I’ve got a steel receiver BLR chambered in 358. I currently have it loaded up with 51 grains of TAC and a Hornady FTX (I think it may be a smidge on the hot side, the primers look a little flat so I plan to back that load off a bit). Anyway, I picked up some 225 grain Sierra’s that I want to find a good hunting load with. I have TAC but saw on the Sierra loading app I have that IMR 4320 didn’t look to bad either. Anyone have any experience with TAC or 4320 with 225 grain bullets out of the 358?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2263728#Post2263728

50 gr of TAC, behind that Sierra 225 gr BT, is shooting 1/2 MOA out to 600 yards, in my 358 Win.

It’s all I run in my (3) 358’s. 225 SGK 50 gr TAC, absolute hammer, and accurate

I think if you dig around a bit, you'll find a couple of recent threads about 4320 being discontinued. Which is sad, I've used it for a lot of years in my 358


Dale

Not a Sierra fan whatsoever, buuuut, the 225’s are awesome in the 358 or whelen.

[quote=Dale K]I think if you dig around a bit, you'll find a couple of recent threads about 4320 being discontinued. Which is sad, I've used it for a lot of years in my 358

Yes I know it’s discontinued. Luckily I have about 3lbs stashed away.

No experience with either of the powders, but I have used the Sierra 225 on several elk.
The bullet may be a bit on the soft side for really big game like mature bull elk or moose, but the small bulls and cows I’ve shot with it died quickly and bullet performance was good. The Nosler may be a better choice.
If it’s to be used on deer or bear, you really couldn’t find a better bullet, imho.
I used W748 in my loads, but plan to pick up some TAC and give it a go.....

You should be able to do 2400+ with IMR4320 and the 225 Sierra. If you have any IMR 4064 or Varget, they work great too and I got 2400+ with my BLR and good accuracy. I've only used TAC with the 200s and it works great.

I have used Sierra's max load (48.9 grains) with the 225 GK in my M70 for 2519 fps. Dead deer out to 125 yards. Used it in my BLR also with the same result but, at a lower velocity.

2400+ is my goal for the 225 Sierra in the BLR. From reading online and stuff I thought I should be able to get there with either the 4320 or TAC. I was leaning toward the 4320 for no real reason.



What barrel length does your model 70 have?

I'd say having 3 lbs on hand is a good reason. The Sierra manual lists 48.9 grns of it as their max with the 225. They also list it as both their accuracy and hunting load at 2450 fps, the test firearm being a BLR. Here's the QL on it too:

Cartridge : .358 Win.
Bullet : .358, 225, Sierra SPBT 2850
Useable Case Capaci: 47.725 grain H2O = 3.099 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.780 inch = 70.61 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : IMR 4320

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 91 39.20 1926 1853 29085 5489 83.0 1.393
-18.0 93 40.18 1975 1949 31075 5686 84.4 1.354
-16.0 95 41.16 2025 2048 33215 5880 85.8 1.315
-14.0 97 42.14 2075 2151 35512 6069 87.1 1.277
-12.0 100 43.12 2125 2257 37984 6255 88.4 1.240
-10.0 102 44.10 2176 2366 40645 6434 89.6 1.202
-08.0 104 45.08 2227 2479 43516 6608 90.8 1.166
-06.0 106 46.06 2279 2595 46619 6775 91.9 1.130
-04.0 109 47.04 2331 2714 49972 6935 92.9 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 111 48.02 2383 2836 53612 7086 93.9 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 113 49.00 2435 2963 57562 7228 94.8 1.031 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 115 49.98 2488 3092 61861 7360 95.7 1.000 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 118 50.96 2541 3225 66552 7482 96.4 0.970 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 120 51.94 2594 3361 71679 7592 97.1 0.940 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 122 52.92 2647 3502 77312 7689 97.8 0.912 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 125 53.90 2701 3645 83503 7773 98.3 0.884 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 113 49.00 2564 3284 68563 7275 99.1 0.958 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 113 49.00 2271 2577 47583 6823 86.8 1.124

M70 has a 22" barrel. I just looked and my BLR was getting 2463 fps. Either kills deer and I never noticed a difference.

