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I haven't touched archery since I was a teenager with a 20 lb fiberglass recurve.

Kind of have the itch to get back into it. Looking at the Bear Grizzly, and Bear Montana Longbow. Probably 45 lb, give or take 5 lbs.

I'd like to hear any input, advice, opinions, experience you all may have to share.

Thanks, Shane
I have the Montana longbow. Mine shoots pretty smoothly. I mostly backyard shoot with it and it’s only been on a few hunts with me so I haven’t killed anything with it yet. I think it’s a great introductory longbow. I shoot home built cedar arrows and 150gr cut to the point broadheads. Plenty of penetration on a block target so I think it’ll blow right thru a deer. Mine is 50lbs. I found mine at a cabelas a few years back. I got to test fire it in the store do it made my decision easier. Good luck and have fun with it.
That sounds good. I'm kind of leaning toward the longbow. My use will be mostly backyard practice, but I'd like it to have enough azz to hunt with also.

Mostly I just want to enjoy working on mastering the discipline and technique with one bow.
Shane, I prefer recurves. Got any shops over there you can shoot both a bit?
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
That sounds good. I'm kind of leaning toward the longbow. My use will be mostly backyard practice, but I'd like it to have enough azz to hunt with also.

Mostly I just want to enjoy working on mastering the discipline and technique with one bow.


Longbow is much more challenging and fun to hunt with IMO.
With today’s technology, I feel like I’m almost cheating when hunting with a modern compound.

And as far as the longbow being enough to do the job properly, it’s been killing stuff for centuries. From bison to rabbits.

I will add that if I’m bow hunting any where, I’m packing a pistol for backup. And if I’m in black bear country, it’s a Glock 20 in 10mm. 🤠. I’d pack it just about anywhere except Alaska.
Originally Posted by Judman
Shane, I prefer recurves. Got any shops over there you can shoot both a bit?



I think Capital Sports in Helena has a pretty good archery lineup, and an indoor range.
I bet there is a local trad club. It would be great to get to shoot some different bows before spending much. I hate straight limbed longbows but like RD longbows and recurves.
I have hunted and killed deer with a recurve bow. Never shot a longbow. I have heard they are harder to master. I did enjoy shooting my recurves when I did it.
I have a #45 vintage Bear Grizzly, that's quite nice. You may want to get a #35-#40 bow to start out with, though.
Lots of good info here. Another option... I sent some Purple Heart and wenge to Omega Longbows. I had him make me an Imperial. 50# @28”. He makes a hell of a product for not much money. He built it within his stated timeframe and it’s flawless. I don’t have any photo sharing apps or I’d post a couple pics. Turned out really nice.


https://omegalongbows.webs.com/bowsandotherproducts.htm
longbow all the way. your draw will be cut several inches, think glove or 3 finger glove. G. Fred Asbell book on instinctive shooting is a outstanding !! have fun and don't shoot too much each day till you get built up to drawing the bow. you are going to have so much fun!!
Great info, I was looking at Omega earlier. His bows look like art. Really nice.

I have good upper body strength. Do a lot of pullups and bench press, and other upper body workout. I'm expecting the bow draw to be something my body will still need to build muscle memory with though.
Go recurve, as the cut past center riser does greatly aid in getting cleaner flight while building your skill.
Getting the right arrows/tip weight/spine/length is VERY important. Poundage is WAY secondary. Stay light!
Your pull up and bench muscles might help, but don't count on it.
I suck at both yet have shot 60# recurves and 80# compounds, for decades.

My buddy loves longbows.
I hate them.

Recurve all the way (as far as trad goes) and Blackwidow since '87.
My draw dropped from a max of 28.5" w fingers and wheels, to 28" w trad.
Less than an inch change.

Not inches.

But I shoot the same stance, kinda open.

If trad makes somebody's draw change over an inch, they were doing something funky.


Well I made a choice. Bear Montana Longbow is in the pipeline. I went 50 lb.

Thanks for all your input.
Nice, now your loggin!!!! The seasons you got over there, you'll have some fun!!
You're only an hour away from Bozeman. Next time you're down there, look up the fellas at RER bows. They build a static tipped Arroyo recurve that shoots fantastic. Here's mine when I first got it...(a while ago when I was shooting split finger)
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If you are set on a longbow, I can't recommend a finer bow than Allen Boice's Liberty Contender SE (get the yew cores). By far, the easiest and most comfortable shooting longbow I've ever shot.

If ya haven't shot in a while and you really want to get your form down, start with 30-35lbs and master technique. Then you can bump up the poundage. I'd also recommend getting a copy of Rick Welch's "Accuracy Factory" DVD and/or the "Masters of the Barebow" series (They all have great info, but Rick's style is more like mine and I have used it to win some local 3D shoots). If you can swing it, any instruction by top shooters is worth the time and money.

Glad you're coming back to the stick-n-string, it's a LOT of FUN!!!
Stump buster, those look really nice. I've got a Bear Montana Longbow ordered. I think that is a good starting point for me right now.

I'm going to put in some time with it before even thinking about a custom bow. I'm at the stage right now where I don't even know what I don't know. So I've jumped in and will start knocking the rust off my technique, and looking at a lot of tutorial resources.

When I was a teenager with my old fiberglass bow, that was a while ago, like in the 1970's....grin. Anyways, I'm pretty excited about getting back into archery.
Enjoy the ride!!!!!

Best tip I ever got...

"A little each day beats a lot by a mile! Keep sessions short, and when you can feel it, STOP!"
my son and i like Black Widow bows.
Jumping in a bit late here, but I've been shooting longbows and recurves most of my life and started building my own longbows a number of years ago. I prefer longbows but do shoot recurves better and developed a hybrid bow that (in my opinion) combines the best features of both the longbow and recurve. I haven't built any for a few years, but this is the last one I built that was for a friend of mine:

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I'm getting the bug to start building them again and have three new designs ready to start on...
If you want to give it a try without getting in too deep, order up a Samick takedown recurve from Amazon. The Koreans take their archery very seriously, and the Samick is pretty smooth and runs about $140, last I looked. Limb sets are about $75 if you want to go higher or lower. The same bow sold under an American label is about $100 more. Mine's 45lbs, and 64", about right for an old fat man who sold his 50lb Bear TD years ago. I'm using arrows originally bought for the Bear and the Montana LB my son used to have.
Pappy, I was looking at the Samick option, but kind of wanted a one-piece bow, so went that route.

JGray, that looks really nice.

I'm getting myself up to speed with things I've never heard of before...things like Spine, PPI, GPP, FOC. Lots to learn. with the 50 lb longbow and my longish arms, looks like I'll need about a 32" shaft, 400 spine, probably 150-200gr head.
One reason I like the Samick is th 64" length, which used to be hard to find. Don't know what's available now, really.

By all means follow your feeling. Archery is definitely an activity where individuality matters.
Your draw length will be shorter with that style of bow vs. a compound but you won't know your actual draw length until you have the bow in hand. For grins until the bow arrives, you can take a yard stick and hold it against your chest and reach both arms out until your finger tips meet and read that length-it will be close to your draw length. With ordering a 50 lb bow, that will be 50 lbs at a 28" draw and you will likely draw a bit further with your height/wing span. That bow will gain 3-4 lbs for every inch of draw past 28" and I expect you will be shooting closer to 55-60 lbs at your draw length. Assuming you're going to start with carbon shafts, 400 spine should be in the ball park and they should be 32" uncut. I'd leave them full length and play with tip weight to adjust spine to get them shooting good. If you decide to try wood shafts at some point, they're a bit more forgiving as to spine and have always been quieter shooting for me, though harder to come by good quality and are less durable.

