After a long hiatus I've started loading for a 30-06 again. Using IMR 4350 and Sierra 165 grain BTSP's, I have run across an issue with Hodgdon's data. Hodgdon web lists 56 grains as the starting load, with 60 compressed as the max. Sierra 6th edition lists 49.3 as min and 57 as max. So... I weighed up 56 grains. It filled the case to about half the neck, which I would consider compressed (I didn't try it, but I bet 60 grains would have overflowed) I backed off to 52 grains, well within Sierra's limits.
Some details- I purchased this particular can of 4350 in 2002. Has 4350 changed that much over the years? I'm using new production WW component brass purchased from Midway back in May.

So why is Hodgdon calling for such large load volumes? Any thoughts?

Don't know.

But as a reference, I use Nosler data with a 165 Partition and 57gr IMR 4350 is the listed max.

I'm thinking Hodgden probably used a long drop tube to get that much IMR 4350 into the case. I'm guessing probably also used Winchester brass which is reputed to have slightly greater capacity. I have run 58.0 gr. of H4350SC into Winchester brass with an 8" drop tube and if dropped slowly enough just barely came into the neck. Bullet seated was the Hornady 180 gr. SP Interlock. Velocity was 2800 FPS and brass life appears good after three loadings. Rifles were two Remington 700s, a BDL and a Classic. The BDL ran .80" on average for three shot groups and the Classic right at one inch, sometimes slightly less. I'll probably back off to the more common load of 57.0 gr. and call it good.
Paul B.

Isn't Sierra's data in Federal cases? Those are usually heavier than the Winchester that Hodgdon uses.

I have noticed with some frequently used cans of powder that over time seem to dry out somewhat. In my experience the powder becomes lighter and has filled up the case to a higher level. Therefore I can not get the recommended weight in the case before it becomes compressed. Possibly with your older powder this has happened(?). Forks

I have noticed with some frequently used cans of powder that over time seem to dry out somewhat. In my experience the powder becomes lighter and has filled up the case to a higher level. Therefore I can not get the recommended weight in the case before it becomes compressed. Possibly with your older powder this has happened(?). Forks

The H4350SC sounds like the ticket. I'll have to keep my eye out for that.

Thanks for the responses. I never really have considered a drop tube, so I guess I wasn’t thinking on those terms. I’ll just see how 52 grains (and maybe try 53) work out. Will probably be a few weeks before I can try them.

BTW, Both Hodgdon web and Sierra 6th lists Winchester cases for the ‘06.

I use 59 grains with 150 partitions, Case is full, been using this load for 40 years plus.

Have been burning IMR-4350 in the '06 since 1966. Multiple lots. About 20 different '06s, over decades. Never saw or chrono'd anything to suggest noticeable lot variation.

My starting load for any Pb core 180 is/was the Lyman accuracy load, ie., 54.2 gr. No rifle has ever balked, whether pump, semi, bolt (including Dad's 03A3). Usually get 2600 fps. Used commercial and military brass (from the '50s) interchangeably.

FWIW, no '06 bolt objected to 56 gr IMR-4350 with a Pb core 180. For 2650 to 2700 fps. Have never exceeded that. That's what RL-22 is for, right?

So I think a 52 gr starting load with 165s is needlessly conservative.

I have used 58 gr/IMR 4350 with 165 gr bullets for decades. It has been accurate in many 30-06 rifles.

If powder is properly stored, I would use it. Check it visually as well, looking for a dusty appearance and acrid smell. Lacking those things, I’d use it.

I'm using 1990's vintage IMR 4350, 56 gr, Newer WW bulk brass once fired and to get the powder down to the neck/shoulder juncture I have to use a powder scale pan and trickle the powder down the side of the plastic powder funnel. Nothing wrong with compressed loads, I just avoid them.

I used Sierra 165gr. Game King bullets over IMR 4350 to take both of last season's whitetails, it's a deadly load and accurate too. The buck managed a 60yd. death run while the doe was a DRT, didn't recover either bullet.

I used Sierra 165gr. Game King bullets over IMR 4350 to take both of last season's whitetails, it's a deadly load and accurate too. The buck managed a 60yd. death run while the doe was a DRT, didn't recover either bullet.

I load 58gr H4350 behind a 165 Nosler Ballistic Tip ,or more often, 57gr behind a 180 Accubond for right around 2800fps in a 22" barrel in Winchester cases. I dont have any issues with needing a drop tube, I simple pour the powder slowly out of the funnel and has worked fine. Muledeer has loaded 58.5gr behind a 165 and said the extra half grain has usually been a slightly more accurate load in several rifles he's tested. I've never used the IMR version, as H4350 is much more temperature stable. Two very useful loads. If memory serves me, I think the 180gr load just touches the powder slightly, not much compression at all, and has shot very well. Nosler shows a 56.5gr charge of H4350 as being a 94% fill load in their 180gr loadings.

I can tell ya in the 06s I have and have had... 60 grains of IMR 4350 or H 4350 will pop primers with a 165 grain bullet...

I bet it would!!