I appreciate the quickoad data. And yes, having 3lbs is a good reason. I also have 3lbs of TAC on hand, haha.

RC,
I think I've posted data for TAC and the 358 and 225 bullets before. As I recall, the user reported results like those above. Due to some older rifles, the SAAMI specs on the 358 are on the low side, but I trust that you know your rifle and can decide upon appropriate pressures for your situation.

Here's the QL for TAC and the 255 Sierra:

Instead of trying to decide between the powders I’m going to load up some of each. I’m thinking maybe loading with each up to 49 grains and working up with the chronograph and seeing what I’ve got velocity and accuracy wise. I appreciate all of the responses.

I look forward to your results!

I went to the range this morning and left kinda disappointed. I didn’t get the velocity I was hoping to get from either powder. I won’t post all the data but instead I’ll jump to the highest powder charge of each.

With 49 grains of TAC 3 shots averaged 2389 FPS. All 3 groups of my testing with this powder averaged .875” @ 100 yards.

With 48.9 grains of IMR 4320 3 shots averaged 2348 FPS. All 3 groups of my testing with this powder averaged 2” @ 100 yards.

This was fired from my steel receiver BLR with a 20” barrel. The temperature was in the mid to low 30’s.

The accuracy with the TAC was fantastic. I just didn’t quite get the numbers I was wanting velocity wise.

The primers with the TAC show I can go a little farther with the charge if I so wish but I’m not sure I wish to. Being in the mid 30’s temperature wise how much of a velocity increase could I expect if say the temperature was 50 degrees? If that would equate to 20 FPS I’d be over the 2400 mark with the 49 grains of TAC and I’d be satisfied.

Maybe I’ll work up to 50 grains with the TAC.....the primers are ever so slightly backing out of the cases. Like maybe .001” or .002”. Perhaps I need to wait until it’s warmer and repeat the 49 grain charge.

I know the deer I hunt won’t know the difference, but I will. It’s hard being so damn picky, haha.

I just joined this forum. I shout a Ruger Hawkeye 358 stainless. I’m still playing with the loads but likes 3031. I would like to try TAC but it’s been difficult to find a 1 lb canister locally. I like the info y’all have and good to see fellow 358ers out there.

Upon further examination the primers I thought were backing out a touch are in fact not. I believe that is just those particular primers (fed 215). I’m going to go back to the range in the morning and repeat my 49 grain TAC load with Remington 9 1/2 Mag primers and CCI 250. If all goes well with 49 grains with those primers I’m going to bump up to 49.5 and see how the velocity and accuracy is.

Tac is too slow burning in 20" carbine barrels. I've put away thousands of lbs of moose n caribou meat with 358 winchester handloads over the past 18 years.

Alliant Reloader 10x is my powder of choice. Though I always use 20 inch barrels, luke (ak_lance) on here was getting 2400 fps from a 16 inch barreled kimber montana using 225 grain bullets.

Don't use mag primers with reloader 10x.

10x also gave better velocity in my 20 inch barreled 41-9.3x62 wildcat over TAC.

Like your primers backing out at 49 grains under a 225, that's on par with what I've experienced with TAC: excessive pressure signs with mediocre velocity. In the 41 wildcat, I had extra recoil as well.

Using the mighty 41 wildcat, with a high-end slow motion camera, TAC loads actually recoiled the rifle out of my hands as the rifle compressed my heavy winter clothes. Faster burning AA 2230 and 10x loads recoiled less.

Not a concern with the 358 but was interesting for my crew and I to obeserve the footage when sigting in for a winter hunt by dog team.

Went back to the range this morning with some different primers. I also kept the loaded rounds in my truck until it was time to shoot them as it was 32 degrees outside this morning. Yesterday they sat beside me on the bench. I have no idea if that makes any difference as far as velocity goes but it was something to try.

With Remington 9 1/2 Magnum primers I averaged 2405 FPS @ 49 grains of TAC and 2411 FPS @ 49.5 grains. Accuracy was horrendous with 2-2.5” groups @ 100 yards. The primers looked great.