I know we live fairly close and I have a lot of experience getting these bows set up and shooting. If you want to meet up, I'd be more than happy to get you started out on the right foot (or maybe left foot in your case grin).
I did the wingspan divided by 2.5 estimate. That came to 30.5"
JGray,

I appreciate the offer for help getting started. If I get really jammed-up on something i'll give you a shout. At the same time, I want to go through the 'journey' of learning and understating all the different things that go into this, on top of building the skill to put an arrow on target.

The bow will likely be along in a week or so, and I'm getting myself 'learned up' on a lot of the details regarding arrow selection.

Good stuff.
I haven't used that one before - just learned something! It comes up about 1/2" long with recurves and 1" to 1.5" long with longbows for me.
I saw a couple references to it using google-fu….grin. I came out 76" across, 30.5" draw.

Well if that is 1" to 1.5" long on the estimate for me, I guess that's not a problem.

As you said, I'm already worked out I should order 32" shaft arrows, so they can be tailored as needed.
Black Widow recurve here....love it
Those Black Widow bows look amazing. Wow.
Originally Posted by JGray
I know we live fairly close and I have a lot of experience getting these bows set up and shooting. If you want to meet up, I'd be more than happy to get you started out on the right foot (or maybe left foot in your case grin).


That's an offer I'd jump all over, even if it was just for a day when you first get your arrows! There's tons of help out there for the asking and I've found trad shooters to be the friendliest folks out there when it comes to sharing secrets and knowledge.

Another good bit of advice is shoot one arrow only, go get it and shoot it again. Your body will have time to recover from the previous shot (especially if you're starting heavy) and you'll improve faster by concentrating on each arrow fired without having that "Darn, well... I'll make up that shot with this next one" mentality. Your arrows will last a LOT longer too since they won't get slammed by any other arrows.

Nice Offer JG and Good Shooting MM!!!

Stump
That makes a lot of sense, starting out just using one arrow and taking it slow.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
At the same time, I want to go through the 'journey' of learning and understating all the different things that go into this, on top of building the skill to put an arrow on target.

I hear you on going through the 'journey' - I'd shot nothing but wood shafts up until a few years ago and it was much simpler then. For some reason, I decided I needed to figure out this whole carbon arrow thing and it really adds a whole new level of complexity regarding spine, point weight, FOC, bow tuning, how the sight window is cut (to center, past center, etc.) and on and on...
When I started bow hunting in the 1950's it was pretty much long bows, I can remember when the first recurve showed up at our club. I shot a long bow into the mid 1960's and then went to a Bear recurve. The recurve was lighter and more compact, I did a lot of still hunting so it was easier to sneak through the woods with the recurve. My dad stayed with the long bow for a long time, well after I left home and moved out of state. I'm getting back into bow hunting, I want to shoot some called coyotes with a bow. I have a compound now for coyotes but a recurve for bow fishing. The recurve is more accurate than the longbow in my opinion but for hunting I think it is more a personal choice. As a kid I put a lot of rabbits on the table with a long bow and blunts.
Recurves you can shoot with an open bow hand it is more like pointing at the target.

Long bow you gotta hold the bow and keep your wrist braced. I find it awkward.

Long bows tend to " stack" more and more hand shock.

But I have seen some impressive long bow shooting on T.V.

But I much prefer recurves.
50lb draw is a lot and too much to be starting out with. It is going to be tiring to shoot enough arrows for one. You are also going to increase the odds of starting bad habits. Not to mention that at your draw it is going to be over 50lb. The key to success with traditional archery is shooting a bunch of arrows daily. Actually that is the key to success with any type of bow, but a little more important with the trad gear. Swallow your pride and have them get you a 40lb draw.
Well I hope I didn't make a mistake going 50 lb.

I'm 6'3", 225 lbs. I can still nug out 100 pullups in about 30 minutes.

I don't really think a 50 lb bow is going to put my dick in the dirt. We'll see soon enough though, it's in the mail.
I shot 60 pounds, maybe more.

U will hopefully be fine.

If you can shoot accurately sitting down, sitting in 10 degree weather for 4 hours U b good!
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
...I can still nug out 100 pullups in about 30 minutes.

I don't really think a 50 lb bow is going to put my dick in the dirt...


Not to chit on another's post, but you'll be just fine. 17 pullups is the best I ever did on my USMC PFT and a lifetime later can do a handfull at best. I shoot 50-55 lb bows daily and actually struggle with bows below 50 lbs. Below that, there isn't enough string tension for me to get a clean release and I find 52-53 lbs to be a sweet spot.
Pull ups are not the same as pulling a bow everyday shooting 200 to 300 arrows a day. I was a 300 PFTer in the Corps and can still run a First Class PFT. I am 6'4" 260lb can still bangout 20 kipping pull-ups. I hunt with a 45lb Long Bow. Which at my draw length is a tad under 50lb. I have been slinging arrows since 7 years old. I see it everyday guys wanting to shoot heavy bows and never get good, or get to what they consider good. Which isn't good in reality. It's your money your life. But any good archery shop would order you another bow at a more suitable draw weight. Oh well either way enjoy and welcome to the world of Traditional Archery. When your grouping the size of a big tuna can @20 yards you are good. When you get it down to the size of a soda can you are doing great.
I appreciate all the input.

Like I said before, I'm kind of at the place where I don't know what I don't know. Trying to absorb some knowledge, but as they say, experience is the best teacher.

I saw MCH mentioning a Samick with two sets of limbs on another thread. If this 50 is a fail for a starter, I will adjust as needed.
MCH, I apologize if I came across a bit snarky last night and agree with you on pullups vs. shooting bows. The point I was trying to make is that I don't consider myself to have a lot of upper body strength and I easily manage bows in the 50-55 lb range. I'm 58 years young and have also been shooting stick bows my entire life which may have something to do with it. I've built numerous bows for folks either just starting out or switching from compounds and it does seem most want at least 55 lb bows which I agree is too much and try and talk them down to 50 lbs or so. My Dad starting shooting recurves with me years ago and he did very well with a 52 lb Howatt Hunter having never shot a bow in his life prior to that.

Most factory bows weigh on the heavy side of what they're marked to begin with. I think manufacturers weigh the finished bow and round down to the next 5 lb increment. Having built many laminated bows over the years, when I find myself in that situation I have no issues taking sandpaper to the glass and nock the weight down a bit. Montana Marine will likely be drawing over 55 lbs with his new bow which I agree with you is heavier than ideal to learn on. I'm anxious to hear how he does with it!
JGray I never took you as being snarky.

I have just seen way too many guys try to do too much too fast. No two bowyers feel and stack the same. I don't mind shooting a heavier bow if it is smooth stacking like a Dan Toelke. The problem is guys worry more about draw weight than form and the endurance to be able to shoot arrows. In my opinion you really should be shooting a minimum of 100 arrows a day. I tend to like to shoot twice a day once in the morning at early light and then again in the evening light. I try to shoot 200 to 300 arrows a day. I start on spot target then shoot the three 3D targets I have. So 100 to 150 arrows in the morning and 100 to 150 in the evening. A 40lb bow with the right arrow and broad head will cleanly and humanly kill an Elk. I think for guys just starting out the 45lb draw is the best place to be. Build the muscles, get good form, and build muscle memory. Once you have that then add weight as you feel needed. I have no doubts in my equipment killing anything I hunt at 48-1/2lb draw. I have a recurve that is 53lb and I don't mind it either.

