I am having a hard time reloading 308 military brass. I have around 400 rounds. What I have reloading only about half will cycle. I ran some through a standard die, then used a Lee full length resizing die. I trimmed the length. I de-crimped the primer pockets. Then I can't even close the bolt on my bolt rifle (Ruger 77) nor close the bolt on a BLR Browning lever.

I'm thinking the necks aren't sized right or the base is too wide. They go in except the last little bit. I can't see inside my gun so I'm not sure what to do.

I know the military brass is thicker, but I've never had this problem with .223 military brass.

Any ideas?
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Color a case with a magic marker and try to chamber it. That should show you where it is over sized.

I had a similar problem when using a Lyman shellholder in a RCBS press with RCBS dies.

Sounds like the full length die needs to be turned down a bit.

In some extreme cases brass fired from machine guns with worn chambers need some extra sizing via a small base die, but it's actually kind of rare. Generally, the two quotes above will help you trouble shoot and solve your problem.

If you didn’t have much to trim you most likely didn’t size them enough. A lot of LC once fired is most likely machine gun brass. Their chambers are on the large side of SAAMI to make sure the gun cycles in most conditions.

If you weren’t measuring 2.020 or near that you didn’t size them enough. Run your die until the ram/ shell holder cams when pressing against the die. Or get a set of small base dies. I have been there. I feel your pain.

Run one of then hard to chamber cases up the size die with the die turned down some more try chambering again, if you have to turn die down, do it again. Don't go by the instructions on these dies that say turn die down until contact with shell holder. Some times you have to turn it down until it makes solid contact through the cycle past cam-over. Machine gun brass will fatten out again when you pull it out of the die, try raising and lowering the case a few times. You'll get er.

It must have been machine gun brass. I've never had this problem with any other reloading. I've reloaded thousands of pistol and rifle calibers. I measured and trimmed to proper length, ran through two different sizing dies. I've never had this problem with commercial brass.

Would anneling the cases, then sizing them help?

I got a bush basket of 308 brass - military. I had similar problems. I bought a small base die. Still same problems. I talked to a RCBS technician. He told me to set the full length sizing die 1/4 turn past touching the shell holder. That did the trick. I didn't have to resize that way after that. Evidently the brass was shot with a M60. The base was too wide.

NO...

As said, Small Base Die, or other alternative would be a body die, and do the 1/4 turn camming effect on the brass...
Pocket swager from Dillon...for the military primer crimp.
Then also do neck via a 308 Lee Collet Neck Sizing die.

Simple solution, you just evidently don't have the right dies for the application..

Your biggest problem is probably the .200 line on your brass is big, a small base die will help but I would be careful doing the 1/4 turn cam over to many times some dies can push the shoulder back .010 or more and to many times doing that you will be getting a case separation.
A comparator will tell you how far your pushing the shoulder back.

DD, Some 7.62 chambers are long enough to essentially ruin brass on the first firing. And brass spring-back is a thing. Well.....unless you're sizing just enough to rechamber in that particular 7.62 MG.

People approach the MG brass conundrum in different ways, as you've read. Here's what I do.

I use a LE Wilson case gauge. Every piece of bulk-purchase (possibly MG fired) brass gets checked in the gauge before any processing. Can do it by feel, watching TV (if there's anything on). But the check is step one. Any pieces that are badly overstretched are culled. How much stretch? Usually pieces over 10 thou above max shelf (often they're more like 20 thou) will stand out from the rest. Suppose you could have a batch that are all no good, but haven't yet.

If you want to try and rehab the long ones, sort them by degree of stretch and try a few.

Anyway, you can use a std FL die to FL size the "good" pieces, which will most likely chamber in in any .308 Win.

My rationale. No matter what is done to make a badly overstretched case fit a somewhat spec .308 chamber, there's an incipient separation waiting to happen. Might be first reload, might be fifth. I don't need the aggravation.

Prevention vs cure. JMHO.

OK, thanks guys.

DD,
You got a lot of suggestions there but until you try the simplest (turn your current FL die down some more, such that some force is required to cam over the lever on your press after the die contacts the shellholder) I wouldn't worry over the other stuff.
Probably a good idea to make sure the shellholder and die are of the same brand, if the above doesn't work.

Let us know what your solution turns out to be, if you find one. Good luck with it.

