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Line weight advice please

Posted By: lawnman

Line weight advice please - 05/01/20

So my father in law passed along to me a mid to late 80s orvis battenkill 7/8 reel and an orvis 7 weight allrounder model rod. This rod is 8'3" in length. 2 piece. Has a soft or slow action and flexes all the way to the grip. So question is because it's a 20 year old rod and technology 7 weight do you believe it is still a 7 weight line class by today's standards when I buy new line? Probably going to be a bass rig. Sweet rod and reel imo. Thanks
Posted By: VaHunter

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/01/20

I would say that if you use a true to weight line, like a S.A. Trout, you could use a 7 weight line on that rod with good success. I see you are in Florida and that means Largemouth Bass and that means big flies. You may have trouble with those flies on a slow action 7wt rod.

If it was mine I would try it with a 6wt line, but I have lots of different lines to try without purchasing.
Posted By: joelkdouglas

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/01/20

If there’s a fly shop near you I would think they would let you try a couple different lines before purchase.

If no fly shop I would start with a 7 weight line and go from there, but I would try a line that had a mild taper. For instance a Scientific Anglers Amplitude Trout has a longer weighted portion than the Amplitude MPX. You might hear something like the Amplitude MPX has a shorter ‘head’ than the Amplitude Trout. The Amplitude Infinity has a head between those two.

And I only looked at the one website. Rio or whoever will have similar charts for their lines. They all work, and if you fish them enough you’ll develop preferences that probably don’t have anything to do with the weight.

I would also order from somewhere that will accept returns! Then if it doesn’t work out you can send it back.
Posted By: 1minute

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/02/20

Yes. Find a shop or a buddy that will let one try a line or two. They are getting expensive enough now, that purchasing simply for research can get a bit spendy. Probably a weight forward for bigger bugs and bucking the wind.

If ones line is a bit heavy, he can start chopping off at the tip. Tough to put material on though if it's a little light.
Posted By: patrout

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/03/20

I would probably go with 6wtf to start and see how that works
Posted By: Pugs

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/03/20

Originally Posted by lawnman
So my father in law passed along to me a mid to late 80s orvis battenkill 7/8 reel and an orvis 7 weight allrounder model rod. This rod is 8'3" in length. 2 piece. Has a soft or slow action and flexes all the way to the grip. So question is because it's a 20 year old rod and technology 7 weight do you believe it is still a 7 weight line class by today's standards when I buy new line? Probably going to be a bass rig. Sweet rod and reel imo. Thanks


The mid-80's were, tragically, not that long ago! eek I'd go with a line that hasn't changed it's profile much if any like a Cortland 444. Those lines were around then and will work swimmingly on that rod.

https://www.cortlandline.com/collections/freshwater-fly-line/products/444-sl

Posted By: joelkdouglas

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/03/20

Originally Posted by Pugs
Originally Posted by lawnman
So my father in law passed along to me a mid to late 80s orvis battenkill 7/8 reel and an orvis 7 weight allrounder model rod. This rod is 8'3" in length. 2 piece. Has a soft or slow action and flexes all the way to the grip. So question is because it's a 20 year old rod and technology 7 weight do you believe it is still a 7 weight line class by today's standards when I buy new line? Probably going to be a bass rig. Sweet rod and reel imo. Thanks


The mid-80's were, tragically, not that long ago! eek I'd go with a line that hasn't changed it's profile much if any like a Cortland 444. Those lines were around then and will work swimmingly on that rod.

https://www.cortlandline.com/collections/freshwater-fly-line/products/444-sl



I went into the “fancy” fly shop to the south of here to get my circa 2002 Ross Evolution (the Ross before the buyouts) re-lined and the young man doing the work looked like he’d never seen anything so old! Hell, sealed drag, all scratched up from rocks and drops over the years, made in the US.

No thanks young man, I’m not here for a new reel. This one is a good one!
Posted By: Pugs

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/03/20

Originally Posted by joelkdouglas

I went into the “fancy” fly shop to the south of here to get my circa 2002 Ross Evolution (the Ross before the buyouts) re-lined and the young man doing the work looked like he’d never seen anything so old! Hell, sealed drag, all scratched up from rocks and drops over the years, made in the US.

No thanks young man, I’m not here for a new reel. This one is a good one!



Yep, My 6 weight has a Lamson from 1988 on it. Still a damn fine reel and all those nicks and gouges are stories.
Posted By: Tejano

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/13/20

I had the same rod and liked it a lot. For bass fishing and shorter casts I would go up not down in line weight. A short bass bug 8 wt. might work well for poppers and heavier bugs. For FW trout I would go 7 wt. and maybe even a double taper. But as others have said try several if you can. People have different styles and preferences. A soft rod can be more forgiving and it telegraphs the feel to the handle better than a fast rod. I enjoy getting out the old fiberglass rods sometimes for the same reasons.