You can watch guys shooting heavier draw bows and they collapse on every shot. That is sh_tty form and causes a lot of inconsistencies.

Edit: Something I almost forgot too! Guys shooting heavier draw weights string hand are very seldom relaxed and have a clean release. They are way to tense and their release is so heavy on the string. But these aren't things guys getting started know about or think about.
Montana Marine, I have a Bear Alaskan recurve ---63" , 40# double shelf wood and fiberglass bow that I could sell you real reasonable. It might be perfect for practice and decision making.

If you are interested, PM or e-mail me and we can talk about it.

I live in Columbus.

Ken
I tell you I have observed people in way better shape, and stronger than me can't handle a bow like I expect one to be handeled.

It is definitely a learned strength.

I started shooting a bow at six or seven, I am 55 now.

In really cold weather I shoot a weaker bow 4 sure. Tree stands also will limit ability to handle poundage.
Originally Posted by kennymauser
Montana Marine, I have a Bear Alaskan recurve ---63" , 40# double shelf wood and fiberglass bow that I could sell you real reasonable. It might be perfect for practice and decision making.

If you are interested, PM or e-mail me and we can talk about it.

I live in Columbus.

Ken



I'll keep that in mind depending on how things go.

Is your bow a left-hand?
Wait, double shelf probably means ambi?

I don't speak fluent archery yet.....grin
I shoot left handed, but this is not my bow originally and when I remembered I had it, I discovered it was ambidextrous, and could have been shooting it. I did some research on some of the archery forums and discovered that there was that model made in the Alaskan. I no longer shoot my bows, and just recently sold my self bow here on the forum.

Ken
Sounds like a nice bow. My aim is to practice and build some proficiency with a single bow.

If the 50 lb longbow is a little heavy, I'm sure I can train with it to build my endurance. After all, it is a form of resistance training. I'm no stranger to that.

I'm looking forward to getting the bow in, should be here tomorrow.
From what I've read, the old English longbows had a 100lb draw. Which seems amazing given that average height/size was smaller in the middle ages.
I've read some of the same about the English longbow. 100, even as high as 150. Effective range for military uses at the time, up to 400 yards. I imagine raining down arrows on formations of enemy. Wild stuff.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
I've read some of the same about the English longbow. 100, even as high as 150. Effective range for military uses at the time, up to 400 yards. I imagine raining down arrows on formations of enemy. Wild stuff.


Howard Hill shot a very heavy longbow even when he was older. I know he was shooting 150lbs when he was at his peak. I remember him saying it was so he would have a flatter trajectory on his trick shots.

You will likely be fine with 50 lbs. You will increase strength quickly. The thing to watch out for is getting sloppy form and bad habits while you are gaining strength in those specific muscles. Try to learn exactly what good form is and limit your practice to as many as you can shoot properly,not as many as you can shoot.
That's my plan, going in.
Do a bit of stretching before and after you shoot. I developed some elbow tendinitis that took forever to heal. I love watching the flight of an arrow and my shooting sessions tend to go on too long.
To help in not getting bad habits, I subscribed to a rule........two brain farts in a practice session and practice is over.

One can have fun in sloppy shooting, and therein lies the problem.

With no sights, one can corrupt form and other and still hit the target.
Funny, I can't see my arrows fly.
Not until maybe 30 yards or so.

Haven't seen any of them when shooting game,
Even on the 42 yard coyote.

3D I could see them arcing back down on the 45 yard shots (MBR stakes).
I shoot a white nock.

Under 30 yards at best on targets it's just a blur.

Guys indoors were shooting trad, let them try my bow. They were admiring it, saying it was pretty speedy and quiet (Blackwidow SA2 55#).
So I let em shoot it.

They couldn't believe how smooth it was, how little vibe, how fast......................and how they COULDNT SEE THE ARROW FLY.
Granted it was only 20 yards indoors...............but they could see their arrows "fly".

Told them paper tune had bullet holes. Not tears. And what they thought was normal arrow flight on their rigs was actually fishtail and or porpoise.

Lots of people shoot less than optimized systems.

Many are content to do so.
FWIW other people at 3D (compound guys) openly exclaimed their joy at watching my arrows.

Just thought that visible flight to be "so cool".

Off to the side I guess it's fun.

As a shooter it is, but only on longer shots where I can pick it up.

I never did hit the block target at 150 yards.
Came close though.

Novelty deal, just the owner and some regs..........after the shoot.
Good fun.
Overdid it at work. Am pretty sore today.
If no rain tomorrow flip a few from my 54# Blackwidow HS.
Less than 50 arrows.............and maybe even quite a bit less, if I have a couple of brain farts.

Is what it is, won't bother me whatever happens.

Due to injuries I have to ease into it.
I shoot white feathers and white nock. I can definitely see my arrows in flight. They seem to fly good but I never paper tuned it. I haven’t had enough time due to a busy life and selling my house. It’s on my list this summer.
We have an arrow-launcher in the house. No arrows yet, but that will soon be remedied.

Light, slim, strong. I'm drawing right at 30", so the 50becomes around 55 lb.

Man this feels sweet.


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I have a Predator recurve. after going traditional i can't go back to modern. like you say, it feels sweet.
I have a black Hoyt Dorado 45lb, which actually draws at just over 48lb. Nice looking bow, smooth, accurate, easy to shoot.

Also a Bear Outbreak, compound.
kind of interesting anchor point and glove. And ya look so happy. LOL
I still need to order some arrows and accessories.

Speaking of glove, what do you guys prefer between a proper glove and tab?




I don't know what to say about the face, my wife often asks me if I'm OK....lol.
The Black Widow Stick-Tite glove is what I've gone to after testing almost all of them (I modify them by cutting the ends off of the stalls so they are open ended).

BUT.... gloves/tabs are even more personal than bows/arrows.


CONGRAT's on the new stick!
It's rightful that I'd be considered a tainted source of opinion and information, but after 50 years of traditional bow hunting I find pleasure more and more from recurves. I've owned and hunted with many different bows - from simple straight-limbed longbows to hyper-modern recurves with aluminum risers and grips and sights and (yes!! releases) and love them all. Traditional archery spans a fairly broad swath of territory. Use what you like and enjoy it.

Moose hunting with bows is pretty hard to beat.
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Originally Posted by John_Havard
It's rightful that I'd be considered a tainted source of opinion and information,


Ha Ha... ya think John?!?!?

You're a BIG Reason my Dryad Orion will likely never be sold as long as I can pull a string!!! Great Pics and THANK YOU for your contributions to archery!!!
I like the calf haired gloves made by neet archery!
John Havard, thanks for sharing, great pics!
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[img]https://i.imgur.com/YPv7qLq.mp4[/img]
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
We have an arrow-launcher in the house. No arrows yet, but that will soon be remedied.

Light, slim, strong. I'm drawing right at 30", so the 50becomes around 55 lb.

Man this feels sweet.


[Linked Image]


You are collapsed and you have a non-repeatable anchor point. Get rid of that glove get yourself a tab.
Your grip is way too strong. Relax your bow hand. I can't see with that glove on but I have a pretty good educated guess your string hand is way to tense as well.
Thanks for the critique. I don't have any plans to shoot with that work glove, just wanted to see what 50 lbs feels like. I'll likely try both a tab and a real archery glove, to see what both are like.