H4350 is diff than IMR4350

So...
Finally got around to shooting the 52 & 53 grain loads, 5 shot groups, 2 1/8" & 2 3/8" respectively. Not exactly what I'm looking for; did not get a chance to chrony them. I've loaded up some 55 and 56 grainers, as well as some with IMR 4895. Weird how slowly trickling in the powder makes all the difference. Slow blade penetrates the shield...

Will be a bit before I can make it back to the range. I'm hoping for something better out of this rifle. It's a new (two years old?) 700 ADL.

Big stick powders like IMR 4350 do well with a bit of "settling" the powder in the case. I've not had any luck with charges below 56 grains. Don't be afraid to try 57 or 58 either. Seating depth may be a factor, once you find something that shoots a little closer to 1.5" for 5.

IMR-4350 is a long stick powder that doesn't stack that tight in the case,so even it the powder is in the neck,you can push it back into the case when seating the bullet without it being over compressed with the bullet backing out after seating.I've run 60.0grs with 150gr bullets in Winchester cases that have been fired with no problem and that is a good load.With 165gr bullets,I've had best accuracy with 58.0grs.Remington cases seem to have a little less volume,you might want to back off a grain if you use those cases.I've loaded the three 4350 powders,Accurate,IMR and H,when using the same charge,Accurate was the lightest weight powder by volume using up the most space in the case.H was the heaviest taking up the least space.And IMR fell between the other two,maybe being closer to Accurate than H.One thing I've noticed about loading the 30-06,it seems like most loads are going to fill the case at the bottom or just into the neck of the case.The long neck of the 30-06 allows you to seat a lot of bullet weights without taking up powder space.You can shoot powders from Varget to Reloader-26 and usually find good loads.A couple of other powders I like in the 30-06 are Win 760 and Ramshot Big Game.Those two powders are ball powders and will give you more case space because it stacks tight leaving less air space between each grain.I like using a magnum primer with those two and get very good accuracy and velocities too.

I sent an email to Hodgdon questioning whether or not the 60.0grs of IMR-4350 with a 165gr bullet was an error.The response I got back was no,it was a long tested load.I would not shoot that in any of the five 30-06's I own.All my rifles seem to max out at around 58.5grs.
This is on Hodgdon's data
IMR
IMR 4350
0.308"
3.300"
56.0
2,746
48,100 PSI
60.0C
2,934
57,600 PSI

Get a plaster vibrator from a hobby store or your Dentist. These are used for getting bubbles out of the mix to get smooth models. Even with big size stock powders you can vibrate a full case down to the base of the neck. If you use a drop tube and a slow pour with the vibrator you came get even more of a settled fill. Been doing this for years and most of my loads don't "crunch" when bullet seating. JM

A few comments:

First, as somebody already hinted at, new cases have less capacity than fired cases, even after fired cases have been full-length resized. Have never encountered any problem getting up to 60 grains of IMR4350 in fired Winchester cases with SOME 165-grain bullets, even without "settling" the powder--and also never encountered any pressure problems with 60 grains with SOME 165-grain bullets.

Which brings up my second point: Different bullets result in different pressures. Which is one reason why various sources of loading data list different maximum charges with 165-grain bullets. The Sierra boattail that Hodgdon lists with a 60.0 grain max is one that produces less pressure, due to less bearing surface. (I used 58.5 grains of IMR4350 for many years in Winchester cases with the 165 Nosler Partition, with zero problems--and the Partition results in MORE pressure than most bullets.)

Third, there is no major difference in the burn-rate of H4350 or IMR4350. Back when H4350 was newer Hodgdon adjusted the data for it fairly often, and it could indicate burning a little faster OR slower than IMR4350. But that's pretty much settled down. The data for the two 165-grain bullets they provide data for show 1.2 and 1.0 grains difference in maximum loads. That's well within the normal variation of different manufacturing lots of handloading powders.

Fourth, firm compression is usually good for powder charges, especially extruded powders. They burn more consistently, and also tend to be less temperature sensitive with noticeable compression. A good example is the load I've been using in my .375 H&H for almost 30 years with both Nosler Partitions and Sierra GameKings, 80.0 grains of IMR4350. It is heavily compressed, but far less temperature sensitive than 58.5 grains of IMR4350 and the 165 Nosler Partition in the .30-06, which is only lightly compressed with that bullet. (It would be more firmly compressed with some other 165-grain bullets, such as the Barnes TTSX, Hornady GMX or Nosler E-Tip.)

John, I know that hearing this gets tiresome, but I still think that a comparison list of bullets as to bearing surface would be an interesting (and useful if viewed with intelligence) thing.

Overall, IMR 4350 has always been more accurate in my '06 with 165's than H4350, but not by much. Find what is best for you between 56-58 grains and call it good. IMHO, the velocity difference between the high and low or even trying to push a 165 faster with more powder is not worth a second thought. I'm not a competition shooter and I don't shoot game much past 400 yards. With that, I've shot good groups (typically an inch or better) and game from 100+ degree temperatures to down into the teens and IMR 4350 has always worked very well.

I have found the same accuracy difference in 180s in my '06. There is nothing scientific about my conclusion, just my observation.