If you like fast rods you may want to go down to even a 5 wt. for a test, I bet you can throw the entire line with a five wt.
Posted By: Backroads

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/13/20

Rio makes a bass specific WF floating line for like 40 bucks. Get the 7wt and rock on.
Posted By: Sitka deer

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/15/20

Originally Posted by Backroads
Rio makes a bass specific WF floating line for like 40 bucks. Get the 7wt and rock on.

That line, like most Rio lines (Gold for example) is a weight heavy. On a slow rod with big bass bugs I think the weight will work against you. I would suggest a 6wt in that line. Trying to keep a lot of line in the air with a slow rod and big bugs is much tougher with the slightest breeze. The Rio Bass has a short head and that makes a big difference.
Posted By: Backroads

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/22/20

Yeah, I doubt a company like Rio has any idea how to make a fly line for throwing big bass bugs on a 7wt. You could probably teach them a thing or two.

Maybe they are looking for some advice on a custom stock too. Did you ever make Splattermatic right with that stock he sent you?
Posted By: Sitka deer

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/25/20

Originally Posted by Backroads
Yeah, I doubt a company like Rio has any idea how to make a fly line for throwing big bass bugs on a 7wt. You could probably teach them a thing or two.

Maybe they are looking for some advice on a custom stock too. Did you ever make Splattermatic right with that stock he sent you?


Obviously you are clueless about head length, line weight, fast versus slow rods, and big bugs. And please show me where I suggested anything negative about Rio lines there. What I did was to clearly describe why A Rio line a weight lighter would work better on a slow rod. Those are facts.

And you have to add a topic you are also clueless about. If you actually know something why not stick to those topics...
Posted By: Backroads

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/27/20

Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by Backroads
Yeah, I doubt a company like Rio has any idea how to make a fly line for throwing big bass bugs on a 7wt. You could probably teach them a thing or two.

Maybe they are looking for some advice on a custom stock too. Did you ever make Splattermatic right with that stock he sent you?


Obviously you are clueless about head length, line weight, fast versus slow rods, and big bugs. And please show me where I suggested anything negative about Rio lines there. What I did was to clearly describe why A Rio line a weight lighter would work better on a slow rod. Those are facts.

And you have to add a topic you are also clueless about. If you actually know something why not stick to those topics...


Bwahaahaa! Feel free to expound upon your thesis that underlining a rod is beneficial.

Ever.

Also, feel free to clue us all in to your dealings with Splattermatic. As it seems he has called you a crook, and you have never supplied a satifactory response to the contrary...
Posted By: Sitka deer

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/27/20

Originally Posted by Backroads
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by Backroads
Yeah, I doubt a company like Rio has any idea how to make a fly line for throwing big bass bugs on a 7wt. You could probably teach them a thing or two.

Maybe they are looking for some advice on a custom stock too. Did you ever make Splattermatic right with that stock he sent you?


Obviously you are clueless about head length, line weight, fast versus slow rods, and big bugs. And please show me where I suggested anything negative about Rio lines there. What I did was to clearly describe why A Rio line a weight lighter would work better on a slow rod. Those are facts.

And you have to add a topic you are also clueless about. If you actually know something why not stick to those topics...


Bwahaahaa! Feel free to expound upon your thesis that underlining a rod is beneficial.

Ever.

Also, feel free to clue us all in to your dealings with Splattermatic. As it seems he has called you a crook, and you have never supplied a satifactory response to the contrary...

Last chance for you, moron.

Please explain how overlining a slow, soft rod with long belly is going to help throwing big bugs. The Rio line suggested is one line weight heavy to help newer casters with fast rods. Fiberglass rods throwing big bugs not only do not benefit, but open loops. I suggested using the proper weight line for the soft rod to start.

Underlining is clearly useful in many, many situations. Using fiberglass for example, it produces tighter loops and for someone that actually knows what they are doing presentations can be more delicate and accuracy improved. Doubt you understand...

Stick to things you could possibly understand.
Posted By: Backroads

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/27/20



Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by Backroads
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by Backroads
Yeah, I doubt a company like Rio has any idea how to make a fly line for throwing big bass bugs on a 7wt. You could probably teach them a thing or two.

Maybe they are looking for some advice on a custom stock too. Did you ever make Splattermatic right with that stock he sent you?


Obviously you are clueless about head length, line weight, fast versus slow rods, and big bugs. And please show me where I suggested anything negative about Rio lines there. What I did was to clearly describe why A Rio line a weight lighter would work better on a slow rod. Those are facts.

And you have to add a topic you are also clueless about. If you actually know something why not stick to those topics...