I've been doing some practice drawing and holding, then drawing down. Trying to find the spot where bone support feels good. Working on relaxing the hands, engaging the upper back.

I know I have a long road ahead, but that is part of the attraction for me.

for many years i just used 2219 aluminum arrow ,3-5 inch helical feathers, my favorite broadhead was a Zwickey Eskimo 2 blade with bleeders that i hand sharpen. and to be honest i had better blood trails with this old Zwickey broadhead than any of the newer broadheads too,so 2 years ago i went back to using Zwickeys and killed a heck of a big 8 pt. too with a Zwickey broadhead with a great blood trail ! i still like using 2219 arrow shafts they may be heavy but are forgiving,don`t bend to easy and sure have enough power too slide thru an animal with a hand sharpened Zwickey broadhead .for me a tab in the cold weather worked better too .good luck,Pete53
https://www.3riversarchery.com

Go ahead and set up an account. They are the go to source for everything trad!!!!!!

I'm gonna highly recommend you use Traditional Only carbon arrows. They are very durable, and you will find plenty of practice opportunities by using good carbons with judo points or blunts when out and about stump shooting.

WTF???? I'm drawing the bow and holding, thinking about form, then gently drawing down.

Suddenly I have a takedown bow, and am bleeding from the melon. I didn't collapse.....the bow did.

It lasted 24 hours, and maybe 40 draws.

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Dang! Bear will want to know about that! Was that bow brand new or used?
Damn. That Sucks!!!
Brand spankin' new bow, from 3 Rivers Archery.
Surely they’ll replace that.
Yes. 3Rivers is the best. Let them help.

Bear has a one year warranty for original owner. Register it online, if 3Rivers did not do that already for you.
No stop wasting time and money with Bear. Get your money back and buy a locally made Dan Toelke Whip. Glad you are ok.
Dang - sorry to hear that and I'm sure 3 Rivers/Bear will make it right. The highest stressed portion in the limb is where it joins the riser and is the most common location for a failure. It's usually the lower limb that fails like that since it's usually stressed more than the upper limb. I've been studying your full draw pic and it does look like the upper limb is bending hard right off the end of the riser, whereas the lower limb appears to have a more gradual bend. That hard bend causes a stress concentration at that point and it appears the belly side lamination let go along the riser. It might be a combination of Bear not balancing the limbs correctly and a bad glue joint and the two together were too much.
I see what you are saying about the harder looking bend out of the top end of the riser.

I was just holding at full draw for two or three seconds when it just exploded.

I'll call 3Rivers on Monday and see what they will do for me.
This doesn't inspire any confidence in another Bear longbow. Kind of a buzzkill.
I hear you on the confidence thing - I've yet to have one come apart but have heard plenty of stories from others and that would have to rattle your cage a bit. I've also been told that any bow is 90% broken at full draw - they do get stressed severely every time they're drawn.
I'm drawing a bit further than average too. That probably adds more stress. I was kind of focusing on engaging the upper back, and that might have had my draw up past 30".

Would a lighter draw, say 40 lb, be easier on the integrity of the bow?

Another thing that crossed my mind was that this happened in the house, temp about 70F. I have to imagine in cold weather things would tend to break even easier.
Draw length, especially long draw lengths, demand certain considerations when choosing a bow. Probably 80-85% of our customers draw 28" or less. But for those of us (I draw 31") who draw longer we MUST consider bow length and bow design as a critical matter before choosing which bow to buy. A bow built for 80-85% of the folks may very well not be suitable for the other 15%.

If you want to have some help feel free to call Mike at the shop on Monday.

John
buttstock, I get what you are saying, but I wasn't trying to be manly. I figured 50 was a good middleweight bow.

Anyhoo, the bow already arrived and has already suffered catastrophic failure. It's in the previous posts.

Thanks for the well intended comments anyway.
Originally Posted by John_Havard
Draw length, especially long draw lengths, demand certain considerations when choosing a bow. Probably 80-85% of our customers draw 28" or less. But for those of us (I draw 31") who draw longer we MUST consider bow length and bow design as a critical matter before choosing which bow to buy. A bow built for 80-85% of the folks may very well not be suitable for the other 15%.

If you want to have some help feel free to call Mike at the shop on Monday.

John




Thanks John. That's good critical information.....grin.

I'll get ahold of 3Rivers on Monday and see what they have to say. I need to back up, regroup, and think before making the next move. I' not ready to just go in for a $1000 ballpark bow just now. The $399 Bear was about all I was willing to spend to get a starter bow. But thanks for the help.
I used to build both. I much preferred a takedown recurve myself.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
buttstock, I get what you are saying, but I wasn't trying to be manly. I figured 50 was a good middleweight bow.

Anyhoo, the bow already arrived and has already suffered catastrophic failure. It's in the previous posts.

Thanks for the well intended comments anyway.


Since your bow broke so soon after, you should be able to get it replaced, or get a refund. If possible, get a refund, and get the 64" Spyder XL in 30-35#, and practice with it. It is an eady and low cost action to move up to a 40# limb when it is time. You will not read a bad review on this bow. You can draw this bow to over 31" without stacking. It is a great shooting bow. Shoots as well or better than a bow 3-4x it's price-and other shooters report the same thing.

Honestly, do an internet search on "overbowed" + "archery". It's just not men making this recommendation.

Hope you can get a refund on your bow.

https://www.southwestarcheryusa.com...spyder-xl-64-takedown-recurve-bow-parent


John C (owner) at Twig Archery is great to deal with, if you want a personal touch. He will hand select a specific draw weight limb for you at no charge. A 35# limb is 42-43#@30". Very deer huntable. Many threads out there about #40 draw weight and deer hunting

John can also make up xx75 aluminum shaft arrows for you. Maybe Easton Tributes or Jazz. Probably 1916 shafts with 125- 150 grain points will work for you.

http://www.twigarchery.com/64-spyder-xl-1/

The takeaway is that you want to be able to shoot enough with s lighter draw weight to develop good form and habits, that are adaptable to heavier draw weights. Starting with 55# at your draw length is too much, and bad habits will develop. Your draw length will likely increase as you shoot with a lighter nos-wjich is good, and what you want to see as you develop back tension. Get the book "Shooting the Stickbow" by Anthony Camera ($20). Outstanding source of information for you.

Check YouTube for "the wedge" series for archery form ( 6? Videos). Fantastic.

Also, videos by Arne Moe and Jimmy Blackmon. Blackmon was National recurve 3d champ a few years back. Recently retired Colonel US Army and commanding officer of 101st airborne division. Amazing man, and great teacher.

Good luck.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Originally Posted by John_Havard
Draw length, especially long draw lengths, demand certain considerations when choosing a bow. Probably 80-85% of our customers draw 28" or less. But for those of us (I draw 31") who draw longer we MUST consider bow length and bow design as a critical matter before choosing which bow to buy. A bow built for 80-85% of the folks may very well not be suitable for the other 15%.

If you want to have some help feel free to call Mike at the shop on Monday.

John




Thanks John. That's good critical information.....grin.

I'll get ahold of 3Rivers on Monday and see what they have to say. I need to back up, regroup, and think before making the next move. I' not ready to just go in for a $1000 ballpark bow just now. The $399 Bear was about all I was willing to spend to get a starter bow. But thanks for the help.



