the i markets ability to absorb new muzzleloading rifles.

In Wisconsin , deer crossbow sales were up about 5,000 tags, regular bow sales were down 12,000 and gun sales were down about 14,000 tags. The only tags going up are crossbow but regular bow is declining even more. It is a good/ bad thing. Wisconsin was over run with deer hunters. That is changing and it is easily noticeable that there re less hunters in the woods. Northenr WIs. deer hunter numbers are down about 75%, and by the third day , there are almost no hunters on the public lands.. There are almost no bowhunters up there and the ones that do shoot a deer with a bow, there is a 90% chance it was done over bait.

Lots of bowhunters in my area. Some IBO winners too.
Older and or injured, more and more going to X bow (now that its considered reg archery gear for deer hunting).
Some gun hunters that never bowhunted have gone X bow.
Some that piddled w reg bow want the X bow to make it easier.

Coworker and brother are buying two new Ravins next month. Big money, and they aint trophy hunters.

Local pro shop has cut way back on new compound and new X bow stock.
Buddy that works there says both markets have changed quite a bit.

Somebody needs to make a 500 dollar X bow that's not junk.

Most of us on lease bow hunt, one guy has a crossbow. He gets a lot of cshit for it.

I have two long bows and wooden arrows. that is probably all I will ever have..

Hunter numbers going down, so i can see why state game commissions are interested in anything to help sell tags. i gave up my compound a decade ago and went to a recurve. i appreciate the simplicity, and not chasing performance every year with the latest trends in compounds... no interest at all in a crossbow, but many hunters i know have migrated to them... too easy in my opinion. i'd like to see separate seasons for crossbow hunters... give traditional hunters a two week head start, then add compound, then two weeks later add cross bow...

Gentlemen, the decline of hunters is primarily about accessible property to hunt. Costs have driven many former hunters out of hunting which prevents them taking their kids and introducing them to hunting which is why hunter numbers will continue to decline and not recover. A contributing factor is changed forest management practices in the National Forests where I live which have seriously contributed to the decline in the deer population - just not as many to hunt.

I don’t bow hunt and other than playing with it in high school never did. For me, hunting is with a rifle. IF I were going to consider bow hunting I ‘might’ think about a crossbow but as to recurves and compounds - forget it. Shots are few, ranges are close because it’s thick and when a shot presents itself I want the best tool for the job which frankly isn’t a bow of any kind. Primitive firearms aren’t bad as you really only get one shot anyway but while bows are great killers when the broad head lands where it’s supposed to it’s far more productive to save limited vacation time for when you can take a weapon that isn’t a handicap.

Lots to be said for the feeling one gets from getting close, and connecting in a traditional way.

A guy like gldprimr will never understand, and that is ok.

MontanaCreekHunter...May I ask where you live? I assume somewhere around Florence by the zip code.

I grew up on Kootenai Creek.

Right off East Side Hwy make a left on the rotary to Woodchuck.

Gotcha. I know a few folks that live up there, just off the 8 mile road.

This is a little old, but I thought I would chime in. I started bowhunting when I was 15, and continued hunting with a bow with a break here and there due to military service. When I lived in AR and MT, I mainly bowhunted. I always went out gun hunting, but bow was my favorite. My last two years in AR before moving to AK, I still bowhunted, but not as much. At the time my oldest son was starting to hunt with me, so we gun hunted a lot. After moving to AK and him still hunting with me, I haven't bowhunted in 7 seasons now. One reason, is I can't get my oldest to bowhunt, and my youngest won't hunt at all with me. Since I retired last year and took work out of country for a year, I've been wanting to start bowhunting again. I have a friend that took it up two years ago and loves it. My oldest is now in college and just joined the Army Guard, so no hunting for him until next year when he's back from AIT. I have lots of opportunities to hunt around the house with a bow for moose and bear, plus going up to the North Slope for caribou since I didn't draw any tags for the season. I get back home for good late July/early August. I have plenty of time to kill, so I am going to take the bowhunter's ed. that AK requires and schedule a shoot for when I get back home. I also want to start shooting competitively again.

As far as the article, yeah I would say hunters numbers are falling quickly across the US. I have never understood the argument for box vs, crossbow as long as they are legal, I say go for it. I saw my dad shoot a crossbow the last two years he was alive when I was a teenager. He saw my interest in bowhunting and he rekindled his interest of bowhunting, but had to go from recurve to crossbow due to bad shoulders. I just know the crossbow allowed my dad and I to spend quite a few more days in the deer woods together, that we other wise would not have had before he died way too early.