With CCI 250’s I averaged 2399 FPS @ 49 grains of TAC and 2418 FPS @ 49.5 grains. The primers looked great and the accuracy was 1 1/8” and 1 3/4”.

I only shot 3 shot groups just to get an idea of velocity and accuracy.

I think if I were shooting on a 50 degree day my velocity’s would look more like 2430-2450 FPS with the 49.5 grain charge and that’s what I was after. The deer won’t know the difference but I will. The primers look so good I wouldn’t be afraid to shoot on a warm 65 degree day either.

I’m going to keep my eyes peeled for some Reloader 10x to try based on Mainers findings and if I do I’ll post the data I get with it. Thanks for all the responses.

Now onto playing with a 35 Remington and seeing if I can squeeze 2150-2,200 FPS out of it.

After a certain point in velocity try shooting something alive like moose, elk, brown bear, Rudolph the red nosed reindeer, or something big and tell us how it did. At least a whitetail. I do think Mainer is right. But I have had so many one shot DRTs on Whitetails that my 4064 and Varget need to be depleted first. But when I get serious about big things that can scratch back I will use the Nosler BT. If that ever lacks I will go to the Barnes TTSX. It works in my 458 SOCOM and looks good in the advertisements. But the Noslers just work, old tech and all. Be Well, RZ.

Rockchucker83,

I'd say you're good with the TAC, 11 fps under 2400 fps out of a 20' barrel and good accuracy. I'd take it. I threw a rock through my chrony at 70 fps to show how insignificant these numbers are when we're talking bullets going thousands of feet per second.

I entered your 20" barrel length in QL with TAC and it put 49.0 at 2366 fps and about 55K pressure, that's pretty close. If I bump it to 50.0 grns it shows an increase in pressure of 4k pressure to 59K but only a velocity gain only to 2418...not worth it IMO. I adjusted your burn rate to IMR4320 and got 2407 fps with 50.0 grns at 56K pressure.

That’s good information to know. I settled on the 49.5 grain charge (for now). If the QL data shows 55k @ 49 grains and 59k @ 50 grains I should be at about 57k at 49.5 grains.

QL was still up on my laptop so I adjusted for your average velocity with your 49.5 grns. It gave me 58,667K.

tag

Haven’t ran mine across my chrono, but you’re right, for what I use mine for, 75 FPS ain’t shiit, and it hurts stuff...

It’s hard to find powder any where.

FWIW, my 358 win load with 225 SBT’s is with Varget. I originally worked up a load without Chrono and then picked one up. Tested my original lot of powder and a new lot. Ran a ladder test and settled on a load in the middle. I’m still lusting after testing with TAC based on John Barsness’s article in Handloader which shows 2550 with TAC and 225 SBT. My testing data is below. Savage Model 11 with 22” rebored from 308 by JES. Hornady brass with Win Large Rifle primer. 2.76” COL

Current lot

47.6. 2401
48.1 2439
48.6 2445

New lot

47.6 2425
47.8 2418
48.0 2437
48.2 2437
48.4 2448
48.6 2445
48.8 2444
49 2473

Load with 48.5 +/- 0.1gn

While I shoot a .35 Whelen and not a .358 I have found IMR 4064 gives the best accuracy with 225gr. Sierra Game Kings and IMR 3031 gives outstanding accuracy with 200gr. Hornady Inter-lok RN bullets. Both loads/bullets perform great on whitetails out to 125yds. in my experience, should perform just as well in .358.

I was just loading some 358 loads. I had different cases. Some were from military 308 and some were Winchester. I had others but these two stuck out. I tried some printed TAC loads in the Winchester and the powder charge came up to the base of the neck in the Winchester case. The same powder charge in the military case came up to nearly the top of the neck. I poured out powder in the military case until the level of powder was the same as the fully loaded Winchester case. The difference in powder (TAC) weights was 3 grains.

Be careful in using the same brass as what the author used. If the author doesn't state what primers/cases/bullets he/she used, be careful when using their incomplete data!