You need to establish a solid anchor point. I anchor with my index finger against the corner of my mouth and my thumb under my jaw. In one picture you posted you are drawing well past that point. Wherever you want to anchor that is comfortable and doesn't get you out of alignment is fine. You can anchor against your ear if that's what you want. I knew one world class shooter who stuck his thumb in his ear.

My point is that wherever you anchor is your draw length and whatever bow you get needs to be designed for that draw length. You should never take a bow designed for a 28-29" draw which would be to your anchor on your mouth,and just draw that bow back past your ear practicing on your strength. It could very well let go at 32-33".

Same thing goes for letting ape arm guys draw a bow trying it out.
sorry to hear about bow breaking it can happen ,hopefully they replace it. we have had better luck with recurves and long bows made custom from Black Widow ,yes they cost plenty but we have been very satisfied with service and Black Widow bows. my son at 14 years of age had a problem with a Black Widow bow so i wrote to the owner of Black Widow ,he called my son personally during the week at 7 p.m. and replaced the old bow with a better Black Widow bow. the owner or Black Widow Bows a month later called again to make sure my 14 year old son was happy with his new custom Black Widow bow too in the evening again, now that is some real nice service !
I hear you all on the anchor point. My wife took that pic 5 minutes after I opened the box.

But regarding finding the anchor, I was working with the bow after that pic, and my intent was to let my bone structure alignment determine my anchor point. Not arbitrarily stick my finger in my mouth and declare that my anchor point, even as I am muscle-fugking the bow to keep it there.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
I hear you all on the anchor point. My wife took that pic 5 minutes after I opened the box.

But regarding finding the anchor, I was working with the bow after that pic, and my intent was to let my bone structure alignment determine my anchor point. Not arbitrarily stick my finger in my mouth and declare that my anchor point, even as I am muscle-fugking the bow to keep it there.


I hear you man. Most of us have done the same. I just wanted you to know that bows are sort of like rifles in that they may shoot best close to maximum pressure and do it well for years but exceed the design parameters and bad things can happen. Regardless,you should not have been able to break that bow if it was designed and tillered correctly at even 33 or 34 inches IMHO.

On anchor what you are looking for is correct alignment. What that means is that you are stressing muscle against muscle as little as possible and have good form which is a lot of things that gets you perfectly aligned to hit the target.

Let me see if I can shed some light a different way. When I am properly aligned with good form,including my anchor point,I can see my arrow in my peripheral vision. I don't put that tip on the target unless I am far enough away to use it as a reference,which is about 50 yards,but I know it will be in a straight line directly under my target closer than 50 yards,or over if farther.

If my anchor is in the wrong place,then I won't be aligned properly with the target. If my form is bad then I won't be properly aligned in a straight line vertical to my target. Your arrow spine is also important in this as too weak a spine will fly to the right even if properly aligned for a RH shooter and a stiff arrow will fly to the left. Some just correct by aiming differently but this is a bad move and will hurt your accuracy and form.


It's not a gap shooting thing either. I have shot like this for enough years that it's as ingrained as shooting skeet with a shotgun,which also requires perfect form, even if you aren't consciously placing that beed at a specific point in the air. Think of your anchor like your cheek on the shotgun stock. If your cheek is 3 inches off the stock,you likely won't hit the target. In the same way,your anchor has to be so that you get correct alignment. Just like the gun,if you are ligned up and don't jerk the trigger,or flubb the release,you will hit the target.
I started w a glove as a kid, but got into compounds in college and used a tab w finger spacer (Kantpinch KP300- calf hair).
Love that tab.

If I shoot split finger w recurve, that's my choice. My anchor there is w middle finger at corner of mouth.
My stance is kinda open, which shortens draw a tad. But I never have left to right problems.

That type of shooting works for me quite well, but requires a lot of practice as the arrow is not used as a sight.

After banging up some fingers, I had little time to practice and tried 3 under. Had a different bow and arrows had some extra weight added to get them spined right.
Experimenting I found that with a higher anchor (under cheekbone) I could use the arrow as a sight.
Also found that three under, w middle finger at corner of mouth, allows same sight picture, for different yardage.

Choice of tab for 3 under is Blackwidow 3 under calf hair tab.

BTW, I think they call that changing anchor stuff "face walking".

Depending on your setup/style..........you might find something that works easier than another.
Part of the fun, experimenting

But all of this assumes you have a properly tuned system to start with.

The arrow as a sight works very well, but I find it slower.............not fluid. Esp after shooting reflexive for so long.
Hopefully my health holds up and I can shoot my favorite way and get back to unconscious gap shooting (instinctive some call it LOL).
My hands and back get beat up pretty bad at work.
Hell I cracked my arm not all that long ago. Still have a bump/tender spot on it.

Sucks your new toy blew up.
Glad you got only a conversation starter out of it.
Not had any warranty work through 3 Rivers, but have stopped by their shop/showroom before.
Nice people.
Should treat you just fine.

Bought some stuff from the prev 3R owner, when they were in the basement of a house not far from my mom's place.
That about 30 yrs ago LOL.


.

I think w newer limb designs/materials a 45-50# bow might be pretty sweet for treestand hunting/distances.
Have been eyeballing 50# +/- 2 Blackwidow PCH, 56".
Might do the "test drive" offer.

Could be an expensive wall hanger..........due to arthritis issues.

I really loved my 2001 Blackwidow SA2...........55# 58". Sold it due to injury.
Current bow is 54#, also FF strung.........and 58".
Its an older metal riser Widow and I love the grip. More than the SA2 (which was BW's standard grip).

My 3rd BW HS model, finally got one between 50-55# that was fast flite rated.

Grip feel is HUGE factor for me.

Buddy has an older Chastain (he had it built). It's pretty sweet too.

For a factory recurve, the Hoyt Dorado was a decent riser, but the high grip (more like a medium to me) isn't high enough.
Had the Hoyt riser w Tradtech limbs. 53#. Was light, smooth and quiet.
The grip could have been made better w a custom grip............no biggie really.
My problem was the riser being 19".
Rather had a 17".
Like the Dorado looks better than those of the Satori.

And that is part of it.................looks.

Gotta enjoy what you're shooting. Looks and feel are subjective, and important.
Nice to try a bunch of stuff out.

See where your preferences point you.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
I hear you all on the anchor point. My wife took that pic 5 minutes after I opened the box.

But regarding finding the anchor, I was working with the bow after that pic, and my intent was to let my bone structure alignment determine my anchor point. Not arbitrarily stick my finger in my mouth and declare that my anchor point, even as I am muscle-fugking the bow to keep it there.


The corner of your mouth is not some arbitrary anchor point. This actor has been in use for many many years in both traditional archery and Compound archery with Finger shooters.

Outside of people trying to convert you to a recurve there has been a lot of good information given to you. You know the saying? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a Jack_ss drink!

No bow has zero stack so don't buy into that line of crap. Some bows (limbs) stack more than others. Some stack smoother than others. But all have stack. You can't change physics.

As far as spending money that is something you have to figure out where you are at. I can tell you that a Toelke is worth every penny.
Well I've pretty much come to the thinking that if I continue down this path, the smart way to go would be a custom made bow, with considerations given to my geometry. I did visit Toelke's website. Nice looking bows for sure, and no doubt they perform well.

That does leave the decision to how much am I willing to spend.