I'm also late to the conversation. I am not a bow hunter at this time. I won a $600 bow package from BP about 3 years ago. But due to a shoulder injury have not had the practice time to become proficient. May perhaps try it this coming season with an OTC license.



I believe the issues are complex, including recruitment, cost for hunting, equipment cost, etc.

1) Unless you are blessed with a large mount of public land, the cost of hunting is becoming,if not already, prohibitive.

2) Beginning with NAFT and the heavy handed eco regulations the vast underbelly of the American middle class, manufacturing, was eviscerated. The graduating college grad today is not rolling in cash. A recent article I saw states that the average new grad is going to make ~49k. College debt coupled with today's housing costs does not leave much disposable income for $1k bows. $300 bows may help.

3) I agree that the bow industry has put all of its eggs into the revolving bow strategy. They are making very small incremental changes at an exponentially increasing cost. Looking at the specs of my raffle bow, I can hardly justify spending $1k to up grade, especially since that used bow is practically worthless but works quite well.

4) Some of the romance of bow hunting is the quiet, solitude, challenge, and the longer hunting seasons, but in many places the woods are getting over crowded with bow hunters (according to CPW here in CO). In CO xbows are not legal in the archery season.

Primitive weapons?
Muzzle loaders with sabots and 12x scopes are effective 200 yards plus. I have a friend that has a muzzle loader that’s plenty accurate 300 plus yards.
X bows with scope, buy one at your pro shop the day before season, sight it in and you’re good out to 50 plus the next morning.

If I was in charge-

Muzzle loader season would be iron sights and lead projectiles
Scoped muzzle loaders and sabot bullets, hunt in firearms season

Archery would be hand (drawn) held bows and legitimate handicapped could use cross bows
Non handicap cross bows hunt in any firearms season.

But I’m not in charge.

i started bowhunting and target archery before the compound bow was invented,so we hunted with longbows and recurve bows,i prefer the longbow at that time. but when Mr. Allen invented the compound, i purchased a Allen compound bow that bow only had 20 % letoff and we thought boy we really had a special new bow.then ,Tom Jennings improved the compound bow and many other compound bow companies started too,recurve bows and longbows went very cheap then ,i should have purchased a truck load of tradition bows and gear then. Now the x-bow debate is here and some hunters want the easier way . i am not sure what the future road of archery is going to do ? at 65 years of age archery has been a great sport for me and my family ,i am teaching my grandkids with a recurve first ,then a compound , grandkids will have to decide if they want to draw and shoot a bow or use a x-bow ? the world is changing fast i just hope we all agree that what ever you decide to use rather its traditional,compound or x-bow we gotta stick together otherwise our youth will never have the joy in the world of archery rather its hunting ,fishing or target shooting . some of the best whitetail deer hunters i know hunt only with a drawn bow and are not very healthy anymore but most have never given up yet with their bow , a few now use a x-bow but wish they still could draw that old bow back yet. myself yes i still draw a bow " lower poundage" but the day is coming i will have to decide rather i use a x-bow or just quit my shoulders both have been operated on and my shoulders are longer healthy either,300 50 x`s are not my scores anymore with a compound bow . what i learned bowhunting now over 55 years made me a better woodsman and a hunter ,books will not teach that,time in the woods bowhunting will. hope you all have many safe joyful years in the world of archery,Pete53

Sounds Legit to me.

I don't think out west the crossbow is that beneficial, unless on stand.

The thing that really buggers it up is the 4 wheelers going around and around where they ain't supposed too.

Yeah this year was an eye opener for us. We went to a late season whitetail hunt here in BC. We set up stands and hiked into our stands every morning the thing that blew us away was the amount of people we saw just driving around on there atvs with a xbow strapped on the gun rack.

I started deer hunting with a fiberglass longbow and a percussion half stock. I remember my Bear dealers surprise when Bear brought out a compound. I stayed with that cap gun until I got a rifled shotgun. Still use it for ml season. Six years ago i had fusion surgery, developed a spine infection and lost 90% of the strength in my legs, any flexibility in my back and a lot of arm strength. Lots of therapy brought me up to 50# pull on a compound which I now use. I bought a x bow and sometimes take it out during gun season.
Fourteen years ago I bought some land so we and our kids and grandkids would always have a place to hunt. Couple of nephews hunt there, too. Rules are simple. If you are disabled, you can use a crossbow. Otherwise, if it is legal, it is o.k.
We take five to eight fair chase deer a year.
Neighbors seem to have gone largely to in line muzzle loaders and crossbows but we don't. I used to really look down on the new stuff but now I figure that unless there is over killing we need to grow the sport. My family is helping. From a generation with two hunters, my family now has one senior, four next gen, and two grandkids in it so far.