Bwahaahaa! Feel free to expound upon your thesis that underlining a rod is beneficial.

Ever.

Also, feel free to clue us all in to your dealings with Splattermatic. As it seems he has called you a crook, and you have never supplied a satifactory response to the contrary...

Last chance for you, moron.

Please explain how overlining a slow, soft rod with long belly is going to help throwing big bugs. The Rio line suggested is one line weight heavy to help newer casters with fast rods. Fiberglass rods throwing big bugs not only do not benefit, but open loops. I suggested using the proper weight line for the soft rod to start.

Underlining is clearly useful in many, many situations. Using fiberglass for example, it produces tighter loops and for someone that actually knows what they are doing presentations can be more delicate and accuracy improved. Doubt you understand...

Stick to things you could possibly understand.



Do you believe that underlining a fiberglass rod will increase line speed? Or make for more accurate casts? Lol

As you obviously incredibly knowledgeable about such things, of course you would realize that to be wrong.

Line weight is a calculation of weight in grains that the first 30 feet of fly line weighs. When the line is a bit overweighted, it requires less of it out the tip of the rod to properly load said rod. If underlined, it will require more that the average 30 ft out the tip to load it.

That is all, the action of the rod will remain the same no matter the line being cast, as will line speed. The only thing that changes is how much line you have to have in the air to load the rod.

So, a line that is a bit heavier that standard will excel in throwing larger, wind resistant bugs. Also will make shorter casts much easier to control.

Conversely underlining a rod will require more line to be in the air just to make the rod work. Tell us how having more line in the air makes for better presentations and tighter loops...
Posted By: Sitka deer

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/27/20

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Posted By: Backroads

Re: Line weight advice please - 05/27/20

Bummer, I was really looking forward to more of your made up BS.

Just a couple more explanations, a bit more condescension, and I surely would have understood that keeping Splattermatic's stock was the right thing to do.
Posted By: bwinters

Re: Line weight advice please - 07/03/20

If it was me, do a search on Common Cents System pertaining to fly rod power. It's a simple deflection test using $0.01 pieces. Secure the butt of the rod, attach a sandwich bag using a paperclip to the tip, add pennies till the tip deflects 1/3 of its length, count the pennies, read the chart, done. I've checked all my fly rods and it checks out.

The issue is there is no standardized way to measure the fly line match of a fly rod. The standard was 30 ft of AFTMA line weight and rod deflection. With the improvements in graphite, most/all current day rods are way stiffer than yesteryear rods. Fly line mfr have followed suit which is why you see fly lines marketed at x times heavier than standard for X wt fly line. They are heavier because the rods have gotten stiffer. A fly rod throws the line therefore you need a certain amount and weight of line to enable the rod to throw the line. Plus people want to be able to cast 75 feet. False casting with a ton of line requires more rod power, hence a stiffer rod. Matching the line to the rod is fairly key. Experimenting with line works but at $100 a pop, I'd try to focus a bit closer to what the rod can handle.
Posted By: bwinters

Re: Line weight advice please - 07/03/20

Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by Backroads
Rio makes a bass specific WF floating line for like 40 bucks. Get the 7wt and rock on.

That line, like most Rio lines (Gold for example) is a weight heavy. On a slow rod with big bass bugs I think the weight will work against you. I would suggest a 6wt in that line. Trying to keep a lot of line in the air with a slow rod and big bugs is much tougher with the slightest breeze. The Rio Bass has a short head and that makes a big difference.


Pay attention to this. It follows what I just posted.

As to the rest of the thread, I'll pass. Casting less than 40 feet is no big feat with about anything including a broom stick with fly line. Chuck a big fly 50-75 feet, I'd match line weight at distances cast to my rod. I'm not a fan of way under or overlining a fly rod.
Posted By: Sitka deer

Re: Line weight advice please - 07/03/20

Originally Posted by bwinters
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by Backroads
Rio makes a bass specific WF floating line for like 40 bucks. Get the 7wt and rock on.

That line, like most Rio lines (Gold for example) is a weight heavy. On a slow rod with big bass bugs I think the weight will work against you. I would suggest a 6wt in that line. Trying to keep a lot of line in the air with a slow rod and big bugs is much tougher with the slightest breeze. The Rio Bass has a short head and that makes a big difference.


Pay attention to this. It follows what I just posted.

As to the rest of the thread, I'll pass. Casting less than 40 feet is no big feat with about anything including a broom stick with fly line. Chuck a big fly 50-75 feet, I'd match line weight at distances cast to my rod. I'm not a fan of way under or overlining a fly rod.

I think I can pretty well tell what a fly rod will do without a scale. Have been seriously into fly-fishing most of my life and was a guide for a long time. I have also taught quite a few very good casters how to cast.
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