First thing though, I need to see what kind of resolution I can get from 3Rivers or Bear.
Marine,

Even though I'm in the business I regularly suggest that folks just starting out buy a good quality used bow instead of one of our new ones. After any new bow is "driven off the lot" it's worth less. Lots of people buy and sell used bows all the time. Several places for you to check but *bay might not be the best place. Maybe TradGang? In any event, you can often find a high-quality bow for half price. Might be worth a consideration.
That's a good idea. Being a lefty, and tall, that kind of narrows things down, but still worth looking around.
Just checked and Tradgang has a classified section strictly for LH bows. I'm sure there are other sites and places to check but not a bad place to start. Also, Big Jim is a TG sponsor and he sells LOTS of used bows. Here's a link to his used bow section: https://bigjimsbowcompany.com/product-category/bows/used-bows/
Thanks!
Used bows....

I've bought some from:

Recycled Recurves (Lonnie- his info on Bowsite's "Leatherwall")
The Footed Shaft
Tradtalk forums "classifieds".

Lots of stuff listed at the following:

Big Jims
RMS gear

Haven't bought from them yet, but I keep lookin' LOL
I spoke with 3Rivers yesterday. They didn't hesitate to say they will give me a refund on that bow.

They want me to ship the bow back to them, and they will send it to Bear for examination.
take the money and run ! get a new Black Widow custom made bow that fits you. my son had one of those new bear bows too we got rid of that bow too.good luck
What you need to do is find some trad events so you can try some bows if at all possible. When I started,the kind of bow I thought I wanted was way different from what I wound up with.
I started trad w a 45# Ben Pearson Hunter 2. Nice little bow but pretty slow. Got a rosewood DH Superdiablo 46# next. Stunning looks....hated the grip. Hoyt Huntmaster takedown .....shot well for a cheap import....55#. limb tip overlay problem. Said screw it and ordered a Blackwidow MA 2. $475 bucks back in 87. 62".....62# and all inserts. Shot it a few yrs and went a little shorter and lighter. Don't care for inserts in my risers and like 58" bows best.......what i ended up preferring. Had other bows.....maybe thirty or so. 38 to 65#. 56" to 69". Lots of fun experimenting/testing..........but for me i think im done. My fave bow so far is the old metal riser Blackwidow HS. Shame they dont maKe limbs for em anymore.
Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
What you need to do is... try some bows if at all possible. When I started,the kind of bow I thought I wanted was way different from what I wound up with.


2nd'd
Originally Posted by John_Havard
Marine,

Even though I'm in the business I regularly suggest that folks just starting out buy a good quality used bow instead of one of our new ones. After any new bow is "driven off the lot" it's worth less. Lots of people buy and sell used bows all the time. Several places for you to check but *bay might not be the best place. Maybe TradGang? In any event, you can often find a high-quality bow for half price. Might be worth a consideration.


Good luck finding a worth less Toelke. Compound market yes you can find steals. Recurve and Long Bow market for the run of the mill yes. Top end stuff from guys like Toelke very very rare, you are going to pay!
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Well I've pretty much come to the thinking that if I continue down this path, the smart way to go would be a custom made bow, with considerations given to my geometry. I did visit Toelke's website. Nice looking bows for sure, and no doubt they perform well.

That does leave the decision to how much am I willing to spend.

First thing though, I need to see what kind of resolution I can get from 3Rivers or Bear.


You should call Dan, maybe even see if you can take a ride out to see him. I have heard he will give you some great pointers which never hurts! His bows are magic, I have shoot a lot of bows and I can tell you his are second to none. Even if you don't buy from him, at least you will have a Benchmark to compare to.
crazy things can happen with compounds too. i was hunting from a tree once and came to full draw, because it was super cold and i wanted to confirm i could still draw the bow in the cold. i slowly started letting off on the bow, when unbeknown to me a twig from the cedar tree walked the string off the cam. the bow exploded in my hands. that ended the hunt and i was off to the bowshop, amazingly enough, there was no permanent damage to the bow from the sudden release of all that stored energy. still, that experience helped hasten me along to my recurve. I really like the KISS principle when it comes to bows.
Shane,

Sorry to hear about that blow up. That sucks.

I can highly recommend Sarrel's Archery. They make recurves, take-down recurves and longbows.

I was lucky enough to go to their shop and shoot several of their bows. They're works of art and smooth as glass.

Whatever you get, good luck.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
WTF???? I'm drawing the bow and holding, thinking about form, then gently drawing down.

Suddenly I have a takedown bow, and am bleeding from the melon. I didn't collapse.....the bow did.

It lasted 24 hours, and maybe 40 draws.

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God Damn man!!!
She came apart at full draw. I can see where a guy could develop a flinch if that was a regular thing.....grin.

3Rivers sent me a UPS label to send the bow back to Bear for examination, so it's in transit now. 3Rivers also said they will refund the bow. Still waiting on that.

I'm going to roll that money into a custom Toelke. Their bows look to be highly regarded in craftsmanship and performance, and they are truly stunning to look at. I'm leaning toward a 64 Super Static recurve, or a 66" Whip. 40-45 draw weight.
Good deal. I’ve seen compounds blow up, never a stick bow, scary shiit especially if a broadhead is involved.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
She came apart at full draw. I can see where a guy could develop a flinch if that was a regular thing.....grin.

3Rivers sent me a UPS label to send the bow back to Bear for examination, so it's in transit now. 3Rivers also said they will refund the bow. Still waiting on that.

I'm going to roll that money into a custom Toelke. Their bows look to be highly regarded in craftsmanship and performance, and they are truly stunning to look at. I'm leaning toward a 64 Super Static recurve, or a 66" Whip. 40-45 draw weight.


That accident could have been much much worse. You have a guardian angel
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
She came apart at full draw. I can see where a guy could develop a flinch if that was a regular thing.....grin.

3Rivers sent me a UPS label to send the bow back to Bear for examination, so it's in transit now. 3Rivers also said they will refund the bow. Still waiting on that.

I'm going to roll that money into a custom Toelke. Their bows look to be highly regarded in craftsmanship and performance, and they are truly stunning to look at. I'm leaning toward a 64 Super Static recurve, or a 66" Whip. 40-45 draw weight.


That accident could have been much much worse. You have a guardian angel

I had that thought when I saw that knot on his head and have heard stories of folks losing an eye under similar circumstances. Shane, you won't go wrong with a Toelke - I haven't had the pleasure of shooting one but have heard nothing but good things, and he will be able to tailor it to work with your wing span.
All trad eye injuries I've heard about were from stringing.

My buddy blew up his 80# PSE Mach 4 at a shoot, that one conked him on the head pretty hard.
I blew mine up (@82#) and it just cable lashed my bow arm.

Both cracked risers right through the shelf.
PSE changed the molds, reinforced that area and moved a gate.

Of course then came machined risers.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
She came apart at full draw. I can see where a guy could develop a flinch if that was a regular thing.....grin.

3Rivers sent me a UPS label to send the bow back to Bear for examination, so it's in transit now. 3Rivers also said they will refund the bow. Still waiting on that.

I'm going to roll that money into a custom Toelke. Their bows look to be highly regarded in craftsmanship and performance, and they are truly stunning to look at. I'm leaning toward a 64 Super Static recurve, or a 66" Whip. 40-45 draw weight.


MM good choice and wise move on the draw weight, I hope you make it out to pay him a visit.
I went through Ronan over the weekend, but didn't want to bother anyone.

When I'm ready to make an order, maybe I'll stop by. I'm not going to be an annoying 'tire kicker' wasting people's time.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
WTF???? I'm drawing the bow and holding, thinking about form, then gently drawing down.