Rex

P.S. of course if the "turn down the die" plan works, then you'll want to back it off until your bolt will just barely close with a little resistance, and that oughta be perfect. But it sounds like you know all that stuff.

I bought a bunch of GI brass that was once fired thru a mg. I cam over sized it and checked all the sized cases in a Dillon case case gauge after I had trimmed to min. and chamfered it.
Any that did not gauge went into one pile and were checked for chambering in my bolt guns, they all chambered. The gauge passed ones are loaded for my AR-10. Works for me.

This post includes a valid warning and a suggestion for the proper tool to prevent setting the shoulder too far back. You'd do well to take this advice.

I shoot a Garand a lot, and if I do the "contact shellholder plus one-quarter turn" I may get 3 loadings out of the brass. Using a comparator to set the shoulder back .002" and annealing every third loading, 20 loadings are quite possible. Same with ARs.

This is done without small-base dies and the rifles run fine.

Possibly of use:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...029/resizing-30-06-base-using-45-acp-die

Get a small base die. I use it on Lake City brass.

A few of you have missed the advise I gave.

I got this from a RCBS technician - Turn the die 1/4 turn past touching the shell holder. That will bring the base into spec. After that size like you normally would. After the first sizing to get the base the correct diameter I set the full length sizing die to almost touch the neck. This has worked in my AR-10 and my 308 bolt guns and my Browning BLR 358 (using 308 military brass).

This "1/4 turn past touching the shell holder to get the base right" advise came from RCBS. It worked for me and that's my recommendation.

And it set the shoulder back on my cases about .010" more than I needed....with RCBS dies.

Case stretch, of course, was a quick killer of case life.

Then you set it to deep, set the die deeper than needed to chamber in your rifle, do it to see if you can turn it down far enough to see ifn it works..
if the die won't go down any more and it won't cam over either. start over.

Get your cases to chamber if possible don't use em yet, then back off the die just so it chambers, then turn down a bit more.
Check headspace with any kind of device that fits over the neck and butts up about midway on the shoulder, lots of things work for this.

He's got a bolt action, he can set it pretty tight.
I"m with Hanco if I'm having problems like this BS get SB dies. you will like em if you use military brass a lot.

I know all that.

What I'm saying is that the "contact and quarter turn" recommended by the manufacturer of the die moved the shoulder back too far. What I simply did after that was use a comparator to measure shoulder set back, giving it about .002" room instead of a quarter-mile. That greatly extended the life. I know the chamber is in spec, I cut it and headspace gauges confirm it. The people who made the dies gave bad information.

When you fire about 2000 rounds a year, you'd like your brass to last, especially .30-06, it's not surplus any more.

I had been doing that for my ARs, both precision and the ones with 5.56 chambers, and the majority of the brass I use in these rifles is Lake City once-fired brass which is of military origin.

My press will cam over, and in no instance have I ever had to go a quarter turn to get the .002" I want, more like just past contact.

The exception may be my .45-70.....

That die setting that moves the shoulders of perfectly good brass 10 thou will fail to move the shoulder of an overstretched piece sufficiently. This is exactly what is being described.

Because springback. Folks tend to think dies move all pieces the same at a particular setting. Not so.

Which leaves you wondering if you need a SB die. So you can move shoulders......probably less. But works the brass more. Which shortens brass life on the good pieces that didn't need a SB die. The overstretched pieces then fit in your gun......great!!........whoops partial separation on first fire???

Cull the overstretched pieces first. Then you won't need a SB die. Then you can use your die to bump shoulders just enough. Then you won't have short brass life.

A case gauge can save you a lot of grief by checking your brass. Turn your FL die down 1/4 turn at a time and try chambering the resized case. I've had to do this with once fired brass that was fired in another rifle. Another thing you can try is running your brass through a 45acp carbide die to squeeze the base of the case at the web area.

Wouldn’t a slightly shorter shell holder do the same as a small base die? I have never used SB dies so I am asking.
One could file or grind down the top to allow shorter case sizing.
I have found there is a lot of difference in shell holder heights even of the same brand, which effects the case sizing.

You can push the case up farther but that will push the shoulder down, you are trying to get the bottom of the case sized.
I have been using SB dies a long time in 223, I reuse cases many times. Check inside web with a paper clip. Don't make to much of SB dies.
Op also uses a BLR all the more reason to get a SB die and be done with it. A BLR needs cases to fit without being tight or it wont cycle.
Also it would be tough to extract a half stuck case in the chamber out in the sticks. In the BLR I would just use new brass with SB die.