Suddenly I have a takedown bow, and am bleeding from the melon. I didn't collapse.....the bow did.

It lasted 24 hours, and maybe 40 draws.



I think I found the problem. You need to back way off on the bench presses...... grin
Spoke with Dan Toelke today, and have one of his bows in the pipeline. He estimated about five weeks.

64" Whip, 40# at 28".

I'm pretty stoked!
Gotta give a thumbs-up to 3Rivers Archery too. They quickly refunded the full cost of the broken bow, and sent me a label to send the broken one back to Bear.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Spoke with Dan Toelke today, and have one of his bows in the pipeline. He estimated about five weeks.

64" Whip, 40# at 28".

I'm pretty stoked!


Hell yes! That is awesome. Congratulations
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Spoke with Dan Toelke today, and have one of his bows in the pipeline. He estimated about five weeks.

64" Whip, 40# at 28".

I'm pretty stoked!

Great choice! 40 lbs is about perfect to shoot or hunt with. You will still be able to use it in 10 years.
Got a call from Dan Toelke yesterday. Finish work is happening now, Bow will be shipping next Thursday.

That seems like great turnaround on a custom. Only about three weeks from order to ship.





So I'm looking at arrows. target arrows, but would like to use weight consistent with a hunting arrow in the event I develop the skill to hunt with this bow.

Looking at the spine charts, with my draw length and bow poundage (probably going to be 45 lbs at my draw length), it seems like a 400 spine is indicated for a 32" Easton aluminum shaft at 12 GPI, 29gr insert, and a 150-200gr insert/tip. I'm calculating arrow weight in the 550-600gr range, FOC around 12-14%.

With 45 lbs, I'm guessing velocity might be around 150-160 fps?

Does any of this seem way wrong? Or about right?
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Got a call from Dan Toelke yesterday. Finish work is happening now, Bow will be shipping next Thursday.

That seems like great turnaround on a custom. Only about three weeks from order to ship.





So I'm looking at arrows. target arrows, but would like to use weight consistent with a hunting arrow in the event I develop the skill to hunt with this bow.

Looking at the spine charts, with my draw length and bow poundage (probably going to be 45 lbs at my draw length), it seems like a 400 spine is indicated for a 32" Easton aluminum shaft at 12 GPI, 29gr insert, and a 150-200gr insert/tip. I'm calculating arrow weight in the 550-600gr range, FOC around 12-14%.

With 45 lbs, I'm guessing velocity might be around 150-160 fps?

Does any of this seem way wrong? Or about right?







What's your draw length and are you set on aluminum? I only mess with carbons and don't know much about aluminum.
Draw length is around 30.5"
I'm not hard over on aluminum vs carbon.

Aluminum looks less expensive, and since I'm likely to be destroying a few.....grin
I had a Toelke whip for a while, by far the nicest longbow I ever owned or have shot.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
I'm not hard over on aluminum vs carbon.

Aluminum looks less expensive, and since I'm likely to be destroying a few.....grin

I've got some carbons that I've been shooting for over 10 years. Some have been shot through 3/4 plywood by mistake, and lived to fly again. I shot XX75's for years,maybe 20 or so and always bent those suckers on something if I ever did any stumping or such.

My favorite shaft is the Carbon express heritage. You will save money if you fletch them yourself and you need top be able to cut and fletch arrows about like needing to be able to reload a rifle. You need to cut that arrow to tune it while bareshaft,before feathers.

The 150's I would think would work fine for you. I do know Lancasters archers use to would sell you just one arrow of a couple different spines if you weren't sure. I would call them and tell them all your info and try 3 carbons at their suggested everything. Just tell them you want a really tough carbon if they don't have the Heritage arrows. Look at heavier Gpp which should indicate an extra wrap and a stronger heavier arrow.

I do not shoot the hybrid arrows made of both aluminum and carbon. To me they have the faults of both and not as good as either in benefits. A big benefit of aluminum is ease of finding good tune. You can get there with carbons and they are well worth the effort when you do. They recover paradox faster and are much more durable unless you buy the super light weight target arrows.
Thanks for the good info.
When I can figure out the answer to your original question, I’ll be sure to let you know. wink

The Herd

Nice looking herd.

My Toelke is 'out for delivery', should be along in the next few hours.
Looking forward to pics of that bad boy!
It's here! I'll get some pics.
Bow arrived packed in PVC tubing, along with a case, two strings, and a stringer.

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40# at 28". Left Hand, tillered three under. This is the black micarta riser, bamboo limb cores, mango limb veneers, cocobolo grip accents.

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I've got some arrows and things coming from 3Rivers.
Nice looking bow. I have a few of those pvc and cardboard tubes from Dan laying around.
Use that stringer and take your time when doing so. Dan packs a pretty good stringer. I would rotate both strings also. Just in case one goes bad the other will be stretched and have the nock in the right place for you.
I did use the stringer. I always did the step-through with my old bow as a kid. Won't be doing that now.
Absolutely beautiful bow!
Very nice!! I very much dig the lines of a longbow.

My compound is old and not all that "good". Since I may be in the market for a bow, I'm thinking I just may go traditional. Have an eBay Bear I bought years ago and just may get it out of mothballs and see if I still like it.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Bow arrived packed in PVC tubing, along with a case, two strings, and a stringer.

[Linked Image]


40# at 28". Left Hand, tillered three under. This is the black micarta riser, bamboo limb cores, mango limb veneers, cocobolo grip accents.

[Linked Image]

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[img]https://i.imgur.com/HOWxT8I.jpg[/img

I've got some arrows and things coming from 3Rivers.


Beautiful Whip! Bet you're going to love it, I sure love mine. I suspect it's going to surprise you with how fast it is. Enjoy!
I had my first shooting session with it today. started with a bag target at 10 and 12 yards. Really enjoyed it.

I haven't shot a bow in over 40 years. This is going to be a regular thing now. I've got a lot of work to put in, and looking forward to all of it.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
I had my first shooting session with it today. started with a bag target at 10 and 12 yards. Really enjoyed it.

I haven't shot a bow in over 40 years. This is going to be a regular thing now. I've got a lot of work to put in, and looking forward to all of it.

I would encourage you to get your arrows tuned as perfectly as possible. Look at how to bareshaft tune.

Just like messing with rifles we can tune bows. Arrows are just like bullets in that we can match a particular one to our projectile thrower to do what we want. we can shoot lighter ones for flatter trajectory or heavier ones for better penetration. The thing to remember however is that an arrow will need to be tuned just like a load adjusted for a different bullet to have optimal accuracy from your projectile launcher of choice.
Yeah I've been reading up on a lot of the finer points of tuning a traditional bow. I went with Gold Tip Traditional 32" carbon shafts, 400 spine. For my draw length, cutting them shorter isn't going to be an option.

But what I did do was get one of those assorted weight field tips pack, with weights at 100, 125, 145, 175, 200, and 250. Yesterday I was using the 145gr. Arrows were hitting nice and straight. I will take a look at the nocking point and see if that might want tweaking.

At this point though, The biggest thing that needs tuning is me. I didn't do horrible yesterday, kept them all on the target anyways in some kind of loose but consistent fashion. Of course the wind was blowing 10-20 mph. So I'll be working mostly on my own form before going too wild on anything else.
Getting some 'trigger time'.

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Beautiful bow Shane - studying the limbs at full draw and the string angle at the tips looks like it should be a smooth drawing bow at your longer draw length. Looks like you have a winner!
It's real smooth all the way back to 31". I'm having a great time with it. Shot today at 15 and 20 yards. 5-10 mph crosswind, but I'm surprised how well I'm doing with it already.
I was shooting my Super D today. Always amazed how quiet this bow is. This bow is 68” and really really smooth.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
It's real smooth all the way back to 31". I'm having a great time with it. Shot today at 15 and 20 yards. 5-10 mph crosswind, but I'm surprised how well I'm doing with it already.



Good to hear that it is working for you!
Originally Posted by Chrisk1977
I was shooting my Super D today. Always amazed how quiet this bow is. This bow is 68” and really really smooth.


The Super D is a pretty cool looking bow.
Well I progressed back to 20 yards today. 5-7 mph crosswind. Shot a dozen or so groups of three arrows.

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Missed a few completely, maybe four or five altogether. Put together a few dinnerplate size groups.

Managed one tight group of three, but it was off to the right. Consistent anyways.

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MontanaMarine Beautiful bow! I told you it was money well spent.

Relax your hand!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
MontanaMarine Beautiful bow! I told you it was money well spent.

Relax your hand!!!!!!!!!!!!


You were absolutely right.

I need to focus on that hand.

It's amazing how much is going on to make the shot well. Anchor point, release, back tension, hands, etc. I'm trying to focus on one thing, but there is a lot to work on. I'm enjoying it.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
MontanaMarine Beautiful bow! I told you it was money well spent.

Relax your hand!!!!!!!!!!!!


You were absolutely right.

I need to focus on that hand.

It's amazing how much is going on to make the shot well. Anchor point, release, back tension, hands, etc. I'm trying to focus on one thing, but there is a lot to work on. I'm enjoying it.





That is awesome MM keep at it. Break it down from front to back. Relaxed grip, Arms always flat and level with shoulders, squeeze your shoulder blades trying to make them touch. Relaxed fingers on the string. Smooth release. You'll get there. As soon as you start feeling even a little tired, STOP! Bad practice is worst than no practice.
I'm not pushing it too hard, after about 25-30 arrows I can feel it's time to put it down. Trying to think about every shot, not just sailing them downrange.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
I'm not pushing it too hard, after about 25-30 arrows I can feel it's time to put it down. Trying to think about every shot, not just sailing them downrange.

Exactly the right approach...
Two of these were recurves and one with a longbow. Personally I prefer recurves for the "feel"of the draw/force curve.

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That's impressive. Just massive animals.
That will make a man pretty jealous right there
Looks like you're having fun MM!!! Congrat's on the new bow and enjoy making memories with it!!!
I've been shooting consistently all summer/fall. No trouble putting in 100+ arrows in a session now. My bag target is about thrashed, bowstring shows some wear on the serving, and just below, but i'm waxing it. Grew some new callous on my draw fingers.

I shot these targets at 14 yards inside the garage recently. GT Warrior, 500, 30", 125gr tips. Seem to fly well.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I'm going to keep shooting. I really love it. I think by next fall I will be up to hunting with it. See if I can shank one of these muleys around here or something.

Today I was outside practicing at 20, 30, and for [bleep]-n-giggles, tried 50 yards. Put 3 of 6 in the bag at 50, first go, second go, missed all 6, but the wind had kicked up some.

Enjoying the journey.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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Good shooting - you're progressing well. Though longbows take more effort to master, they are a blast to shoot (especially when you start getting consistent with it). I recently impressed my grandsons when I tossed a tennis ball out in the yard around 20 yds or so and center punched it on the first shot.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
I've been shooting consistently all summer/fall. No trouble putting in 100+ arrows in a session now. My bag target is about thrashed, bowstring shows some wear on the serving, and just below, but i'm waxing it. Grew some new callous on my draw fingers.

I shot these targets at 14 yards inside the garage recently. GT Warrior, 500, 30", 125gr tips. Seem to fly well.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I'm going to keep shooting. I really love it. I think by next fall I will be up to hunting with it. See if I can shank one of these muleys around here or something.

Today I was outside practicing at 20, 30, and for [bleep]-n-giggles, tried 50 yards. Put 3 of 6 in the bag at 50, first go, second go, missed all 6, but the wind had kicked up some.

Enjoying the journey.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



MM Great job. You have come a long ways! Love seeing guys succeed. Looking forward to seeing your first kill with it. Keep at it!
Thanks guys. I've appreciated all the advice and knowledge I've gotten here along the way too.
Looking good my friend. I would cut the feathers off a couple of those shafts and see if they shoot into the group. That's the only real way to know if the spine is right or bow is tuned to those shafts. Just remember that any inconsistencies in form or release will send a bare shaft way off.If however form and release are correct a bare shaft if spined correctly to the bow will fly just as good as a fletched shaft.
I haven't done any bareshaft tuning yet, but maybe I'm at the point where I could get useful info from it.

Let's see, that will lead to a need for an arrow saw, squaring tool, fletching jig, fletches, glues, etc etc. I'll be way down the rabbit hole....grin
Yep - it never ends, though like most things, you can make it as simple or as complex as you like! I never bare shaft tuned an arrow until I started shooting carbon shafts a few years ago. Prior to that, all I shot were wood shafts and never felt the need. I still don't have an arrow saw - I just wrap the shaft with masking tape and use a hacksaw carefully cutting from opposite sides of the shaft, and use a disc sander to square up the cut ends. I will say a fletching jig is probably a must have - eventually you'll wear out feathers and want to start refletching...
Good info, thanks Jerry.
Glad to help. Enjoyed visiting with you the other day - too bad a shotgun purchase cut it short (I can go on for hours on the subject of archery).

Jerry
I was kind of in a hurry too, didn't want to seem rude but I needed to keep it moving myself.

Sometime we should meet up over bows, guns, stuff like that.

Shane
I still run my ol Jo Jan monofletcher bought in the early 80s.

Didnt cost much then. The bargain was doing my arrows right ( had pro shops flub it prev ). Plus I can do em whenever I want.
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Sometime we should meet up over bows, guns, stuff like that.

Shane

I agree - that'd be good...
Before the snow flew I shot this target at 33 yards with the Toelke.

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I've also added a couple (!) more bows to the inventory. Kustom King had some sale going on lefty bows, and I went in for two 60" Slick Sticks. 35#, and 50#. They are pretty sweet.


20 yards with the 50# Slick Stick,

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The 35-pounder is just a pleasure to shoot, and shoot, and shoot.
I'll keep shooting through the winter, but mostly inside the garage. I can get 14 yards going diagonally across.

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Good stuff, Shane! I see your shooting 3 under - have you experimented shooting split finger also? I've always shot split finger and the couple times I've tried 3 under, my sight picture was so different I never really gave it time to get used to it. I can see there are advantages to 3 under and keep telling myself I need to spend more time getting used to shooting that way.
Oh, I get the diagonal shooting in the garage - do the same thing myself in winter.
Jerry, I started out three-under. Had the Toelke tillered three-under, and bought a three-under tab.

I haven't tried split-finger at all. Maybe give it a try someday.
Mild day here, 40F and calm. Got in some outdoor practice at 22 yards with 35# Slick Stick.




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Think I'll call the boys in Nixa and test drive a 56" PCH at around 46#.
It's either that or get another PSA2 58" at same #.
Put my 54# HS on the block.
I can shoot it decent, but I gotta not have any aches/injuries.
Work beats me up.
So a little less # is proly the way I gotta go.
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