Some shellholders can be ground a bit. Too much and you have a stuck case. Someone on another board found 5 thou was all of it.

SB dies don't necessarily bump the shoulder more, maybe even less due to displacement of brass from below. Dies vary, just like chambers tho. One of my SB dies bumps the shoulder exactly same as the standard FL die. But not more.

I used a black marker on a case and it showed marks about 1/2" up from the base, so the case is bulged. I ordered a small based die and am going to resize them. I used a standard die, and a full length sizing die on every case, still won't load in my rifle. I also trimmed the case length. It obviously is bulged and has spring back from the standard dies. Hopefully the small based die will size them to the minimum tolerance and if there is spring back it will not exceed the maximum tolerance. Will try one more time.

Good luck to ya. You done right.
It's not unheard of to have to throw some machine gun brass away. If they are blown out that bad you won't trust to fire them anyway.
I had a BLR very nice rifles, the case needs to be sized to minimum specs to give trouble free function.
I have 50 brand new 308 cases to get you started for what I paid, if you need em holler.

what was the fit like for the unsized cases in your chamber?
would they slide in as if you were hand loading a single round?
or hang up partially inserted?

It's time to take some measurements. Get the SAAMI diagram for .308, and you calipers, and start measuring everything you can, especially on the rounds that won't chamber. You will likely find some dimension that, even after resizing, is larger than SAAMI max cartridge. You will likely have to adjust your sizing setup, or may even have a faulty sizer but that seems unlikely.

If you convince yourself that all dimensions are correct, then you have to contemplate the possibility that some dimension of the chamber is smaller than SAAMI min chamber (which will hold the max cartridge of course). That requires a chamber cast to investigate.

+1 on the small base dies. I use it on all my 7.62 reloads. Check the rounds in a Lyman checker block.

Similar and I would add that whenever I've had a problem with semi autos, bolts (usually.older Mausers) or single shot rifles it's because I didn't size them correctly. I either full length sized them and push the shoulders back too far or neck sized them and had chambering issues.

To fix my issues, I fully prepped the cases (clean, deprimed, size and trimmed) but when I sized them I did a partial full length size. That mostly fixed my issues for all actions except semi automatics. With those, an ammo checker and or comparer tool has kept me honest. Never had a problem after that.

Sierra Bulletsmiths will tell you (cause they are always telling me) all reloading should be done using a PFLS method.

HaYen

I didn't think anything about it but reloaded 100 rounds that won't work. AND I crimped the case, so pulling bullets is a pain. I have 300 more cases, but will only try to drop the empty cases in my bolt gun and if it closes and chambers and ejects them, I know they will work. It is time consuming, but hate to waste 300 rounds of brass.

I'm going to try the kinetic bullet puller on the others, as the die puller just will not work. Hate to waste the bullets (fmj) and powder. worse case will use a copper tubing cutter to destroy the cases to get the powder and try to get the bullets out, maybe with a Drimmil tool after cutting them open.

The only time I have needed a small base sizer die was for .308 military brass that I had acquired to feed my son's FAL. Using a regular sizing die did not work, so I tried a small base die that a cousin had bought for use in a .308 lever rifle. It took well lubed cases and a lot of pressure, but the cases came out useable and have not needed the small base die ever again.

@dixie_Dude I use the RCBS Collet bullet puller. To me it's a lot less fustrating than pounding the crud out of the kinetic. I also break the crimp first using a seating die (seat to loaded round than back out one full turn if the die; seat the stem on the bullet and add 1/8 of a turn). Breaking the crimp makes it easier to pull.

Thanks for the tip on the small based die. Got it in and worked some through. Some were really hard so I worked them, re-lubed and worked them in again until I could work them all the way in and out a couple of times. Anyway, they load fine in my rifle now.

I have a RCBS Collet bullet puller. I'm not sure what you mean HaYen? Seat the loaded round in seating die first? Are you saying push the bullet in more, then it will come out?

Yes push the bullet in a bit with yer seating die before trying to take the bullet out, it breaks the grip of the case on the crimp. Then pull the bullet.
ESP. if using a hammer puller.